Why hasn't Christ returned yet?

[stevenfrancis]

I am not supposed to wait around for the end of the world. I am supposed to be living life one day at a time. More than 2,000 years passed since Christ ascended. Some thought Nero was the antichrist as he was part of the plot to kill anyone who confessed Christ. There have been many such people since. None of this brings about the resurrection. Heaven is when God overcomes all difficulty to reveal new creation. That is when Christ's return will be apparent.

This is true. The PERSONAL judgement, and our trial could be at any given second. The GENERAL judgement, and all that precedes it is okay to study a bit, but not make a lifestyle out of. If it detracts in some way from our personal walk with Christ, then it is a stumbling block rather than an aid to sanctity and salvation.

 

[stephen583]

If it detracts in some way from our personal walk with Christ, then it is a stumbling block rather than an aid to sanctity and salvation.

The Bible says, the Spirit of Jesus Christ, is the "Spirit of Prophecy", (Revelations 19:10). How can studying the prophecies of Christ detract from anyone's salvation in any way ? In fact, I read the exact opposite of that claim. The Revelation itself states explicitly, every Christian who reads and hears the Revelation, is Blessed, (Revelation 1:3).

What on earth are you guys teaching people ?

 

[Berean777]

The time of Christ's coming coincides with The Parable of the Workers in the Vineyard and the statement......

So the last will be first, and the first will be last

If we understand who the first workmen should have been who later become the last, then we know that their calling within the Great Commission context will coincide with the coming of Christ at the end of the harvest before the seventh trumpet is sounded and time no longer declared by the Lord.

The first are the sons of Jacob who are the symbol of the prodigical son who ended up selling his inheritance and going to a far country.

The remnant of Israel that will be saved according to Paul is towards the end, where they finally coming in as the 11th hour workmen within the great commission context.

When Jews as a race start to embrace Christ Jesus and preach the gospel within the great commission context, then this time period is the final hour.

How long the final hour will be, is depended on the events that lead to their persecution.

When the Jews come on board as the remnant then He will come.

 

[Wolf_Says]

I am sure it has been stated, but nobody knows when Jesus will return because nobody fully understands God's plan.

 

[stevenfrancis]

The Bible says, the Spirit of Jesus Christ, is the "Spirit of Prophecy", (Revelations 19:10). How can studying the prophecies of Christ detract from anyone's salvation in any way ? In fact, I read the exact opposite of that claim. The Revelation itself states explicitly, every Christian who reads and hears the Revelation, is Blessed, (Revelation 1:3).

I'm not speaking of Christians with a healthy curiosity about the end times, just to be clear. I am speaking of those who I have met, read, seen movies by, heard on a radio/podcast/internet site specifically for "reading the signs of the times", who have taken Christian eschatology, (which IS important...please don't take me wrong), and elevated it above all other Christian thought and devotion. Obsession about anything to the point where one may become neglectful of some other aspect of Christian life and devotion to the workings of the Holy Spirit within one's life can lead to making an idol of the "the last things", as one can make an idol of wealth, health, entertainment, sex, substances etc.. St. John, closes his First letter to us with this exhortation: " 20 We can be sure, too, that the Son of God has come to us, and has given us a sense of truth; we were to recognize the true God, and to live in his true Son. He is true God, and eternal life. 21 Beware, little children, of false gods. (also "keep yourself from idols" in other translations).

What on earth are you guys teaching people ?

I liked your post, and am quite comfortable with honest dialog and debate on any subject. It would have been better, perhaps if you could have avoided this unnecessary swipe at the Church, (assuming that is what is meant by "you guys")

If you meant, in sincerity, "Where can I find the actual teachings of the Church regarding eschatology?", then I would recommend beginning with the Catechism of the Catholic Church, which will then lead you to the source materials, including the scriptures, Church Fathers, Doctors of the Church, and Magesterial documents. My personal statement wasn't on eschatological doctrine itself. It was more of small tap on the shoulder to those who may be tempted or inclined to go so far into eschatological doctrine as to have it become a spiritual problem for them. Whether this is happening to any given individual or not, is of course between them and our blessed Lord. But it's worth taking to prayer periodically.

