Why Evolution is True (2)

Subduction Zone · Aug 15, 2014

Articles by professors whose understanding of the theory of evolution is questionable at best are hardly qualified scholars to comment on this topic.

The fact is that Darwin's works were banned. If you band Darwin's works then you could hardly be a supporter of the theory of evolution.

Hitler was a Christian like it or not. He may have had his own weird brand of Christianity but he still was a Christian.

createdtoworship · Aug 15, 2014

Subduction Zone said:
Articles by professors whose understanding of the theory of evolution is questionable at best are hardly qualified scholars to comment on this topic.

The fact is that Darwin's works were banned. If you band Darwin's works then you could hardly be a supporter of the theory of evolution.

Hitler was a Christian like it or not. He may have had his own weird brand of Christianity but he still was a Christian.

this is a repeat with no factual basis. firstly, you dont know my sources view of evolution. secondly, origin of species was not outlawed as said earlier, thirdly darwin was not a christian as noted in my post with numerous bible verses. however you seem unresposive but would it help to repost these rebuttals?

Subduction Zone · Aug 15, 2014

gradyll said:
this is a repeat with no factual basis. origin of species was not outlawed as said earlier, darwin was not a christian as noted in my post with numerous verse. however you seem unresposive but would it help to repost these rebuttals?

Oh, I agree, Darwin was not a Christian.

How could "primitive Darwinsim" be banned and the most primitive example of Darwinism not be banned? Your statement makes no logical sense at all.

And in case you meant "Hitler was not a Christian as shown by various Bible passages". That is a totally bogus claim. By quote mining the Bible you could make the case for or against any questionable Christian.

dad · Aug 15, 2014

Subduction Zone said:
Hitler was a Christian like it or not. He may have had his own weird brand of Christianity but he still was a Christian.

I don't believe you. Like it or not.

dad · Aug 15, 2014

Subduction Zone said:
Pay attention dad, no one claimed that. Darwin was the originator of the theory of evolution.

No he was the inspired little echo of Satan.

Subduction Zone · Aug 15, 2014

dad said:
I don't believe you. Like it or not.

That's okay. Having you not believe me is extraordinarily strong evidence that I am correct.

Thanks dad

Subduction Zone · Aug 15, 2014

dad said:
No he was the inspired little echo of Satan.

dad, no breaking of the Ninth Commandment.

Darwin was not inspired by a nonexistent being.

dad · Aug 15, 2014

Subduction Zone said:
That's okay. Having you not believe me is extraordinarily strong evidence that I am correct.

Thanks dad

Even I have to question your evidence then!

PsychoSarah · Aug 15, 2014

dad said:
Even I have to question your evidence then!

Look, denying all the bad people in history who were Christian just makes you look silly. Just because various degenerates, murderers, and rapists shared the same religion as you doesn't mean the religion itself is bad, nor does it negate all the decent people who shared the same religion as you.

dad · Aug 15, 2014

PsychoSarah said:
Look, denying all the bad people in history who were Christian just makes you look silly. Just because various degenerates, murderers, and rapists shared the same religion as you doesn't mean the religion itself is bad, nor does it negate all the decent people who shared the same religion as you.

I don't believe Hitler had the heart of God in him. His actions speak otherwise. Politicians sometimes say things that may be convenient and get them elected.

Now if Hitler got saved in his deathbed bunker or something, I wouldn't know, the issue is whether the tree is known by the fruits. In other words, looking at the actions of Hitler Germany, one can say that it was not something Christ like.

I have prayed with some folks who got saved late in life, even after having rejected God all their lives. I think it was you who brought up the issue about, if one needs to believe to be saved, how could someone simply pray for salvation, who maybe did not really believe in any seemingly real way. Well maybe if one believes enough to try that may be enough, and give God something to start to work with? At least that is my humble little opinion.

But as for people who make a living saying lies like many politicians, sorry, the words do not have any meaning at all. Going to some nominal christian church before one gets elected to keep up appearances of some such just should not be accepted at face value as far as I am concerned. We can't judge the hearts but we can judge actions.

Subduction Zone · Aug 15, 2014

dad said:
I don't believe Hitler had the heart of God in him. His actions speak otherwise. Politicians sometimes say things that may be convenient and get them elected.

Now if Hitler got saved in his deathbed bunker or something, I wouldn't know, the issue is whether the tree is known by the fruits. In other words, looking at the actions of Hitler Germany, one can say that it was not something Christ like.

I have prayed with some folks who got saved late in life, even after having rejected God all their lives. I think it was you who brought up the issue about, if one needs to believe to be saved, how could someone simply pray for salvation, who maybe did not really believe in any seemingly real way. Well maybe if one believes enough to try that may be enough, and give God something to start to work with? At least that is my humble little opinion.

