Why Everyone Needs An AR-15

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The person coming around a blind corner is at a disadvantage against someone posted waiting for someone to come around that corner. Thats why I’d holler to the person that I have a gun and sit and stay posted waiting for anyone to come around the corner while I wait for the police to arrive. I think in most cases a burglar is going to leave once they’ve been discovered and they know the police are on the way. Anyone who doesn’t is most likely mentally unstable or high on drugs.
I know but I am saying to just blanketing say that I would not shoot just to protect my stuff well that makes sense if it is not a robbery ( different than burgary) and you KNOW your stuff is all that is at risk. The other thing though and I mean your move would probably be smart, but in terms of the police it may help if they had some idea of who to look for clothing hight race ECT I am not saying that it would not be smart to do it your way I am saying that in terms of getting the person "off the streets" that would be a little hard with nothing to go on in terms of finding them.
 
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BNR32FAN

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I know but I am saying to just blanketing say that I would not shoot just to protect my stuff well that makes sense if it is not a robbery ( different than burgary) and you KNOW your stuff is all that is at risk. The other thing though and I mean your move would probably be smart, but in terms of the police it may help if they had some idea of who to look for clothing hight race ECT I am not saying that it would not be smart to do it your way I am saying that in terms of getting the person "off the streets" that would be a little hard with othing to go on in terms of finding them.
I wouldn’t risk trying to get a description of the burglar, you can get your head blown off trying to peek around a corner. The police are going to announce themselves before they enter.
 
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ViaCrucis

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Absolutely.

Perhaps we share a different foundational principle for what constitutes something as Christian. The three foundations I rely upon for my Christianity are as follows:

1) Jesus Christ
2) The Holy Scriptures
3) The Holy Christian Church

What is the foundational principle for you? How do you determine if something is or isn't Christian?

-CryptoLutheran
 
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BNR32FAN

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Perhaps we share a different foundational principle for what constitutes something as Christian. The three foundations I rely upon for my Christianity are as follows:

1) Jesus Christ
2) The Holy Scriptures
3) The Holy Christian Church

What is the foundational principle for you? How do you determine if something is or isn't Christian?

-CryptoLutheran
If it’s supported by the scriptures and all throughout the scriptures God has favored those who defended themselves against the wicked. This is what God said to Abraham after he rescued Lot and his wife from their capturers by killing them.

”After these things the word of the Lord came to Abram in a vision, saying, “Do not fear, Abram, I am a shield to you; Your reward shall be very great.”“
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭15‬:‭1‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

Apparently God was not angry with Abraham for what he had done.
 
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BNR32FAN

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A rock in bad hands killed Abel. A rock in good hands killed Goliath. It's not about the rock.
Excellent point. David killed thousands in the defense of Israel and remained in favor with God until he killed one man unjustly Uriah which God severely punished him for. Abraham killed the men who captured Lot and his wife when he rescued them and God showed favor on him. The scriptures even say that Abraham brought his trained men to rescue lot which shows that God did not condemn preparing for self defense. People have this idea that Jesus is a pacifist, they seem to completely forget what He will do to the wicked in Revelation 20 on Judgement Day.
 
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ViaCrucis

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If it’s supported by the scriptures and all throughout the scriptures God has favored those who defended themselves against the wicked. This is what God said to Abraham after he rescued Lot and his wife from their capturers by killing them.

”After these things the word of the Lord came to Abram in a vision, saying, “Do not fear, Abram, I am a shield to you; Your reward shall be very great.”“
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭15‬:‭1‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

Apparently God was not angry with Abraham for what he had done.

When Jesus says, "You have heard it said of old, an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth, but I say to you, do not retaliate against and evil person" which position do you take, an eye for an eye, or turn the other cheek? Which is the way of the Christian?

It's possible to use the Bible to defend nearly any position we may want. I can, for example, justify infanticide by quoting Psalm 137:9. Would that make my position Christian? Would it make my position Biblical?

Any Christian with even a minute amount of religious literacy is aware of the fact that the Bible isn't just a collection of proof texts. And you'd agree with that. The Bible is a complex, and we engage in processes and methods of interpretation, hermeneutics, as part of a desire to not just read the Bible, but to read it correctly, understand it rightly, and then see in what ways we can apply what is contained in its pages.

In the 19th century, in America, there was a sharp divide between those who read the Bible and used it to defend the practice of race-based chattel slavery; and then there were those who saw in the Bible the exact opposite: such a system as this slavery as was practiced in the United States was an abomination, and thus it was a moral imperative to abolish slavery.

