Why has science gone to war with natural selection and evil ution?

[Cabal]

How?

Not enough resources = starvation.

Let me guess, you wanted the "eeebil scientists will suggest we start murdering people" answer or some such guff like that?

 

[AV1611VET]

Neither did we - we don't have senators.

Yes, I know -- I was giving an example from our country.

Are you referring to when Prince Charles and Camilla were attacked in their car?

Yes, and thank you for finding that picture for me.

If so, I don't see what that has to do with the government wanting people to have an education.

Are you serious?

The more people sign up, the more money they make, since they tripled their tuition.

 

[Cabal]

Are you serious?

The more people sign up, the more money they make, since they tripled their tuition.

The whole point of the protests was that Britain has previously operated its third level education system without resorting to tuition fees. The introduction of them in practice would have resulted in less people applying to college in the UK - which is exactly what's happening now. Applications have dropped. The protests occurred because people here actually give a rodent's posterior about it.

Again, thanks for showing your ignorance, and proving your opponent's point

 

[AV1611VET]

Not enough resources = starvation.

Let me guess, you wanted the "eeebil scientists will suggest we start murdering people" answer or some such guff like that?

Rather than butting in to show your ignorance of what WC and I were discussing, why don't you just go back to this post and connect the red dots: 28?

Take your time.

 

[Cabal]

Rather than butting in to show your ignorance of what WC and I were discussing, why don't you just go back to this post and connect the red dots: 28?

Take your time.

I already did. If you connect the dots, the post in question that you weighed in on to show your ignorance was this one:

http://www.christianforums.com/t7613756-2/#post59199447

Again, I already made the point that Malthus and Hitler (the original topic of Delph's discussion) were after two different things, but you seem quite insistent on linking the two. Why is that, exactly?

(Given that howler, you really may want to take your time.)

 

[AV1611VET]

The whole point of the protests was that Britain has previously operated its third level education system without resorting to tuition fees.

If there were no fees, what was tripled?

3 x 0 = 0

 

[AV1611VET]

I already did. If you connect the dots, the post in question that you weighed in on to show your ignorance was this one:

http://www.christianforums.com/t7613756-2/#post59199447

Again, I already made the point that Malthus and Hitler (the original topic of Delph's discussion) were after two different things, but you seem quite insistent on linking the two. Why is that, exactly?

(Given that howler, you really may want to take your time.)

Have a great day, Cabal -- you have no idea what you're going on about; and I'm getting the impression that your zeal to ridicule me is making you look just plain silly.

 

[Cabal]

If there were no fees, what was tripled?

3 x 0 = 0

There was a small level of fees introduced a couple of years before.

Doesn't alter the point though that people were protesting the fee increase because it made higher education more unattainable for many people in this country - as opposed to your "but they'll get more money herp derp" oversimplification.

 

[Wiccan_Child]

Yes, I know -- I was giving an example from our country.

Yes, and thank you for finding that picture for me.

Are you serious?

The more people sign up, the more money they make, since they tripled their tuition.

Educational policies can certainly be criticised, but the government still wants people to be educated. The riots were to protest raised tuition fees, not the abolition of all educational institutions.

 

[Cabal]

Have a great day, Cabal -- you have no idea what you're going on about; and I'm getting the impression that your zeal to ridicule me is making you look just plain silly.

I don't have to even try this time, champ.

I was referring to Delphiki's point about Hitler this entire time. You're the one insisting that Malthus be brought into things - even though, as I have pointed out several times now, the two were after different things.

Far be it from you to, I don't know, establish some justification for insisting that Delphiki meant Malthus rather than Hitler? Call me cynical, just you have a habit of resorting to reductio ad hitlerum when discussing certain scientific topics.

 

[CTD]

It was evolutionism started the war against science. Honest men of science have always sought truth.

Lots of double-talk in the thread, as we expect. Man is said to be just an animal, in order to undermine our dignity and self-respect. Then when the implications are too obvious: "Oh no, man is special, man is exempt. You just don't understand."

What we understand is blatant self-contradiction. Man either is or is not an animal, just like all the rest.

 

[Loudmouth]

It was evolutionism started the war against science.

Evidence please.

Honest men of science have always sought truth.

Then why do creationists ignore the evidence?

Man is said to be just an animal, in order to undermine our dignity and self-respect.

People said the same thing of heliocentrism. They said that removing the Earth from the center solar system was an attempt to undermine the dignity and self-respect of humanity as well. Doesn't change the fact that the Earth moves about the Sun.

Also, you are pushing the naturalistic fallacy. Not a good move on your part.

The only war here seems to be your war against reason, knowledge, and logic.

 

[Wiccan_Child]

It was evolutionism started the war against science. Honest men of science have always sought truth.

Ironically, it was Christian Creationists, seeking evidence for the Biblical myths, that first discovered the true age of the Earth, the falsehood of Noah's Ark, etc.

Lots of double-talk in the thread, as we expect. Man is said to be just an animal, in order to undermine our dignity and self-respect.

The relationship between humans and the other species on Earth is born out by the evidence, not some bizarre attempt to "undermine our dignity and self-respect" - first, why on Earth would we do such a thing? And second, I consider the implications of the theory of common descent to both humble and empower the human species. The world is so much more interconnected and inter-reliant than we ever could have guessed. But, ultimately, the dignity and self-respect a human feels shouldn't derive from his biological origins - it should derive from his own worth, his accomplishments and abilities. Being evolved along with all the other species on Earth does not lessen man's dignity; rather, it emboldens and underlines it.

If your dignity is threatened by scientific knowledge on man's origins, well, that's your business, but don't tell me that my self-respect is denigrated - my ego is not so easily bruised.

Then when the implications are too obvious: "Oh no, man is special, man is exempt. You just don't understand."