May the God of all consolation deeply bless and keep you.

Steven

Christian Eschatology: http://www.scborromeo.org/ccc/p1s2c2a7.htm

 

[Job8]

Prophecies regarding the return of Christ remain unfulfilled

Two reasons: (1) The fulness of the Gentiles has not come into the Church and (2) sin and evil have not reached the point where God's wrath is poured out.

Here is what the Lord says: And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come. (Mt 24:14).

 

[Job8]

I am sure it has been stated, but nobody knows when Jesus will return because nobody fully understands God's plan.

God's plan is not really complicated: (a) purge the earth from all sin and evil and (b) establish the New Heavens and the New Earth.

 

[Berean777]

Two reasons: (1) The fulness of the Gentiles has not come into the Church and (2) sin and evil have not reached the point where God's wrath is poured out.

Here is what the Lord says: And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come. (Mt 24:14).

Add to this list the 11th hour workmen who are the sons of Jacob.

 

[Archie the Preacher]

Short explanation.

God isn't ready yet. When He is, we'll all hear about it.

 

[stephen583]

Short explanation.

God isn't ready yet. When He is, we'll all hear about it.

"Those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music" Friedrich Nietzsche.

Short answer. God is ready, and he IS Returning.

 

[Archie the Preacher]

Short answer. God is ready, and he IS Returning.

He has not returned yet. Which means He is not ready, yet. (Or maybe "Feels like it" instead of "ready", in common meaning.) He will return without question, although probably not on anyone's (human) timetable.

So, either I'm not understanding your statement correctly, or you are claiming to have special insider information about God's plans ("God is ready") not available to the rest of us.

 

[JohnRabbit]

I am sure it has been stated, but nobody knows when Jesus will return because nobody fully understands God's plan.

i don't see how, because it's fully laid out in scripture!

we may not know when, but God has given us a pretty good guideline, (prophecy and study/observe the holy days).

i guess some people don't realize that one of the functions of prophecy/holy days observance is to give the christian hope and aid to overcoming the world.

this is only one way God is looking out for the christian today!

 

[Archie the Preacher]

i don't see how, because it's fully laid out in scripture!

This reminds me of two things.

One. Of all the people on Earth who should have seen the coming of the Messiah, the Pharisees are them. They studied, discussed, pored over and debated all the Law and the Prophets constantly. They missed, not just a little, but ridiculously. (In modern metaphor, they didn't just not win the race, they couldn't get the engine to fire over.)

Of course, 'we' can do better.

Two. I cannot begin - and don't wanna - to count and list all the men, women, children and other who have set a date for the Return. There have been - ah - several. So far, not one has been right. "...it's fully laid out in scripture!" said ALL of them. They've all been wrong. Jesus Christ has not returned. Nor has He sent a message explaining the delay. No updates. Not even a postcard.

Of course, 'we' can do better.

***********************
There are two (again with the two thing) things to avoid about the Coming of Jesus and the end of the age.

One is get so wrapped around the axle about it one cannot think of anything else or serve in any other capacity. (See any of those?)

Two is to pretend it isn't coming at all and - well - never mind.

 

[Achilles6129]

Two reasons: (1) The fulness of the Gentiles has not come into the Church and (2) sin and evil have not reached the point where God's wrath is poured out.

Here is what the Lord says: And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come. (Mt 24:14).

I think that Mt. 24:14 is talking about the two witnesses.

 

[stephen583]

So, either I'm not understanding your statement correctly, or you are claiming to have special insider information about God's plans ("God is ready") not available to the rest of us.

The ability to hear the Word of God is available to everyone. Signs of the Apocalypse appear daily in the news. Skeptics claim these events represent nothing new, that all these things have happened before in the past. I disagree. They are absolutely wrong. As a student of ancient history, I can prove it. The events happening now have never occurred before in the recorded history of mankind.

