Why Evolution is True

stevevw · Jul 6, 2014

The bible has a lot of evidence. They have found towns, people, alters, artifacts, ruins, monuments and many everyday items that are mentioned in the bible. In fact some places and people that were mentioned in the bible were ridiculed because there was no evidence for them until archeologists found them later to confirm what the bible had said. Some archeologists use the bible as a reference for their digs so they believe in it enough to be their guide to finding ruins and places. If you take the supernatural out of the bible it is one of the greatest books of the life and times of people back in those times. There is precious little written about those times so we should be regarding the bible as a treasure of great importance instead of mocking it.

OldWiseGuy · Jul 6, 2014

PsychoSarah said:
Time has not been good to the bible. The bible has centuries of people trying to find evidence and failing.

There is no understanding without belief. As soon as one loses their belief they also lose their understanding. Also belief and understanding are not 'proof'. Faith doesn't require proof, although evidence of the truth is all around.

OldWiseGuy · Jul 6, 2014

PsychoSarah said:
I think it stood through the ages because those who questioned it openly were often killed up until about perhaps 300 years ago, when asking questions began to slowly be more accepted.

Click to expand...

That's easily explained. In order for the church to grow and fulfill it's mission it had to be free to do so. When God planted the church in the New World it gained this freedom. Along with this freedom came the freedom of some to question. Many good changes have come from 'questioning' within the church. Little attention is paid to 'questioning' coming from outside of the church (we don't allow foxes to guard our henhouse).

MuchWiser · Jul 6, 2014

OldWiseGuy said:
There is no understanding without belief. As soon as one loses their belief they also lose their understanding. Also belief and understanding are not 'proof'. Faith doesn't require proof, although evidence of the truth is all around.

That's because understanding without evidence requires belief (blind faith), once you realise you have no reason to believe it all falls away.
If there is evidence of the truth all around why do you require faith? I think you are doing a good job of fooling yourself.

MuchWiser · Jul 6, 2014

OldWiseGuy said:
Little attention is paid to 'questioning' coming from outside of the church (we don't allow foxes to guard our henhouse).

When the 'questioning' does come from those inside they are soon put outside to shut them up, they are called 'bad Christians', a good Christian is someone who believes without question like a sheep or a Zombie.
You have foxes guarding your henhouse to stop the hens getting out.
The blasphemy laws were specifically designed to shut people up, if your religion was true it could stand any amount of criticism but it's not so people need to be kept quiet.

AV1611VET · Jul 6, 2014

MuchWiser said:
a good Christian is someone who believes without question like a sheep or a Zombie.

Zombies believe without question, do they?

Should I believe you're consol without question?

MuchWiser · Jul 6, 2014

AV1611VET said:
Zombies believe without question, do they?

Should I believe you're consol without question?

A Zombie does as it's told.

stevevw · Jul 6, 2014

MuchWiser said:
That's because understanding without evidence requires belief (blind faith), once you realise you have no reason to believe it all falls away.
If there is evidence of the truth all around why do you require faith? I think you are doing a good job of fooling yourself.

Its a bit like the evidence that you believe your wife is faithfull to you and loves you. you dont have any solid evidence or counter evidence such as video evidence showing her having an affair. You are certainly not going to go out and put a surveillance on her. Thats because you have this unwritten assurance that comes with the trust and beliefs that she is faithful. The evidence is something that you cant always put your finger on but it assures you that everything is OK. There is a connection and confidence that comes only from trusting in her. The moment you start to question that and want proof is the moment you lose that confidence in each other and it all goes.

When you believe and trust God then your heart and mind are open to God and the spirit of God bears witness to you. You see God in nature and his creation. The spiritual world is open up to you and its almost like a 7th sense that you become aware of. But the important thing it is not fooling yourself because you know the difference between fools gold and real gold. You dont trip up and find yourself deluded and lost. Its the opposite you find the truth and see it at work in your life on a daily basis producing the goods and giving you direction and success all the time.

MuchWiser · Jul 6, 2014

AV1611VET said:
Should I believe you're consol without question?

The consol card, I was wondering how long it would take, get too close to the truth and out comes the consol card.

OldWiseGuy · Jul 6, 2014

MuchWiser said:
That's because understanding without evidence requires belief (blind faith), once you realise you have no reason to believe it all falls away.
If there is evidence of the truth all around why do you require faith? I think you are doing a good job of fooling yourself.

Maybe we just aren't good at explaining our faith. It's sorta like science trying to explain evolution. At the end of the day you take either on faith.

