Why go to Lourdes?

[bbbbbbb]

On another thread a Catholic poster has announced his plans to make a pilgrimage to Lourdes next month. As a non-Catholic it seems to me to be a rather pointless endeavor, unless -

1. Mary herself has taken up residence there and receives her followers and grants their petitions. or
2. This is the unique location on earth where prayers to Mary ascend to her in heaven. or
3. The history and/or architecture of the place is so attractive as to justify the time and effort expended in the pilgrimage.

I am certain there are other possible reason, as well. I would like to discuss any and all of these and their theological implications.

 

[Kristos]

I think a pilgrimage can as much about the journey as the destination. Some people go to the "Holy Land" aka Israel. It could be argued that this destination is equally pointless.

FWIW - I believe it was St Basil was adamantly against pilgrimages to the holy land...in part because he felt it contradicted the truth of the resurrection...

Most modern pilgrimages are probably related to #3.

 

[concretecamper]

On another thread a Catholic poster has announced his plans to make a pilgrimage to Lourdes next month. As a non-Catholic it seems to me to be a rather pointless endeavor, unless -

1. Mary herself has taken up residence there and receives her followers and grants their petitions. or
2. This is the unique location on earth where prayers to Mary ascend to her in heaven. or
3. The history and/or architecture of the place is so attractive as to justify the time and effort expended in the pilgrimage.

I am certain there are other possible reason, as well. I would like to discuss any and all of these and their theological implications.

I suspect Lourdes is not on your short list of places to visit.

 

[bbbbbbb]

I suspect Lourdes is not on your short list of places to visit.

You would be correct, but it is on the short list of many Catholics. Is it on yours?

 

[concretecamper]

You would be correct, but it is on the short list of many Catholics. Is it on yours?

No, it is not on my list.

However, I have been to St Ann's Cathedral in Quebec. Just one look at all the crutches, braces, and wheel chairs hanging on the walls from people who were cured there would make any skeptic a believer.

 

[MKJ]

Yes, I think Kristos is right.

It is about making a journey with a spiritual goal. Some of it is about prayer, meeting other believers, learning new things. Some of it is about doing things in faith. Sometimes it is about seeing the things others have done in faith.

And, I think because we are physical creatures, we feel very moved by physical things - looking at a building or landscape or street where Christ or some great saint, or Christians from far in the past, also looked or walked, can give us a real sense of the Church as it exists across time. If it is a place where a miracle happened, it is about being in a place where it seems Heaven and earth touched visibly for a moment, something which we know is true but is often invisible to us, and that can be very moving.

 

[bbbbbbb]

Yes, I think Kristos is right.

It is about making a journey with a spiritual goal. Some of it is about prayer, meeting other believers, learning new things. Some of it is about doing things in faith. Sometimes it is about seeing the things others have done in faith.

And, I think because we are physical creatures, we feel very moved by physical things - looking at a building or landscape or street where Christ or some great saint, or Christians from far in the past, also looked or walked, can give us a real sense of the Church as it exists across time. If it is a place where a miracle happened, it is about being in a place where it seems Heaven and earth touched visibly for a moment, something which we know is true but is often invisible to us, and that can be very moving.

Thank you for the excellent response. I have a neighbor who collects Christian relics. I have mixed feelings about his interest, knowing that some of the relics came onto the market under dubious conditions, but I do appreciate his sincere interest in connecting with the physical aspects of the saints.

 

[tadoflamb]

As the person who's making the pilgrimage to Lourdes next month, I'm going to have to let you wonder.

Thanks for your interest, however.

 

[bbbbbbb]

As the person who's making the pilgrimage to Lourdes next month, I'm going to have to let you wonder.

Thanks for your interest, however.

Please let us know how it all goes for you after you return. Thank you.

 

[tz620q]

Please let us know how it all goes for you after you return. Thank you.

I would recommend the movie, "The Way" that was made by Martin Sheen and his son, Emilio Estevez. It starts with a bitter and very worldly man in the character played by Martin Sheen and shows how a pilgrimage changed him.

 

[Kristos]

I would recommend the movie, "The Way" that was made by Martin Sheen and his son, Emilio Estevez. It starts with a bitter and very worldly man in the character played by Martin Sheen and shows how a pilgrimage changed him.

that is a good movie!~ Made me want to go hike the trail

 

[bbbbbbb]

that is a good movie!~ Made me want to go hike the trail

This reminds of a gentleman I met a couple of weeks ago. He is a Buddhist Congregationalist (don't ask me to define or defend his beliefs). He enthusiastically told me about a trek through Nepal he made with his master. It sounded quite interesting, although the spiritual benefit pretty much eluded me. I find Buddhism, in general, to be difficult to grasp.

 

[MKJ]

This reminds of a gentleman I met a couple of weeks ago. He is a Buddhist Congregationalist (don't ask me to define or defend his beliefs). He enthusiastically told me about a trek through Nepal he made with his master. It sounded quite interesting, although the spiritual benefit pretty much eluded me. I find Buddhism, in general, to be difficult to grasp.