The question, therefore, that is before us is this: What is our hermeneutic when it comes to how we are to engage with a hostile person. In the Old Testament we see the use of violence in myriad ways. Indeed, we even see how God commands Israel, when it enters into the land of promise, to destroy entire population centers. In the Torah which God gave to His Covenant people, there is example after example of violence as a justified punishment for violating certain commandments. In the New Testament, on the other hand, without there being a rejection of the Torah, we do see something fundamentally new, through the Person of Jesus. Jesus simultaneously says, "I did not come to abolish the Law and the Prophets" and at the same time, undermines many of the common attitudes and opinions of the Scribes and Pharisees. Jesus' way is directly at odds with the prevailing Jewish religious frameworks of the time: While theologically Jesus is clearly in the Pharisaic camp; there is also a clear disconnect between Jesus and the larger Pharisaic establishment. Jesus is even further removed from the Sadducaic a Zealot camps.

Without undermining the Law Jesus brings fresh and new ways of understanding the essence of the Torah. Jesus summarizes the essence when He echoes the words of Hillel the Elder, "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you, this is the Law and the Prophets" (Matthew 7:12).

St. Paul, in his epistles, will speak of the Torah as the paidagogos which points toward Christ. The major through-line of Pauline theology is that Jesus was the whole point of everything God ever did, and that the promise of Messiah predates Torah; and that Torah was given as a paidagogos (Galatians 3:24-27); as Paul is interested in speaking on the justification, that righteousness which is before God, which exists apart from the Law but which is by grace through faith.

The Christian, therefore, not subject to the old ways; but subject to the new which has come through the Messiah is therefore called to a way of life defined not by the old, but the new. St. Ignatius of Antioch will echo this in his own letters, writing,

"Let us not, therefore, be insensible to His kindness. For were He to reward us according to our works, we should cease to be. Therefore, having become His disciples, let us learn to live according to the principles of Christianity. For whosoever is called by any other name besides this, is not of God. Lay aside, therefore, the evil, the old, the sour leaven, and be changed into the new leaven, which is Jesus Christ. Be salted in Him, lest any one among you should be corrupted, since by your savour you shall be convicted." - St. Ignatius to the Magnesians, ch. 10

The Rule of Law, for the believer in Jesus Christ, is stated with exceptional clarity by both the Apostle St. Paul, and by the Lord's own brother, St. James Adelphotheos. Galatians 5:14, James 2:8.

The Apostle St. Paul says, in his magnificent epistle to the Church in Rome, how the Christian ought to live, not just in relation to one another, but in relation to those outside the Church--even those who are hostile and violent toward us,

"Repay no one evil for evil, but give thought to do what is honorable in the sight of all. If possible, so far as it depends on you, live peaceably with all. Beloved, never avenge yourselves, but leave it to the wrath of God, for it is written, 'Vengeance is Mine, I will repay, says the Lord.' To the contrary, if your enemy is hungry, feed him; if he is thirsty, give him something to drink; for by doing so you will heap burning coals on his head. Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good." - Romans 12:17-21

Am I saying "don't defend yourself?" No. That's actually not what I'm saying. This entire tangent-conversation was initiated when you wrote the following:

I absolutely believe that a stranger’s death is acceptable since he’s the one that caused the situation where I was forced to defend myself and my family to begin with. I’m supposed to feel sorry for my attacker? Yeah maybe after he’s dead but not while he’s trying to kill me or my family. And why would you say that the attackers death was “needless” if he’s the one attacking?

To which I responded,

Do you believe this mindset is Christian?

And you said,

Absolutely.

Except that what you expressed wasn't a Christian mindset, but a carnal mindset, a worldly mindset.

Your thought process is not derived from the Way of Jesus Christ, the Scriptures, or the way of His Church--but is of your own fallen, sinful flesh. You may try to justify your flesh by quote-mining the Bible; that too is how we sinners often operate in order to justify ourselves; but that is because we are unbelievably sick and perverse

"The heart is deceitful above all else and desperately sick, who can understand it?" - Jeremiah 17:9
"For all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God" - Romans 3:23

The call and command of God, in the Scriptures as described by St. Paul, "Do not be conformed to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind." (Romans 12:2) And again stated by the Apostle in Philippians 2, "Have this same mind in you that was in Christ Jesus", then quoting the great Christological hymn, "Though He was by nature God, He did not regard equality with God something to be exploited, but emptied Himself, taking on the form of a slave".