OldWiseGuy · Jul 6, 2014

MuchWiser said:
When the 'questioning' does come from those inside they are soon put outside to shut them up, they are called 'bad Christians', a good Christian is someone who believes without question like a sheep or a Zombie.
You have foxes guarding your henhouse to stop the hens getting out.
The blasphemy laws were specifically designed to shut people up, if your religion was true it could stand any amount of criticism but it's not so people need to be kept quiet.

Don't confuse the true church with 'nominal' Christianity.

OldWiseGuy · Jul 6, 2014

MuchWiser said:
When the 'questioning' does come from those inside they are soon put outside to shut them up, they are called 'bad Christians', a good Christian is someone who believes without question like a sheep or a Zombie.
You have foxes guarding your henhouse to stop the hens getting out.
The blasphemy laws were specifically designed to shut people up, if your religion was true it could stand any amount of criticism but it's not so people need to be kept quiet.

Someone who blasphemes should be disciplined, and if they don't repent they should be disfellowshipped. No secular organization would tolerate dissent and criticism from within it's ranks for very long, why would the church?

MuchWiser · Jul 6, 2014

stevevw said:
Its a bit like the evidence that you believe your wife is faithfull to you and loves you. you dont have any solid evidence or counter evidence such as video evidence showing her having an affair. You are certainly not going to go out and put a surveillance on her. Thats because you have this unwritten assurance that comes with the trust and beliefs that she is faithful. The evidence is something that you cant always put your finger on but it assures you that everything is OK. There is a connection and confidence that comes only from trusting in her. The moment you start to question that and want proof is the moment you lose that confidence in each other and it all goes.

Does your wife tell you she loves you? does she show you she loves you? does she stay with you and look after you as if she loves you? has she promised to love you until she dies? what more do you want?

When you believe and trust God then your heart and mind are open to God and the spirit of God bears witness to you. You see God in nature and his creation. The spiritual world is open up to you and its almost like a 7th sense that you become aware of. But the important thing it is not fooling yourself because you know the difference between fools gold and real gold. You dont trip up and find yourself deluded and lost. Its the opposite you find the truth and see it at work in your life on a daily basis producing the goods and giving you direction and success all the time.

Your God says nothing to you, nothing at all, you imagine your God is with you and guiding you but he's not.

MuchWiser · Jul 6, 2014

OldWiseGuy said:
Someone who blasphemes should be disciplined, and if they don't repent they should be disfellowshipped. No secular organization would tolerate dissent and criticism from within it's ranks for very long, why would the church?

When did we go from 'Questioning' to 'Blaspheming'? if someone asks 'how or why' are they blaspheming?
Science is based on "Questioning" the status quo.

MuchWiser · Jul 6, 2014

OldWiseGuy said:
Don't confuse the true church with 'nominal' Christianity.

What is the "True church"? I thought they were all true for the people who worshipped in them?

Dizredux · Jul 6, 2014

OldWiseGuy said:
Someone who blasphemes should be disciplined, and if they don't repent they should be disfellowshipped. No secular organization would tolerate dissent and criticism from within it's ranks for very long, why would the church?

I am not sure of what you are saying so want to clarify.

Are you saying that if someone voices religious doubt or is having a crisis of faith should be disciplined and if then they do not quit voicing their doubts and faith struggles they should be disfellowshipped?

I truly hope you do not mean this but I think some clarification is in order.

Dizredux

OldWiseGuy · Jul 6, 2014

MuchWiser said:
When did we go from 'Questioning' to 'Blaspheming'? if someone asks 'how or why' are they blaspheming?
Science is based on "Questioning" the status quo.

You did (post #25).

OldWiseGuy · Jul 6, 2014

MuchWiser said:
What is the "True church"? I thought they were all true for the people who worshipped in them?

The true church are those who are called, chosen, spirit-led believers. Only God knows who or where they all are.

OldWiseGuy · Jul 6, 2014

Dizredux said:
I am not sure of what you are saying so want to clarify.

Are you saying that if someone voices religious doubt or is having a crisis of faith should be disciplined and if then they do not quit voicing their doubts and faith struggles they should be disfellowshipped?

I truly hope you do not mean this but I think some clarification is in order.

Dizredux

Doubts and crises are normal for many Christians and are a long way from blasphemy. The church is a sheepfold, not a slaughterhouse.

MuchWiser · Jul 6, 2014

OldWiseGuy said:
The true church are those who are called, chosen, spirit-led believers. Only God knows who or where they all are.

You hope.

Why Evolution is True

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