Why Has Evolution Gained Popularity With Christians?

BlackSaab52 · Jul 26, 2005

Critias said:
Have you read that when Jesus comes to judge that many will claim to be His children and come to Him professing that they have done works in His Name and He will tell them 'I never knew you.' ?

Critias said:
Have you read where Paul said 'you started with the Spirit and now have given away to false teachings'?

Have you read that when the Word of God has been planted, Satan comes to take it away?

Are you implying that TE's aren't true Christians? Those who Jesus will say "I never knew you" will be doers of iniquity, not those who have a different interpretation of Genesis. And with how frequently slanderous accusations and half-truths are used in attempting to debunk TE, maybe some YEC's need to look at the plank in their own eye instead of the speck of sawdust in their brother's eye.

InnerPhyre · Jul 26, 2005

Anyone who says there's little or no evidence for evolution is simply walking around with their eyes closed. There are heaps of evidence for evolution. Evolution is scientific fact.

MC1171611 · Jul 26, 2005

InnerPhyre said:
Evolution is scientific fact.

Hmmm...I wonder why it is still referred to as the "Evolution theory" by scientists.

BlackSaab52 · Jul 26, 2005

MC1171611 said:
Hmmm...I wonder why it is still referred to as the "Evolution theory" by scientists.

You obviously don't know what a theory is.

PaladinValer · Jul 26, 2005

It is both.

Fact because it has been observed and therefore cannot be denied.

Theory because we are still learning more about how it works.

Critias · Jul 26, 2005

BlackSaab52 said:
Are you implying that TE's aren't true Christians? Those who Jesus will say "I never knew you" will be doers of iniquity, not those who have a different interpretation of Genesis. And with how frequently slanderous accusations and half-truths are used in attempting to debunk TE, maybe some YEC's need to look at the plank in their own eye instead of the speck of sawdust in their brother's eye.

Why is it, if someone on here answers the question "can a Christian be deceive" by speaking about the verses that say a Christian can be deceived, one gets the above comment.

Look, if I wanted to say TEs are not Christians, I would just say it. I don't worry about how you or another judges me. I worry about how God judges me and from Him I cannot hide. So why try? If I believe it, whole heartly, I would tell you so.

And your last statement on the plank issue, you just have done what you are speaking of, by indirectly accusing me.

Trust me, if I think you are unsaved, I will come right out and tell you so. If I don't say it, I am not thinking it. Sound good?

Critias · Jul 26, 2005

LewisWildermuth said:
Science is not done "in His Name," it is just done so we can learn more about creation.

And TE's are not the ones trying to get the Bible to fit into the Enlightenment period thinking, they are trying to read it as the Spirit meant it to be read when it was originally inspired.

Have you ever applied these verses to yourself? Or do the uncomfortable parts of the Bible only apply to others?

You seem to be getting close to calling the TE's Christianity into question... This is forbiden in the boards rules, please be careful.

ANother of the same type of post...

Lewis, someone asked if Christians can be deceived, I answered it. I did not state what Christians will be deceived, but that Christians can be deceived.

It seems one cannot answer a simple question without others in this forum taking it all personally.

As I said to another here, if I believe TEs are not Christians, I will come right out and tell you. If I don't, you can assume that I don't think this about TEs.

Thank you for your warning on something I did not do. Thank you for indirectly accusing me of something I did not do.

For the record, I hope this is clear enough, and you don't impose your own meaning into what I am saying, I don't think TEs are not Christians.

Can you simply believe what I am saying or do you want to keep accusing me some more?

BlackSaab52 · Jul 26, 2005

Critias said:
Why is it, if someone on here answers the question "can a Christian be deceive" by speaking about the verses that say a Christian can be deceived, one gets the above comment.

Critias said:
Look, if I wanted to say TEs are not Christians, I would just say it. I don't worry about how you or another judges me. I worry about how God judges me and from Him I cannot hide. So why try? If I believe it, whole heartly, I would tell you so.

And your last statement on the plank issue, you just have done what you are speaking of, by indirectly accusing me.

Trust me, if I think you are unsaved, I will come right out and tell you so. If I don't say it, I am not thinking it. Sound good?

If you weren't implying that TE's aren't Christians, then why would you say this?
Have you read that when Jesus comes to judge that many will claim to be His children and come to Him professing that they have done works in His Name and He will tell them 'I never knew you.' ?
I don't have a problem with you saying that Christians are deceived (of course I disagree), but I don't see how what you said doesn't imply that TE's aren't Christians. That seems to me to be slandering TE Christians. If what I just quoted from you didn't mean what I thought it meant, though, then please explain how it doesn't mean that. The only reason that I indirectly accused you of anything was that what I quoted from you seems to be saying that TE's aren't Christians. If I am misunderstanding anything, however, then I apologize for any accusations.