It may be justified to do X or Y; but what is Christian--that which is of Christ--is different than what we might do to justify our own actions. We ought to always be aiming for the higher standard, the higher calling, the call to take up our cross and follow the Master.

For "Not that I have already obtained all this, or have already arrived at my goal, but I press on to take hold of that for which Christ Jesus took hold of me." - Philippians 3:12

Never be content nor comfortable, gaze upon the cross and seek the suffering by which you are to be defined. As Dietrich Bonhoeffer of blessed memory once said, "When Christ calls a man, He bids him, 'Come and die.'"

Pursue "the more excellent way" (1 Corinthians 12:31) which is set before you, the narrow road which few shall find; for broad and easy is the path toward destruction but narrow is the way that leads unto life. To learn what it means, "To live is Christ and to die is gain" (Philippians 1:21). For the life of discipleship is a harsh cross (Luke 14:26-27).

"Now I begin to be a disciple. And let no one, of things visible or invisible, envy me that I should attain to Jesus Christ. Let fire and the cross; let the crowds of wild beasts; let tearings, breakings, and dislocations of bones; let cutting off of members; let shatterings of the whole body; and let all the dreadful torments of the devil come upon me: only let me attain to Jesus Christ." - St. Ignatius to the Romans, ch. 5

-CryptoLutheran
 
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JosephZ

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A rock in bad hands killed Abel. A rock in good hands killed Goliath. It's not about the rock.
This is true, but the AR-15 was designed to kill people in the most efficient way possible. Bad people are going to kill, but those who are intent on killing the most people in the quickest way possible and those who want to be on equal footing or have an advantage over law enforcement are going to choose an AR-15 or similar-type weapon. If Stephen Paddock didn't have access to AR-15s and other "assault-style" weapons with high-capacity magazines, would he have been able to fire 1,000 rounds in a matter of minutes, which killed 60 people and wounded at least 400 others? If Salvador Ramos had chosen another type of weapon, do you think he would have been able to kill 19 children and teachers and wound 17 others in Uvalde? Would two police officers that were killed a couple of weeks ago in New York still be alive if they weren't outgunned by a suspect armed with an AR-15? Would four law enforcement officers in North Carolina have been killed and four others wounded yesterday if the person they were trying to arrest had been armed with a handgun or another type of semi-automatic rifle without a high capacity magazine instead of an AR-15?

Weapons like the AR-15 shouldn't be marketed to the general public and have no place in our society. There are way too many people who are mentally ill, have criminal intent, have short tempers, are angry, and some who are just not mature enough to be in possession such weapons.
 
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ViaCrucis

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A rock in bad hands killed Abel. A rock in good hands killed Goliath. It's not about the rock.

And better yet, the hand that uses rocks to build God's house.

1 Chronicles 28:3

-CryptoLutheran
 
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dogs4thewin

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This is true, but the AR-15 was designed to kill people in the most efficient way possible. Bad people are going to kill, but those who are intent on killing the most people in the quickest way possible and those who want to be on equal footing or have an advantage over law enforcement are going to choose an AR-15 or similar-type weapon. If Stephen Paddock didn't have access to AR-15s and other "assault-style" weapons with high-capacity magazines, would he have been able to fire 1,000 rounds in a matter of minutes, which killed 60 people and wounded at least 400 others? If Salvador Ramos had chosen another type of weapon, do you think he would have been able to kill 19 children and teachers and wound 17 others in Uvalde? Would two police officers that were killed a couple of weeks ago in New York still be alive if they weren't outgunned by a suspect armed with an AR-15? Would four law enforcement officers in North Carolina have been killed and four others wounded yesterday if the person they were trying to arrest had been armed with a handgun or another type of semi-automatic rifle without a high capacity magazine instead of an AR-15?

Weapons like the AR-15 shouldn't be marketed to the general public and have no place in our society. There are way too many people who are mentally ill, have criminal intent, have short tempers, are angry, and some who are just not mature enough to be in possession such weapons.
Yet again if I look at all the people killed with firearms Ar'S are not the main weapon of choice and not all AR deaths are mass shootings either, so I am not sure ( especlly given how many are out now how many lives would actually be saved if they were banned probably fairly few.
 
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dogs4thewin

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When Jesus says, "You have heard it said of old, an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth, but I say to you, do not retaliate against and evil person" which position do you take, an eye for an eye, or turn the other cheek? Which is the way of the Christian?

It's possible to use the Bible to defend nearly any position we may want. I can, for example, justify infanticide by quoting Psalm 137:9. Would that make my position Christian? Would it make my position Biblical?