What we understand is blatant self-contradiction. Man either is or is not an animal, just like all the rest.

I don't believe there's ever been any indecision on this: it is a firmly established scientific fact that Homo sapiens sapiens are members of the biological taxon Animalia - we are, all of us, animals, related to the other animals.

 

[Freodin]

Lots of double-talk in the thread, as we expect. Man is said to be just an animal, in order to undermine our dignity and self-respect.

Scientists, biologists... "Evolutionists" say that man is an animal.

It is the creationists who change that to "man is JUST an animal".

 

[Psudopod]

Oh, I think we can fend for ourselves.

I just don't understand why these guys on top aren't sharing their knowledge with the guys on the bottom.

I don't think the lack of access to knowledge is the problem though. You could have a fountain of knowledge in each classroom, but it would make no difference if you could get the kids to drink from it.

What's needed is a culture that embraces learning and respects study (terms like "boffin" and "swat" shouldn't be used as insults). We should have the same level of respect for our brilliant thinkers as we do for our sports stars, musicians and actors.

We need to make sure that while information is available, it's availaible to everyone, no matter where they live, or what handicaps they might face. Lots of libraries with internet access, braile books and audio books, learning support for the physically and mentally handicapped.

We need to encorage parents to read to their children and help them study, and make sure they have the time to do it. And we need to make sure there are provisions for those who have parents who can't or won't.

We need to make sure we recruit the best teachers, and then keep them. We need to make sure classrooms are of a suitable size so these teachers can keep control and learn the individual needs of each child, rather than keep piling more and more in. We need to make sure that classrooms have the necessary equipement for children to learn. And we need to make sure lessons are interesting, relevent and engaging.

 

[AV1611VET]

I don't think the lack of access to knowledge is the problem though. You could have a fountain of knowledge in each classroom, but it would make no difference if you could get the kids to drink from it.

What's needed is a culture that embraces learning and respects study (terms like "boffin" and "swat" shouldn't be used as insults). We should have the same level of respect for our brilliant thinkers as we do for our sports stars, musicians and actors.

We need to make sure that while information is available, it's availaible to everyone, no matter where they live, or what handicaps they might face. Lots of libraries with internet access, braile books and audio books, learning support for the physically and mentally handicapped.

We need to encorage parents to read to their children and help them study, and make sure they have the time to do it. And we need to make sure there are provisions for those who have parents who can't or won't.

We need to make sure we recruit the best teachers, and then keep them. We need to make sure classrooms are of a suitable size so these teachers can keep control and learn the individual needs of each child, rather than keep piling more and more in. We need to make sure that classrooms have the necessary equipement for children to learn. And we need to make sure lessons are interesting, relevent and engaging.

All through this post, I had countries like Somalia in mind.

I'm wondering if, rather than just making a demographics of who has the biggest clipboards, any shrewdness of scientists would be willing to go there and build these 'lots of libraries', etc., and train these people, so they can start testing litmus paper, wearing pocket protectors, and programming scientific calculators like in the big league, eh?

Instead of sitting around saying, "Look who's not number one! LOL!"

This is one of the reasons I call you guys Internet scientists, all you do is ook and eek at us Christians, while the world goes to pot.

 

[Psudopod]

All through this post, I had countries like Somalia in mind.

I'm wondering if, rather than just making a demographics of who has the biggest clipboards, any shrewdness of scientists would be willing to go there and build these 'lots of libraries', etc., and train these people, so they can start testing litmus paper, wearing pocket protectors, and programming scientific calculators like in the big league, eh?

While definitely, helping thirdworld countries with schools, healthcare, access to internet etc is something we should be doing, why is it just down to scientists? It something everyone in the devoloped world should be taking a part in, but the right people need to to do the right job. As I said before, most scientists aren't teachers, so sending them to teach in Somalia wouldn't necessarily be the best use of their skills. They wouldn't necessarily know how to build a school or hospital, set up a network infrastructure etc. Might it not be better that they carry on producing knowlege and understanding, while a variety of other people help make sure everyone can access it?

 

[Cabal]

All through this post, I had countries like Somalia in mind.

I'm wondering if, rather than just making a demographics of who has the biggest clipboards, any shrewdness of scientists would be willing to go there and build these 'lots of libraries', etc., and train these people, so they can start testing litmus paper, wearing pocket protectors, and programming scientific calculators like in the big league, eh?

Instead of sitting around saying, "Look who's not number one! LOL!"

This is one of the reasons I call you guys Internet scientists, all you do is ook and eek at us Christians, while the world goes to pot.

I'm sure people try to.

As usual, a big issue hindering progress is religious people thinking they know it all and getting in the way.

The situation there is not that different from the US in that regard.

 

[Wiccan_Child]

All through this post, I had countries like Somalia in mind.

I'm wondering if, rather than just making a demographics of who has the biggest clipboards, any shrewdness of scientists would be willing to go there and build these 'lots of libraries', etc., and train these people, so they can start testing litmus paper, wearing pocket protectors, and programming scientific calculators like in the big league, eh?

Instead of sitting around saying, "Look who's not number one! LOL!"

This is one of the reasons I call you guys Internet scientists, all you do is ook and eek at us Christians, while the world goes to pot.

That's because your only experience of us is through an Internet forum. You have no idea what we do in the real world, just as I have no idea of what you do. For all I know, you could be working in a research lab trying to cure cancer - and for all you know, we could be doing the same. So save us the sanctimonious guilt trip.

 

[AV1611VET]

As usual, a big issue hindering progress is religious people thinking they know it all and getting in the way.

Ya -- we lay down on airstrips and take baby strollers down the runways whenever we think a shrewdness of whitecoats is on board a plane bound for a third-world country to share their knowledge, don't we?