But as for people who make a living saying lies like many politicians, sorry, the words do not have any meaning at all. Going to some nominal christian church before one gets elected to keep up appearances of some such just should not be accepted at face value as far as I am concerned. We can't judge the hearts but we can judge actions.

Hitler may not be your kind of Christian, but by the rules of this forum if he were here today and he signed up, he would be a Christian here. You do not have the authority to challenge anyone's stated religious belief.

dad · Aug 15, 2014

Subduction Zone said:
Hitler may not be your kind of Christian, but by the rules of this forum if he were here today and he signed up, he would be a Christian here. You do not have the authority to challenge anyone's stated religious belief.

How would you know that Hitler would claim to believe in the Nicene creed? The rules of a debate forum don't really amount to a hill of beans anyhow in the big picture.

Subduction Zone · Aug 15, 2014

dad said:
How would you know that Hitler would claim to believe in the Nicene creed? The rules of a debate forum don't really amount to a hill of beans anyhow in the big picture.

I don't see how that belief would have hampered him at all.

It did not hamper the Crusades. It did not hamper the internecine wars seen in England, France, and who knows where else. It did not hamper the Conquistadors and other exploiters of the New World. And it certainly did not harm the slave trade that the Bible supported.

createdtoworship · Aug 15, 2014

Subduction Zone said:
Sorry, that was too weak. One crackpot professor from a small school is hardly an expert. And Hitler never disavowed his Christian beliefs. Why do you think he was so anti-Jewish? He was merely emulating an early protestant, you may have heard of him. His name was Martin Luther.

You have no evidence that Hitler supported evolution. Social Darwinism is not evolution, it is only evolution according to the ignorant, creationists for example. And the works of Darwin were banned. Until you have something stronger than the weak tea that you have been serving you really did not have much of a claim to be debunked, and I debunked it.

Try again.

"Christopher Hutton argues that Darwinism was a crucial element of Nazi racial ideology.11 Uwe Hoßfeld’s and Thomas Junker’s important work on biologists and anthropologists under the Nazi regime also helps illuminate the connections between evolutionists and the Nazi regime, though their emphasis is on the scientists more than on Nazi ideology.12 One reason some historians (such as Mosse and Bowler) have erred is because of a mistaken belief that the Nazi insistence on hard heredity entailed a rejection of evolution. Hard heredity—the idea championed by German biologist August Weismann—is the idea that environmental influences cannot affect hereditary traits. Weismann rejected the Lamarckian idea that organisms can evolve by passing on acquired characteristics to their progeny. The Nazis continually insisted that heredity cannot be directly affected by the environment, charging that Lamarckism was a Marxist doctrine. The Nazis’ embrace of hard heredity is not antievolutionary, however, since Weismann was a leading evolutionist.
When the Nazis occasionally claimed that the Nordic race had been unchanged for thousands of years, they were not claiming that it had been immutable over geologic time. Walter Gross, head of the Nazi Racial Policy Office, clarified this point in an essay on “The Racial View of History.” After bashing Lamarckism, he reminded his readers that even though racial traits do not change over historical time, “selection and elimination” (“Auslese und Ausmerze,” a phrase often used by German evolutionary biologists to mean natural selection) do alter racial traits.13 Most Darwinists admitted that as far as we could tell, humans had not changed significantly during the past several thousand years. The evolutionary anthropologist Otto Reche admitted that human races had not changed significantly in the past 20–30,000 years.14 By rejecting Lamarckism and insisting on hard heredity, Nazi racial theorists were consistent with the best science of their day (in this case)."
from the same link

Subduction Zone · Aug 15, 2014

More nothing is just nothing.

createdtoworship · Aug 16, 2014

Subduction Zone said:
More nothing is just nothing.

sorry for being blunt but prove it.. like you said more nothing is nothing. and thus are your arguments. I proved from the bible that you cant do the things hitler did and still be saved. now if he turned from his ways there is grace. but there is no evidence he was a practicing roman catholic even.

Subduction Zone · Aug 16, 2014

gradyll said:
sorry for being blunt but prove it.. like you said more nothing is nothing. and thus are your arguments. I proved from the bible that you cant do the things hitler did and still be saved. now if he turned from his ways there is grace. but there is no evidence he was a practicing roman catholic even.

You have not made your point. All you have linked to is some hacks that are not biologists, but rather historians.

And please, do not lie. You proved noting about Hitler with your Bible quotes. Bible quotes prove nothing in this regard. I did not even read that nonsense. I don't need to read that nonsense.

And this is just a diversion anyway. Regardless of whether or not Hitler accepted the theory of evolution, the theory has still been proven beyond a reasonable doubt.

So that brings me back to the proper question for this thread. What part of evolution do you not understand?

In other words why don't you accept the theory of evolution? If you claim it goes against the Bible that is about the weakest objection possible since the Bible as a reliable source of events more than 3,000 years ago has been shown to be worthless.