Any Christian with even a minute amount of religious literacy is aware of the fact that the Bible isn't just a collection of proof texts. And you'd agree with that. The Bible is a complex, and we engage in processes and methods of interpretation, hermeneutics, as part of a desire to not just read the Bible, but to read it correctly, understand it rightly, and then see in what ways we can apply what is contained in its pages.

In the 19th century, in America, there was a sharp divide between those who read the Bible and used it to defend the practice of race-based chattel slavery; and then there were those who saw in the Bible the exact opposite: such a system as this slavery as was practiced in the United States was an abomination, and thus it was a moral imperative to abolish slavery.

The question, therefore, that is before us is this: What is our hermeneutic when it comes to how we are to engage with a hostile person. In the Old Testament we see the use of violence in myriad ways. Indeed, we even see how God commands Israel, when it enters into the land of promise, to destroy entire population centers. In the Torah which God gave to His Covenant people, there is example after example of violence as a justified punishment for violating certain commandments. In the New Testament, on the other hand, without there being a rejection of the Torah, we do see something fundamentally new, through the Person of Jesus. Jesus simultaneously says, "I did not come to abolish the Law and the Prophets" and at the same time, undermines many of the common attitudes and opinions of the Scribes and Pharisees. Jesus' way is directly at odds with the prevailing Jewish religious frameworks of the time: While theologically Jesus is clearly in the Pharisaic camp; there is also a clear disconnect between Jesus and the larger Pharisaic establishment. Jesus is even further removed from the Sadducaic a Zealot camps.

Without undermining the Law Jesus brings fresh and new ways of understanding the essence of the Torah. Jesus summarizes the essence when He echoes the words of Hillel the Elder, "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you, this is the Law and the Prophets" (Matthew 7:12).

St. Paul, in his epistles, will speak of the Torah as the paidagogos which points toward Christ. The major through-line of Pauline theology is that Jesus was the whole point of everything God ever did, and that the promise of Messiah predates Torah; and that Torah was given as a paidagogos (Galatians 3:24-27); as Paul is interested in speaking on the justification, that righteousness which is before God, which exists apart from the Law but which is by grace through faith.

The Christian, therefore, not subject to the old ways; but subject to the new which has come through the Messiah is therefore called to a way of life defined not by the old, but the new. St. Ignatius of Antioch will echo this in his own letters, writing,

"Let us not, therefore, be insensible to His kindness. For were He to reward us according to our works, we should cease to be. Therefore, having become His disciples, let us learn to live according to the principles of Christianity. For whosoever is called by any other name besides this, is not of God. Lay aside, therefore, the evil, the old, the sour leaven, and be changed into the new leaven, which is Jesus Christ. Be salted in Him, lest any one among you should be corrupted, since by your savour you shall be convicted." - St. Ignatius to the Magnesians, ch. 10

The Rule of Law, for the believer in Jesus Christ, is stated with exceptional clarity by both the Apostle St. Paul, and by the Lord's own brother, St. James Adelphotheos. Galatians 5:14, James 2:8.

The Apostle St. Paul says, in his magnificent epistle to the Church in Rome, how the Christian ought to live, not just in relation to one another, but in relation to those outside the Church--even those who are hostile and violent toward us,

"Repay no one evil for evil, but give thought to do what is honorable in the sight of all. If possible, so far as it depends on you, live peaceably with all. Beloved, never avenge yourselves, but leave it to the wrath of God, for it is written, 'Vengeance is Mine, I will repay, says the Lord.' To the contrary, if your enemy is hungry, feed him; if he is thirsty, give him something to drink; for by doing so you will heap burning coals on his head. Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good." - Romans 12:17-21

Am I saying "don't defend yourself?" No. That's actually not what I'm saying. This entire tangent-conversation was initiated when you wrote the following:



To which I responded,



And you said,



Except that what you expressed wasn't a Christian mindset, but a carnal mindset, a worldly mindset.

Your thought process is not derived from the Way of Jesus Christ, the Scriptures, or the way of His Church--but is of your own fallen, sinful flesh. You may try to justify your flesh by quote-mining the Bible; that too is how we sinners often operate in order to justify ourselves; but that is because we are unbelievably sick and perverse

"The heart is deceitful above all else and desperately sick, who can understand it?" - Jeremiah 17:9
"For all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God" - Romans 3:23

The call and command of God, in the Scriptures as described by St. Paul, "Do not be conformed to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind." (Romans 12:2) And again stated by the Apostle in Philippians 2, "Have this same mind in you that was in Christ Jesus", then quoting the great Christological hymn, "Though He was by nature God, He did not regard equality with God something to be exploited, but emptied Himself, taking on the form of a slave".