(1). Climate Change and Global Warming on a scale that threatens to destroy the world as we know it. A crack has opened up on the Larson C ice shelf and is expanding across Antarctica. When Larson C plunges into the southern ocean, the process will rapidly accelerate, and the entire Eastern ice shelf of Antarctica will soon follow. Anybody see the movie "Day After Tomorrow" ? It was based on this very scenario. Try finding that in the historical record.

(2). Warming of sea temperatures are causing more frequent and intense weather anomalies globally, like the unprecedented huge El Nino (dubbed Godzilla El Nino by climatologists) that has set up over the Eastern Pacific in 2015. Thousand year floods are occurring with increasing frequency all across the globe, accompanied by unprecedented drought threatening to turn India into a desert.

Warming sea temperatures in specific areas (dubbed blobs) are destroying habitats and ecosystems that have been around for tens of thousands of years. Mangrove swamps in Australia and the kelp forests of the California coast are "permanently" disappearing. Last year, dead sea lion pups began washing up on California beaches and sea birds fell out of the sky.

(3). Due to deforestation and pollution effecting our planet, animal species are now disappearing at a rate rivalling the last great extinction event at the end of the Permian age, over 200 million years ago that nearly destroyed all insect life. Try as you might, you won't find any descriptions in the writings of the ancients about global mass extinctions of extant animals, such as the recent die off of honey bees necessary for fertilizing crops. Again, the skeptics are engaging in fiction.

(4). Wars and rumors of wars. Yes... There have always been conflicts between nations. That's true. Have we ever had the capacity to destroy the Earth itself (Revelation 11:18) ? America alone now has a nuclear arsenal capable of turning the entire planet into a heap of ashes 50 times over. I defy anyone to find that described anywhere in the ancient writings of the Romans or the Greeks.

The Spirit of God has returned to the Earth, and very soon he will destroy those who are corrupting the earth and destroying what he created. We forgot we are merely "stewards" of the earth, God never gave us leave to destroy the entire planet at our own peril.

"Those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music" Nietzsche.

The music is the Spirit of God.

For a limited time only, dance instructions are being offered here in the CF eschatology section. Private lessons available by PM. This offer will expire, so act quickly.

 

[Job8]

I think that Mt. 24:14 is talking about the two witnesses.

That would be an assumption (perhaps unreasonable) since there is no mention of "the Gospel of the Kingdom" in Revelation 11. These two witnesses confine their TESTIMONY to Jerusalem and Israel while opposing the Antichrist.

 

[Razare]

Christ comes when the assembly becomes mature... you see, Christians in general, even in Acts and the epistles had not really reached maturity. Read the Book of Revelation on the churches... 2 or 3 were doing decent the rest were not.

until we all reach unity in the faith and in the knowledge of the Son of God and become mature, attaining to the whole measure of the fullness of Christ. - Ephesians 4:13

Where man has this verse wrong is they think it is a teaching on, "I am right, you are wrong, unity means you must agree with me because I am right!"

No... unity happens when you actually seek God, and become like an apostle or disciple like Stephen or Phillip in the Book of Acts. You go around doing miracles, and get divine revelations and visitations from God. When this happens to the body of believers, unity begins to happen because we are all hearing directly from God himself... and God is 1, and those who listen to God closely and follow him daily by divine revelation through the Holy Spirit, those people have unity.

Now if you think this is a pipe dream, then you must assert Paul is a fanciful, wishful thinker and what he was writing in Ephesians 4:13 is not God's word... but it is God's word!

It is God's word, and this has never happened in human history. It is an unfulfilled statement given by Paul. If we understand that Christianity that exited in 200 AD to 400 AD basically operated on the principles of Revelation churches (in terms of being flawed), we can see that even if they had a unified organization, there would have been divisions in the gatherings themselves.

Not to mention the organization itself was intrinsically in violation of following scripture in the Great Commission. Pew sitting, which is what those people did, was not, "Go into all the world and preach the gospel, baptizing and making disciples."

The great commission has nothing to do with pew sitting. When the original assembly of believers in Jerusalem met together before the persecution... before that time they were disobedient to the Great Commission even because they stayed put and taught instead of going into all the world.