Critias · Jul 26, 2005

Read post #68, were Williams, Richard, says show me where the Bible says Christians can be deceived.

Critias · Jul 26, 2005

BlackSaab, if you want to continue to accuse me, go right ahead. If you don't want to take me for my word, go right ahead.

I told you the truth, you can call me liar and tell me what I think, even when it is not.

BlackSaab52 · Jul 26, 2005

Critias said:
BlackSaab, if you want to continue to accuse me, go right ahead. If you don't want to take me for my word, go right ahead.

Critias said:
I told you the truth, you can call me liar and tell me what I think, even when it is not.

No, I wasn't continuing to accuse you of anything or calling you a liar. I might have misunderstood something you said and I asked for further clarification. The statement I quoted in my last post seemed to be accusing TE's of not being Christians, and I simply wanted further clarification as to whether or not it actually was.

invisible trousers · Jul 27, 2005

Critias said:
I present the Bible, inspired by the Holy Spirit, as my evidence that God created in six days. You may mock, but I would think twice about doing so.

No, you present your own interpretation of genesis which is precisely that--an interpretation. An interpretation which makes God a liar because his written story of creation doesn't match a single piece of evidence on earth.

Meanwhile, in the TE camp, we seem to have an interpretation of the bible which allows God to be consistent.

Regarding YECs questioning the spirituality of people who believe in evolution, I've seen it happen much on this forum, including happening to me. I think it says a lot about someone's arguments and beliefs if they have to resort to ideas like "i'm right i have god on my side because i say so and you're wrong you're with satan!"

Calminian said:
Well let me explain that to you. If modern scientists were to examine a glass of newly supernaturally created wine they would be fooled into believing it was older than it was. How much more would they be fooled into thinking a supernaturally created world fully functioning with an echo system in tact was older than it was. But if those scientists would believe the One who told them these were miraculously created, they wouldn't be fooled at all. No pixie dust required. Just belief in the Word of God.

So God has deceived us into believing our earth is older than it really is and the YEC club (whose supporters do things like lie and be dishonest) are the only who know this?

A deceptive god is not someone who I should be worshipping.

Also I love the implicit "my interpretation = God's and you're all wrong" belief held by YECs. It really takes a lot to equate your intelligence with God's.

Calminian · Jul 27, 2005

invisible trousers said:
So God has deceived us into believing our earth is older than it really is and the YEC club (whose supports do things like lie and be dishonest) are the only who know this?

Hi IT. Let me try to make clear what I've been saying. The mere fact that one is deceived is not evidence that someone was trying to deceive them. I don't know who you mean by "us" but I'm not deceived into believing the world is millions of years old. It doesn't look old to me. It only looks old to you because you're starting with different presuppositions. Your presuppositions determine how you're going to interpret evidence. You see, the Bible is not the only thing that needs to be interpreted. But one thing is for sure, it's a lot easier to interpret.

invisible trousers said:
A deceptive god is not someone who I should be worshipping.

Yes I agree. If God lied about creating the world in six days you should not worship him.

invisible trousers said:
Also I love the implicit "my interpretation = God's and you're all wrong" belief held by YECs. It really takes a lot to equate your intelligence with God's.

Let me take a stab at this interpretation stuff.

Ex. 20:11 For in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day.

In my opinion that means in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. But I probably shouldn't be too dogmatic.

Critias · Jul 27, 2005

invisible trousers said:
No, you present your own interpretation of genesis which is precisely that--an interpretation. An interpretation which makes God a liar because his written story of creation doesn't match a single piece of evidence on earth.

Meanwhile, in the TE camp, we seem to have an interpretation of the bible which allows God to be consistent.

Regarding YECs questioning the spirituality of people who believe in evolution, I've seen it happen much on this forum, including happening to me. I think it says a lot about someone's arguments and beliefs if they have to resort to ideas like "i'm right i have god on my side because i say so and you're wrong you're with satan!"

So God has deceived us into believing our earth is older than it really is and the YEC club (whose supporters do things like lie and be dishonest) are the only who know this?

A deceptive god is not someone who I should be worshipping.

Also I love the implicit "my interpretation = God's and you're all wrong" belief held by YECs. It really takes a lot to equate your intelligence with God's.