It may be justified to do X or Y; but what is Christian--that which is of Christ--is different than what we might do to justify our own actions. We ought to always be aiming for the higher standard, the higher calling, the call to take up our cross and follow the Master.

For "Not that I have already obtained all this, or have already arrived at my goal, but I press on to take hold of that for which Christ Jesus took hold of me." - Philippians 3:12

Never be content nor comfortable, gaze upon the cross and seek the suffering by which you are to be defined. As Dietrich Bonhoeffer of blessed memory once said, "When Christ calls a man, He bids him, 'Come and die.'"

Pursue "the more excellent way" (1 Corinthians 12:31) which is set before you, the narrow road which few shall find; for broad and easy is the path toward destruction but narrow is the way that leads unto life. To learn what it means, "To live is Christ and to die is gain" (Philippians 1:21). For the life of discipleship is a harsh cross (Luke 14:26-27).

"Now I begin to be a disciple. And let no one, of things visible or invisible, envy me that I should attain to Jesus Christ. Let fire and the cross; let the crowds of wild beasts; let tearings, breakings, and dislocations of bones; let cutting off of members; let shatterings of the whole body; and let all the dreadful torments of the devil come upon me: only let me attain to Jesus Christ." - St. Ignatius to the Romans, ch. 5

-CryptoLutheran
So I will asks you same as I asks others how would you feel if a gun was DIRECTLY used to protect YOU PERSONALLY.
 
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Aldebaran

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This is true, but the AR-15 was designed to kill people in the most efficient way possible. Bad people are going to kill, but those who are intent on killing the most people in the quickest way possible and those who want to be on equal footing or have an advantage over law enforcement are going to choose an AR-15 or similar-type weapon. If Stephen Paddock didn't have access to AR-15s and other "assault-style" weapons with high-capacity magazines, would he have been able to fire 1,000 rounds in a matter of minutes, which killed 60 people and wounded at least 400 others? If Salvador Ramos had chosen another type of weapon, do you think he would have been able to kill 19 children and teachers and wound 17 others in Uvalde? Would two police officers that were killed a couple of weeks ago in New York still be alive if they weren't outgunned by a suspect armed with an AR-15? Would four law enforcement officers in North Carolina have been killed and four others wounded yesterday if the person they were trying to arrest had been armed with a handgun or another type of semi-automatic rifle without a high capacity magazine instead of an AR-15?

Weapons like the AR-15 shouldn't be marketed to the general public and have no place in our society. There are way too many people who are mentally ill, have criminal intent, have short tempers, are angry, and some who are just not mature enough to be in possession such weapons.
Why not use the same reasoning about ALL guns?
Handguns are marketed to the general public. They are able to be stealthily brought to any public place, and quickly deployed to kill people with a supersonic bullet that the gun can fire over and over again, killing up to 17 people before needing a reload.
Sounds way more sinister than a bulky AR15 that is too big and heavy to conceal.

There's a reason Sarah Brady made it her goal to ban handguns rather than semi-auto long guns.
 
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JosephZ

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Why not use the same reasoning about ALL guns?
Because some guns, like the AR-15, are more dangerous in the hands of civilians than others.

Handguns are marketed to the general public. They are able to be stealthily brought to any public place, and quickly deployed to kill people with a supersonic bullet that the gun can fire over and over again, killing up to 17 people before needing a reload.
Sounds way more sinister than a bulky AR15 that is too big and heavy to conceal.
This is why the ban of high capacity magazines is included in assault weapon ban proposals. High capacity magazines for handguns would also be banned.

There's a reason Sarah Brady made it her goal to ban handguns rather than semi-auto long guns.
Sarah Brady advocated for stricter gun control legislation, not a ban on handguns. That was never her goal.
 
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Because some guns, like the AR-15, are more dangerous in the hands of civilians than others.

And yet handguns kill more people than AR15s do. Doesn't that make handguns more dangerous in the hands of civilians?

This is why the ban of high capacity magazines is included in assault weapon ban proposals. High capacity magazines for handguns would also be banned.

Even lower-capacity magazine guns kill. One death is too many, so why not get rid of bolt actions and single-shots?
 