I think it is. Back when I was a student, I took a class in the Comparative Religion department. The prof was quite interesting - besides working in that department, he was a physicist. He was also a Hindu, and he felt that eastern religions could be quite difficult for many westerners to conceptualize, because it required thinking in a very different way about certain things.

Anyway - Buddhism is a very interesting religion - like Christianity, it has a very well developed philosophical and theological side.

 

[bbbbbbb]

I think it is. Back when I was a student, I took a class in the Comparative Religion department. The prof was quite interesting - besides working in that department, he was a physicist. He was also a Hindu, and he felt that eastern religions could be quite difficult for many westerners to conceptualize, because it required thinking in a very different way about certain things.

Anyway - Buddhism is a very interesting religion - like Christianity, it has a very well developed philosophical and theological side.

Yes, and it evolved in different cultures, assimilating various aspects of those cultures, really not unlike most religions.

 

[xTx]

You would be correct, but it is on the short list of many Catholics. Is it on yours?

Even though Mary brought me to Jesus - no - I am not drawn to go to Lourdes.

But, I do not deny that miracles can happen anywhere that God CHOSE.

There is nothing wrong with going to Lourdes. Watch out for the swindlers.

A person I know (though not a saint) who has been to Lourdes lives a very good life. Everything is taken cared of all she has to do is choose her attitude. She has a bad attitude sometimes. That is another story.

Would you be one of the persons who will try to 'convert' Catholics to Protestantism by giving them bibles at Lourdes?

And, looking down on the Catholics - looking down at what you think as their 'misconception' of Christianity?

 

[bbbbbbb]

Even though Mary brought me to Jesus - no - I am not drawn to go to Lourdes.

But, I do not deny that miracles can happen anywhere that God CHOSE.

There is nothing wrong with going to Lourdes. Watch out for the swindlers.

A person I know (though not a saint) who has been to Lourdes lives a very good life. Everything is taken cared of all she has to do is choose her attitude. She has a bad attitude sometimes. That is another story.

Would you be one of the persons who will try to 'convert' Catholics to Protestantism by giving them bibles at Lourdes?

And, looking down on the Catholics - looking down at what you think as their 'misconception' of Christianity?

As I said earlier, I have no interest in making piligrimage to Lourdes or anywhere else. Thus, you will not find me handing out Bibles there. I am glad that most Catholics today have Bibles in their homes and that they are permitted to read and to study them. Although many Catholics do not, I encourage them to do so. If the Lord leads them to work within the Catholic Church as believers in Christ, that is perfectly fine with me. As an old friend of mine used to say, "After we die all our labels will either burn off or fall off."

 

[xTx]

As I said earlier, I have no interest in making piligrimage to Lourdes or anywhere else. Thus, you will not find me handing out Bibles there. I am glad that most Catholics today have Bibles in their homes and that they are permitted to read and to study them. Although many Catholics do not, I encourage them to do so. If the Lord leads them to work within the Catholic Church as believers in Christ, that is perfectly fine with me. As an old friend of mine used to say, "After we die all our labels will either burn off or fall off."

Actually - in case you change your mind - about making pilgrimages.

You can go to the nearest Catholic church called Our Lady of Lourdes.

Same thing. Except not as 'exotic' as the one in France.

An acquaintance of mine actually went to Lourdes to hand out bibles to Catholics.

And, she being very smart - made comments to me - like Catholics are very dump - since Jesus has risen from the dead - why do Catholics still nail Jesus to the cross and call it a crucifix. My reaction

Coming from someone who hands bibles to Catholics (shakes head).

Thank God for the Internet. I survive on online bibles

Oh, did you know - I needed a bible to carry around - and God knows that - I went to a shop - the lady told me no they do not have bibles with just the new testament (I was studying the new testament) - the lady went nobody reads just the new testament bla bla bla - guess what? I found a light weight only new testament bible at an affordable price. Coincidence or miracle!

Yup, all our titles will mean nothing after we are dead. True.

Great sharing. Thanks bbbbbbb.

what if the lights go out and we find ourselves in the matrix - oh dear.

 

[Rhamiel]

it could be the history of the site is attractive

it could also be, that like in John chapter 5
God, in His total freedom, decides to heal people in a particular location
many people go to Lourdes hoping to be healed

 

[bbbbbbb]

it could be the history of the site is attractive

it could also be, that like in John chapter 5
God, in His total freedom, decides to heal people in a particular location
many people go to Lourdes hoping to be healed

I agree and wonder why God doesn't simply heal people elsewhere. I do feel quite sorry for bedridden people who cannot physically travel - either to Lourdes or to secular healing places like the Mayo Clinic.

 

[Rhamiel]

the same question could be asked about the pool mentioned in John 5

as humans, we look at things as accidents, but God knows everything
so we should try to trust in Him