Acts 6:4 - but we will give ourselves continually to prayer and to the ministry of the word.”

Everyone today thinks Acts 6:4 sounds like a wonderful thing. It was disobedience. Peter and the apostles had parked their rear ends in Jerusalem and did not go to the ends of the Earth like Jesus said.

So the mature church has not occurred yet. When it spread in the book of Acts, it never arrived at maturity. It was closer to maturity than most believers today... but it wasn't what Paul was talking about. Today God is unifying the assembly once more, and the unity among true believers will occur, and it will be a massive number of believers because when it gets going, all those Christians in pews, who know the voice of Jesus Christ, will see there is a work of God upon the Earth that they can follow. It is like the book of Acts, except with camera phones and video testimonies!

And after Jesus Christ's bride is victorious on Earth, and we have attained to the unity of faith that the Bible describes, then the coming of Jesus Christ can occur.

It can't occur prior to this, otherwise the word of God becomes fanciful, wishful thinking on the part of Paul in Ephesians.

If we're going to pick dates and times as people like to, we have to pick something that matches what the word says must happen. The unity of faith (Ephesians 4:13), must occur, and the glory to glory must occur (2 Corinthians 3:18), and the present temple of God must be greater than the former ... we are God's present temple which must be greater than the works of the 12 apostles and Paul (Haggai 2:9), and we must do the greater works (John 14:12).

Until such things are fulfilled, the end cannot happen, otherwise we void God's word for what men think or wish would happen.

 

[stephen583]

These two witnesses confine their TESTIMONY to Jerusalem and Israel while opposing the Antichrist.

Think so ? I would call that an "unreasonable" assumption. All the Revelation says, is that their testimony will last for one thousand two hundred and sixty days (Revelation 11:3), and then it will end in Jerusalem where they are killed (Revelation 11:8-9).

There is absolutely nothing in the passage that says their entire testimony will take place in Israel, or in Jerusalem. It only tells us where they die and where they are resurrected. For all we know, they may only have been in Jerusalem for a week when that happens.

The only thing we know for certain, is the prophecy will be fulfilled.

 

[stephen583]

I think it's also relevant to ask exactly how these two witnesses are expected to remain in Israel for the entire one thousand two hundred and sixty days ? The standard B-2 visa only permits a visitor to stay in Israel for 90 days. This visa can be extended, but only under certain circumstances. An application for the right of return (Aliya) would involve a conversion to Judaism, which Jesus declared "desolate", (Matthew 23:38, Luke 13:35). So it's totally improbable either of these two witnesses would convert.

An extension can also be granted by the Israeli Foreign mission to religious ministers carrying out official duties related to their congregation. This exemption requires a letter of endorsement from an ecumenical office recognized by Israel.

In the Revelation, the two witnesses are described as the "two olive trees and lampstands" who stand before God, (Revelation 11:4). So it's pretty apparent they "stand alone", and are not sent there on the authority of any other church. In point of fact, no other "lampstands" (churches) are mentioned at this point in the Revelation. So I don't see them getting any letter of endorsement either.

Moreover, their mission is described as being highly "charged and even hated" by the population of Israel. It says after their deaths, the people will not suffer their dead bodies to be buried and they will be left in the street (Revelation 11:9), an act that would be in violation of Judaic law, if it were to be done to any Hebrew. It also says people will celebrate and send each other gifts, rejoicing at the deaths of these two witnesses, (Revelation 11:10).

Under such heated circumstances, I really don't see how either of these witnesses are going to get their visas extended by the Foreign mission of Israel, do you ???

 

[stephen583]

There is one more exception. Under International Law, during war time no foreign national can be compelled to travel when it is unsafe to do so. However, any foreigner forced to remain in a country due to war time conditions would be confined to a specific location, or locations under the protection of their embassy. They wouldn't be walking around the streets of Jerusalem preaching.

I'm sure, if these two witnesses were there under such war time conditions, and they were wandering around Jerusalem illegally, they would be picked up and jailed by the IDF in heartbeat. So I don't see this last scenario being plausible either.