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RDKirk

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This is why the ban of high capacity magazines is included in assault weapon ban proposals. High capacity magazines for handguns would also be banned.
High capacity magazines are somewhat of a boogey man in themselves. Prohibiting magazines to 10 rounds makes no practical difference in either limiting the lethality of a terrorist within a given amount of time or exposing the terrorists to defensive measures by law enforcement or armed citizens. That's because changing magazines takes only a second. That is too little time to make a significant difference to either people trying to escape or people trying to defend. It's another feel-good measure that doesn't do any good.
 
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And yet handguns kill more people than AR15s do. Doesn't that make handguns more dangerous in the hands of civilians?
No, it just means handguns are used more often.

Even lower-capacity magazine guns kill. One death is too many, so why not get rid of bolt actions and single-shots?
Because these weapons are protected by the Constitution and citizens of the United States have a right to own guns with the exception of those which are deemed to be dangerous or unusual.

 
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Yet again if I look at all the people killed with firearms Ar'S are not the main weapon of choice and not all AR deaths are mass shootings either, so I am not sure ( especlly given how many are out now how many lives would actually be saved if they were banned probably fairly few.
Yup.
We have quite a few ARs in this house.
3 are loaded and ready if required
We live in the country, and police response can be quite a while
I’ve also carried concealed for over 20 years, and fully support gun ownership
 
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JosephZ

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Prohibiting magazines to 10 rounds makes no practical difference in either limiting the lethality of a terrorist within a given amount of time or exposing the terrorists to defensive measures by law enforcement or armed citizens. That's because changing magazines takes only a second. That is too little time to make a significant difference to either people trying to escape or people trying to defend. It's another feel-good measure that doesn't do any good
I'm going to have to disagree that limiting magazines to 10 rounds of less is just another feel-good measure that doesn't do any good.

I agree that a well-trained, well-disciplined gun owner can change magazines in about a second, but what about the average low-life who wants to shoot up a classroom full of kids or a place of worship? Or someone who gets kicked out of a bar after having a few too many and comes back with their AR-15 in a fit of rage?

Here's an example of how several children were able to escape during the Sandy Hook shooting.

A 6-year-old boy killed in the massacre in Sandy Hook Elementary School shouted for his classmates to run while the gunman paused to reload and was shot moments later, the boy's mother said Friday.

The boy, Jesse Lewis, had just seen his teacher shot and urged the others to flee while the gunman, Adam Lanza, put a new clip into his semi-automatic rifle.

"He yelled, 'Run!' Adam reloaded and shot him in the head," said Scarlett Lewis, who learned details of the events inside the classroom from investigators who gathered accounts from children who survived.

"When I heard he used his last few seconds on earth to try to save his friends, I was not surprised," she said. "I am so incredibly proud of him."

In Jesse's classroom, which was led by teacher Victoria Soto, 11 students survived, including some who ran past Lanza when he stopped to reload.


Imagine if the shooter had to change magazines each time he fired 10 rounds. The death toll in that school shooting would have probably been much lower. There's no way Stephen Paddock could have shot 460+ people in Las Vegas if he had been changing magazines after every 10 shots, regardless of how experienced he was with firearms.

Every second is important in a crisis, and adding even a few can make a world of difference. Not only does a few seconds of pause to exchange magazines offer a chance to disarm or escape from a shooter, the more times a shooter has to change magazines, the more likely it is for them to mishandle or drop a magazine, especially an inexperienced shooter in a chaotic situation.
 
