Why faith

theanticrash · Feb 22, 2018

Why did God make it so we would have to believe in him with no evidence? Why did he make it so we would have to believe in him unseen?

If you just say that "God has made himself known through what he has created" I would have to say, does nature prove that your particular God was it's designer?

I'm after the designer.

mukk_in · Feb 22, 2018

theanticrash said:
Why did God make it so we would have to believe in him with no evidence? Why did he make it so we would have to believe in him unseen?

If you just say that "God has made himself known through what he has created" I would have to say, does nature prove that your particular God was it's designer?

I'm after the designer.

He's given us the evidence, His Son, Jesus of Nazareth .

iEye · Feb 22, 2018

18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hinder the truth in unrighteousness; 19because that which is known of God is manifest in them; for God manifested it unto them.

20 For the invisible things of him since the creation of the world are clearly seen, being perceived through the things that are made, [even] his everlasting power and divinity; that they may be without excuse:

theanticrash · Feb 22, 2018

mukk_in said:
He's given us the evidence, His Son, Jesus of Nazareth .

This is something I have to believe, it's not like I have ever proven Jesus is or was Gods son.

theanticrash · Feb 22, 2018

iEye said:
18 The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of people, who suppress the truth by their wickedness, 19 since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. 20 For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse.

I covered that answer, personally I do not suppress the truth.

mukk_in · Feb 22, 2018

theanticrash said:
This is something I have to believe, it's not like I have ever proven Jesus is or was Gods son.

One doesn't have to prove Jesus. Jesus proved Himself. We may not have seen Him, but others have. His indwelling Holy Spirit in me is the proof that He's real .

Norbert L · Feb 22, 2018

theanticrash said:
Why did God make it so we would have to believe in him with no evidence? Why did he make it so we would have to believe in him unseen?

If you just say that "God has made himself known through what he has created" I would have to say, does nature prove that your particular God was it's designer?

I'm after the designer.

We do have evidence, that around 500 people witnessed the bodily resurrection of Jesus. Naturally it's the kind of evidence people can find reasons to object to, but so far it's still around for people of future generations to examine and come to their own conclusion.

theanticrash · Feb 22, 2018

mukk_in said:
One doesn't have to prove Jesus. Jesus proved Himself. We may not have seen Him, but others have. His indwelling Holy Spirit in me is the proof that He's real .

I remember when I first became a Christian I felt a lot of different feelings. One day I was walking up a long dusty road and I was very depressed, I was thinking of my daughter who I had not seen for years.
I called out to God "Lord, Lord!" I need you, and then I felt a burning love enter my heart.

I said to myself "Thank you Lord, I know you are with me."

But the feeling didn't stay for long, and I called out to God again, it did not come back. Many times I felt this love here and there, but it was inconstant.

I now know what and why I felt those feeling's all those years, I know it wasn't a spirit.

Can you guess who it was?

iEye · Feb 22, 2018

“But I don't want comfort. I want God, I want poetry, I want real danger, I want freedom, I want goodness. I want sin.”
...
“There was a thing called Heaven; but all the same they used to drink enormous quantities of alcohol."
...
"There was a thing called the soul and a thing called immortality."
...
"But they used to take morphia and cocaine."
...
"Two thousand pharmacologists and biochemists were subsidized in A.F. 178."
...
"Six years later it was being produced commercially. The perfect drug."
...
"Euphoric, narcotic, pleasantly hallucinant."
...
"All the advantages of Christianity and alcohol; none of their defects."
...
"Take a holiday from reality whenever you like, and come back without so much as a headache or a mythology."
...
"Stability was practically assured.”
Aldous Huxley, Brave New World

Hieronymus · Feb 22, 2018

theanticrash said:
Why did God make it so we would have to believe in him with no evidence?

No evidence??
How is someone supposed to get convinced when there is no evidence?

Why did he make it so we would have to believe in him unseen?

Ah, you mean "proof" rather than evidence.

If you just say that "God has made himself known through what he has created" I would have to say, does nature prove that your particular God was it's designer?

I think it is quite obvious that there was a creator at the time of the emergence of our common reality, including living nature.
As for a personal signature of God (the one from the Bible), "the heavens declare the glory of God".
Here's an interesting podcast:
it's a bit long though..

I'm after the designer.