Let ask you, is it possible man can be wrong about his/her interpretation of evidence? Is it possible that not all evidence has been accounted for? Is it possible that there are still some floating lies that are interpretations of evidence within science?

Is it possible God did create the universe in six days? If so, why do you call God a liar if He did?

gluadys · Jul 27, 2005

Critias said:
Let ask you, is it possible man can be wrong about his/her interpretation of evidence?

Yes, but this is not probable after 150 years of checking and cross-checking the evidence across mulitple lines of evidence and always finding what is expected and never the reverse.

Is it possible that not all evidence has been accounted for?

Yes and no. It is certain that undiscovered evidence has not been accounted for. All discovered evidence has been accounted for. Scientific theories are always based on discovered evidence and are always accepted provisionally because there is always undiscovered evidence which may, upon discovery, change the scientific perspective.

The problem with creationism is that it does not account for the discovered evidence and that this will still be true when new evidence is discovered.

Is it possible that there are still some floating lies that are interpretations of evidence within science?

Possible, but not likely. However, when scientists start philosophizing about the metaphysical implications of their science, you can get a lot of errors depending on their philosophical preferences.

Is it possible God did create the universe in six days?

No. Not if you mean six chronological solar days.

artybloke · Jul 27, 2005

If so, why do you call God a liar if He did?

Because God has written the methods of his creation into the universe he created. The evidence of an old age for the universe is so over-whelming that if the universe is not old, then what God shows us in the universe through that evidence is wrong. And if God has planted false evidence, then he is lying. Police-officers who do that get sent to jail for perjury.

Critias · Jul 27, 2005

gluadys said:
No. Not if you mean six chronological solar days.

I am curious about this response. Are you saying it is not possible for God do such a thing, which I doubt considering our past conversations. Or are you saying it is not possible because of sciences' understanding of our world?(evolution, age, star light, etc.)

I am sure you believe God can do anything. So if God can, we cannot ever be 100% certain of how our origins came about, do you think it is right to call God a liar if your belief in origins is wrong?

Critias · Jul 27, 2005

artybloke said:
Because God has written the methods of his creation into the universe he created. The evidence of an old age for the universe is so over-whelming that if the universe is not old, then what God shows us in the universe through that evidence is wrong. And if God has planted false evidence, then he is lying. Police-officers who do that get sent to jail for perjury.

You do realize, but such a statement you are accusing God of sinning if your belief in origins is wrong?

gluadys · Jul 27, 2005

Critias said:
Are you saying it is not possible for God do such a thing, which I doubt considering our past conversations.

No. Typically the question posed is "Could God create in six days?"
And the answer to that question is "Of course he could."

But your question was "Is it possible that God did create in six days?"
Given the evidence in creation, the answer to that is a clear "No."

So if God can, we cannot ever be 100% certain of how our origins came about, do you think it is right to call God a liar if your belief in origins is wrong?

My belief in origins is that God created. I have no reason to conclude that belief is wrong.

I also believe that God created a real and knowable world that operates on predictable principles. I have no reason to conclude that belief is wrong.

I conclude from our collective knowledge of this real and knowable world created by God that it was created billions of years ago, and in a way that linked all species through all time through evolution.

That is not a belief. It is a logical conclusion from the evidence. I accept it as true because of the two prior beliefs.

I contend that in order to deny the evidence you must deny at least one of the two prior beliefs.

Would you like to choose which one I should deny?

rmwilliamsll · Jul 27, 2005

Critias said:
You do realize, but such a statement you are accusing God of sinning if your belief in origins is wrong?

her statement has the form and force of a proof by contradiction argument. that is we know God doesn't lie, if you show or believe in a creation with the appearance of age, or better labelled a creation with scars and history, then this belief is false because it denies a fundamental attribute of God, ie His truthfulness.

same argument as the two books of God can not contradict each other. if they do then the human readers of one or the other or both are misreading the books.

.....

Why Has Evolution Gained Popularity With Christians?

If You Are A Christian, Do You Believe In Evolution?

Yes

No

Regular Member

Well-Known Member

Senior Member

Regular Member

Traditional Orthodox Anglican

Critias

Guest

Critias

Guest

Regular Member

Critias

Guest

Critias

Guest

Regular Member

~*this post promotes non-nicene christianity*~

Senior Veteran

Critias

Guest

Legend

Well-Known Member

Critias

Guest

Critias

Guest

Legend

avid reader

Similar threads

Privacy & Transparency

Privacy & Transparency

~this post promotes non-nicene christianity~