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BNR32FAN

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When Jesus says, "You have heard it said of old, an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth, but I say to you, do not retaliate against and evil person" which position do you take, an eye for an eye, or turn the other cheek? Which is the way of the Christian?
This isn’t about defending your life or the lives of your loved ones, this is about taking vengeance for a slap in the face. Obviously if it we’re referring to a life threatening attack YOU WOULDN'T BE ALIVE TO TURN THE OTHER CHEEK.
It's possible to use the Bible to defend nearly any position we may want. I can, for example, justify infanticide by quoting Psalm 137:9. Would that make my position Christian? Would it make my position Biblical?
Which is exactly what your doing in this post because your ignoring the fact that not once anywhere in the scriptures has God ever condemned anyone for defending themselves or the innocent against wicked men. You completely fail to understand the difference between justified death and murder that is taught throughout the scriptures over and over.
In the 19th century, in America, there was a sharp divide between those who read the Bible and used it to defend the practice of race-based chattel slavery; and then there were those who saw in the Bible the exact opposite: such a system as this slavery as was practiced in the United States was an abomination, and thus it was a moral imperative to abolish slavery.
The fact that some people used specific verses as an excuse to do evil is irrelevant. Perhaps you don’t realize that the laws pertaining to the slavery of other nations by the Jews were in reference to wicked people because all of the other nations were composed of wicked people which is why God gave the Israelites their land and the right to enslave them.
Without undermining the Law Jesus brings fresh and new ways of understanding the essence of the Torah. Jesus summarizes the essence when He echoes the words of Hillel the Elder, "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you, this is the Law and the Prophets" (Matthew 7:12).
I would expect that if anyone were to kill me for murdering innocent people that they would be justified in doing so. I expect that the same laws that apply to any murderer should apply to me as well, if I were to think otherwise then I’d be a hypocrite. Evil and illegal actions have consequences that is the very definition of justice and anyone who is performing these evil and illegal actions are well aware of them and therefore deserving of the consequences.
St. Paul, in his epistles, will speak of the Torah as the paidagogos which points toward Christ. The major through-line of Pauline theology is that Jesus was the whole point of everything God ever did, and that the promise of Messiah predates Torah; and that Torah was given as a paidagogos (Galatians 3:24-27); as Paul is interested in speaking on the justification, that righteousness which is before God, which exists apart from the Law but which is by grace through faith.

"Let us not, therefore, be insensible to His kindness. For were He to reward us according to our works, we should cease to be. Therefore, having become His disciples, let us learn to live according to the principles of Christianity. For whosoever is called by any other name besides this, is not of God. Lay aside, therefore, the evil, the old, the sour leaven, and be changed into the new leaven, which is Jesus Christ. Be salted in Him, lest any one among you should be corrupted, since by your savour you shall be convicted." - St. Ignatius to the Magnesians, ch. 10

The Rule of Law, for the believer in Jesus Christ, is stated with exceptional clarity by both the Apostle St. Paul, and by the Lord's own brother, St. James Adelphotheos. Galatians 5:14, James 2:8.
This is an absolutely absurd passage to quote for a situation of someone trying to kill you or your family. Is that what you would call a “neighbor”, did David love Goliath or the other thousands of people he killed in battle who were attacking Israel? Did Abraham love Lot’s capturers? Loving your neighbor is about loving others but it’s not about loving evildoers who are trying to kill you and your family. What you’re doing here is exactly the same thing the slave owners were doing 200 years ago, twisting the word of God to conform it to support your agenda. That’s why you’re quoting verses out of context and not thinking about how they apply to the NUMEROUS situations where people in the scriptures killed people who were attacking them and God’s reaction to these killings. I’ve already pointed this out to you so ignorance of these verses isn’t an excuse, instead you chose to ignore them because they refute your position.
"Repay no one evil for evil, but give thought to do what is honorable in the sight of all. If possible, so far as it depends on you, live peaceably with all. Beloved, never avenge yourselves, but leave it to the wrath of God, for it is written, 'Vengeance is Mine, I will repay, says the Lord.' To the contrary, if your enemy is hungry, feed him; if he is thirsty, give him something to drink; for by doing so you will heap burning coals on his head. Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good." - Romans 12:17-21
Again this CANNOT be referring to defending your life BECAUSE YOU CANT TAKE VENGEANCE FOR SOMEONE KILLING YOU. If the quote refers to taking revenge IT’S NOT ABOUT DEFENDING YOUR LIFE BECAUSE YOU CAN’T TAKE REVENGE IF YOUR DEAD!
Am I saying "don't defend yourself?" No. That's actually not what I'm saying. This entire tangent-conversation was initiated when you wrote the following:
Yes you absolutely are!! That’s exactly what you’re saying. LOOK AT YOUR REPLY IN THE TWO QUOTES BELOW!
Except that what you expressed wasn't a Christian mindset, but a carnal mindset, a worldly mindset.