Well, there are a few claims to fame in religion land.
The perhaps oldest, biggest and outspoken claim is to be found in the Old Testament.
This was confirmed in the New Testament, because Jesus affirmed the Old Testament.

theanticrash · Feb 22, 2018

iEye said:
View attachment 221311
“But I don't want comfort. I want God, I want poetry, I want real danger, I want freedom, I want goodness. I want sin.”
...
“There was a thing called Heaven; but all the same they used to drink enormous quantities of alcohol."
...
"There was a thing called the soul and a thing called immortality."
...
"But they used to take morphia and cocaine."
...
"Two thousand pharmacologists and biochemists were subsidized in A.F. 178."
...
"Six years later it was being produced commercially. The perfect drug."
...
"Euphoric, narcotic, pleasantly hallucinant."
...
"All the advantages of Christianity and alcohol; none of their defects."
...
"Take a holiday from reality whenever you like, and come back without so much as a headache or a mythology."
...
"Stability was practically assured.”
Aldous Huxley, Brave New World

2PhiloVoid · Feb 22, 2018

theanticrash said:
Why did God make it so we would have to believe in him with no evidence? Why did he make it so we would have to believe in him unseen?

If you just say that "God has made himself known through what he has created" I would have to say, does nature prove that your particular God was it's designer?

I'm after the designer.

Just from what I've studied regarding Epistemology in general, as well as what I call the "Epistemic Indices" within the Bible itself, it doesn't seem that faith is anything easy to come by. However, even if it is difficult to arrive at, this doesn't mean that there is 'no' evidence or that God won't help you to see the truth He's given that resides in the existence in which we all live.

If you feel somewhere in your mind that you'd really like to have faith in Christ if at all possible, then you might do two things: 1) Pray and ask God for further enlightenment, and 2) Challenge your own preconceived notions about how you 'think' any beliefs and/or claims of knowledge are justified; i.e. challenge your own epistemology.

iEye · Feb 22, 2018

theanticrash said:

"Just paint your face" the shadows smile
Slipping me away from you
"Oh it doesn't matter how you hide
Find you if we're wanting to
So slide back down and close your eyes
Sleep a while
You must be tired..."

Theodoric · Feb 22, 2018

theanticrash said:
Why did God make it so we would have to believe in him with no evidence? Why did he make it so we would have to believe in him unseen?

If you just say that "God has made himself known through what he has created" I would have to say, does nature prove that your particular God was it's designer?

I'm after the designer.

You are working from a faulty premise. God did not "make it so", man did.

I don't think you are writing from a necessarily Christian perspective, and I understand that. I can give you the "Christian" answer, maybe some others can provide other ideas.

From the Genesis account, man was originally created in full fellowship with God. We left Him, He did not leave us.

Sin has created a rift between God and man which resulted in death. Death properly understood is not cessation of being, it's separation. Physically, separation of the body and soul. Spiritually, separation from the presence of God.

What you want, I think, is for God to show up and say, "I'm back, and I'm not mad any more." I'd like that as well. It would be super cool. But it's not going to happen.

God did, in a sense, show up once and make Himself known. We hammered him to a tree.

Thomas1987 · Feb 22, 2018

theanticrash said:
Why did God make it so we would have to believe in him with no evidence? Why did he make it so we would have to believe in him unseen?

If you just say that "God has made himself known through what he has created" I would have to say, does nature prove that your particular God was it's designer?

I'm after the designer.

What do you mean by no evidence ? He told Jews exactly the date when Messiah will be proclaimed on donkey .

Sam91 · Feb 22, 2018

Firstly creation. I can not believe for one second the magnificent variation and beauty all around us happened randomly. It's impossible.

Then the Bible gives plenty of accounts of eyewitness and fulfilled prophecy.

The Holy Spirit prompts us to discover the Truth.

Answered prayer.

Had far too many coincidences backing up my reading, far too often for it not to be God leading the Way. It is statistically impossiblr to not be God's hand at work.

theanticrash · Feb 22, 2018

Thomas1987 said:
What do you mean by no evidence ? He told Jews exactly the date when Messiah will be proclaimed on donkey .

Anyone with the Old Testament can write the New Testament to fit the prophesies.

theanticrash · Feb 22, 2018

Sam91 said:
Firstly creation. I can not believe for one second the magnificent variation and beauty all around us happened randomly. It's impossible.

Then the Bible gives plenty of accounts of eyewitness and fulfilled prophecy.

The Holy Spirit prompts us to discover the Truth.

Answered prayer.

Had far too many coincidences backing up my reading, far too often for it not to be God leading the Way. It is statistically impossiblr to not be God's hand at work.

If that's true the Bible should full of fundamental law's that explain nature.
Not full of fundamental law's that require the killing of animals to appease an angry God.

Sam91 · Feb 22, 2018

theanticrash said:
If that's true the Bible should full of fundamental law's that explain nature.
Not full of fundamental law's that require the killing of animals to appease an angry God.

Are you vegan?

iEye · Feb 22, 2018

14(for when Gentiles that have not the law do by nature the things of the law, these, not having the law, are the law unto themselves; 15 in that they show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience bearing witness therewith, and their thoughts one with another accusing or else excusing [them]);

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