PsychoSarah · Aug 16, 2014

dad said:
I don't believe Hitler had the heart of God in him. His actions speak otherwise. Politicians sometimes say things that may be convenient and get them elected.

Now if Hitler got saved in his deathbed bunker or something, I wouldn't know, the issue is whether the tree is known by the fruits. In other words, looking at the actions of Hitler Germany, one can say that it was not something Christ like.

I have prayed with some folks who got saved late in life, even after having rejected God all their lives. I think it was you who brought up the issue about, if one needs to believe to be saved, how could someone simply pray for salvation, who maybe did not really believe in any seemingly real way. Well maybe if one believes enough to try that may be enough, and give God something to start to work with? At least that is my humble little opinion.

But as for people who make a living saying lies like many politicians, sorry, the words do not have any meaning at all. Going to some nominal christian church before one gets elected to keep up appearances of some such just should not be accepted at face value as far as I am concerned. We can't judge the hearts but we can judge actions.

But being Christian (unless you are one of the few denominations that believes good works are necessary) is about faith alone, and no other action. By your beliefs, as long as Hitler believed in god, it didn't matter what he did, he would have gotten into heaven. Don't you see why many people have a moral problem with some of the general Christian teachings? Most denominations basically preach that you could murder every child on the planet and still get into heaven if you were a believer, because that is all god cares about. And you could dedicate your life to helping others and still go to hell if you aren't a believer, because belief is all god cares about. In Christianity, that is.

Paul of Eugene OR · Aug 16, 2014

PsychoSarah said:
But being Christian (unless you are one of the few denominations that believes good works are necessary) is about faith alone, and no other action. By your beliefs, as long as Hitler believed in god, it didn't matter what he did, he would have gotten into heaven. Don't you see why many people have a moral problem with some of the general Christian teachings? Most denominations basically preach that you could murder every child on the planet and still get into heaven if you were a believer, because that is all god cares about. And you could dedicate your life to helping others and still go to hell if you aren't a believer, because belief is all god cares about. In Christianity, that is.

Well, actually, in order to be forgiven for your sins, you have to repent. And after you repent, if you continue murdering kids, that's an indication you didn't truly repent, isn't it?

God is able to tell a true repentance from a false repentance.

createdtoworship · Aug 16, 2014

Subduction Zone said:
You have not made your point. All you have linked to is some hacks that are not biologists, but rather historians.

And please, do not lie. You proved noting about Hitler with your Bible quotes. Bible quotes prove nothing in this regard. I did not even read that nonsense. I don't need to read that nonsense.

And this is just a diversion anyway. Regardless of whether or not Hitler accepted the theory of evolution, the theory has still been proven beyond a reasonable doubt.

So that brings me back to the proper question for this thread. What part of evolution do you not understand?

In other words why don't you accept the theory of evolution? If you claim it goes against the Bible that is about the weakest objection possible since the Bible as a reliable source of events more than 3,000 years ago has been shown to be worthless.

isn't it considered trolling, when someone does not address what's posted and posts more links without addressing what is posted? Hitler was a darwinist, not a Christian. There are books about this. I quoted the Bible which you don't believe, and criticize in a Christian forum none the less. Secondly, I proved your assertion wrong that origin of the species was on the banned list in nazi germany. Thirdly I showed ample evidence for Hitlers association with darwinism:
"The greatest authority of all the advocates of war is Darwin. Since the theory of evolution has been promulgated, they can cover their natural barbarism with the name of Darwin and proclaim the sanguinary instincts of their inmost hearts as the last word of science."*Max Nordau, "The Philosophy and Morals of War," in North American Review 169 (1889), p. 794.

*Barzun, a history teacher at Columbia University, wrote an epic book, Darwin, Marx, Wagner, in which he clearly showed that Darwinism inflamed militarism and warfare wherever it went.

During World War I, German intellectuals believed natural selection was irresistibly all-powerful (Allmacht), a law of nature impelling them to bloody struggle for domination. Their political and military textbooks promoted Darwins theories as the scientific basis of a quest for world conquest, with the full backing of German scientists and professors of biology."*R. Milner, Encyclopedia of Evolution (1990), p. 59.

"One need not read far in Hitlers Mein Kampf to find that evolution likewise influenced him and his views on the master race, genocide, human breeding experiments, etc."Robert Clark, Darwin: Before and After (1948), p. 115.

"[The position in Germany was that] Man must conform to natures processes, no matter how ruthless. The fittest must never stand in the way of the law of evolutionary progress. In its extreme form, that social view was used in Nazi Germany to justify sterilization and mass murder of the unfit, incompetent, inferior races. "*R. Milner, Encyclopedia of Evolution (1990), p. 412.

above quotes from:

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