Your thought process is not derived from the Way of Jesus Christ, the Scriptures, or the way of His Church--but is of your own fallen, sinful flesh. You may try to justify your flesh by quote-mining the Bible; that too is how we sinners often operate in order to justify ourselves; but that is because we are unbelievably sick and perverse
RIGHT HERE IN THE TWO QUOTES ABOVE YOU’RE SAYING I CAN’T DEFEND MYSELF!! THAT’S EXACTLY WHAT YOU’RE SAYING!! You’re saying that my desire to defend myself and my family isn’t a Christian mindset and it’s derived from my sinful flesh and a worldly mindset when I’ve already proven to you that God has NEVER CONDEMNED ANYONE FOR DEFENDING THEIR SELF OR THEIR LOVED ONES.
"The heart is deceitful above all else and desperately sick, who can understand it?" - Jeremiah 17:9
"For all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God" - Romans 3:23
Again more scripture quotes completely out of context. If you want to actually post verses that are actually pertaining to the subject of self defense WHY DON’T YOU QUOTE FROM THE PASSAGES THAT DEAL WITH PEOPLE WHO ACTUALLY DEFENDED THEMSELVES AND THEIR LOVED ONES? There’s no absence or shortage of these passages in the Bible. People have been defending themselves all throughout the Bible and GOD HAS NEVER ONCE CONDEMNED THEIR ACTIONS.
The call and command of God, in the Scriptures as described by St. Paul, "Do not be conformed to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind." (Romans 12:2) And again stated by the Apostle in Philippians 2, "Have this same mind in you that was in Christ Jesus", then quoting the great Christological hymn, "Though He was by nature God, He did not regard equality with God something to be exploited, but emptied Himself, taking on the form of a slave".
Have the same mindset as Jesus, He came to earth TO DIE FOR OUR SINS. What about HIS MINDSET IN REVELATION 20?!! You know, when He will throw satan, death, and the all the wicked people INTO THE LAKE OF FIRE FOR ALL ETERNITY? What about that mindset? Do you suppose Jesus was opposed to the destruction of Sodom & Gomorrah?
"Now I begin to be a disciple. And let no one, of things visible or invisible, envy me that I should attain to Jesus Christ. Let fire and the cross; let the crowds of wild beasts; let tearings, breakings, and dislocations of bones; let cutting off of members; let shatterings of the whole body; and let all the dreadful torments of the devil come upon me: only let me attain to Jesus Christ." - St. Ignatius to the Romans, ch. 5
Yeah he wanted to be a martyr, a lot of people did back then. So did Polycarp and Iranaeus and a lot of others, dying for refusing to denounce Christ is not the same as dying just because some lowlife criminal wants to kill you for the fun of it or to steal your possessions.

So in this fantasy world of your’s where nobody is allowed to defend themselves everyone is just supposed to die whenever someone wants to kill them? When somebody decides to go door to door raping and killing everyone they find so they can take whatever they want nobody is supposed to try to stop them? What we’re just supposed to start preaching the gospel to them and hope we can get enough words out to convert them before we get our heads blown off? How exactly is this fantasy world supposed to actually work?
 
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RDKirk

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I'm going to have to disagree that limiting magazines to 10 rounds of less is just another feel-good measure that doesn't do any good.

I agree that a well-trained, well-disciplined gun owner can change magazines in about a second, but what about the average low-life who wants to shoot up a classroom full of kids or a place of worship? Or someone who gets kicked out of a bar after having a few too many and comes back with their AR-15 in a fit of rage?

Here's an example of how several children were able to escape during the Sandy Hook shooting.

A 6-year-old boy killed in the massacre in Sandy Hook Elementary School shouted for his classmates to run while the gunman paused to reload and was shot moments later, the boy's mother said Friday.

The boy, Jesse Lewis, had just seen his teacher shot and urged the others to flee while the gunman, Adam Lanza, put a new clip into his semi-automatic rifle.

"He yelled, 'Run!' Adam reloaded and shot him in the head," said Scarlett Lewis, who learned details of the events inside the classroom from investigators who gathered accounts from children who survived.

"When I heard he used his last few seconds on earth to try to save his friends, I was not surprised," she said. "I am so incredibly proud of him."

In Jesse's classroom, which was led by teacher Victoria Soto, 11 students survived, including some who ran past Lanza when he stopped to reload.


Imagine if the shooter had to change magazines each time he fired 10 rounds. The death toll in that school shooting would have probably been much lower. There's no way Stephen Paddock could have shot 460+ people in Las Vegas if he had been changing magazines after every 10 shots, regardless of how experienced he was with firearms.

Every second is important in a crisis, and adding even a few can make a world of difference. Not only does a few seconds of pause to exchange magazines offer a chance to disarm or escape from a shooter, the more times a shooter has to change magazines, the more likely it is for them to mishandle or drop a magazine, especially an inexperienced shooter in a chaotic situation.
No, it would not have made any difference in either of those cases. Jesse said "run," and was sadly still killed...that second gained him nothing. Whether the 11 surviving students were saved all within that second (doubtful) or because Adam simply couldn't pull the trigger and aim effectively enough is arguable. Not even an AR-15 is magical.

It does mean the shooter is going to have to spend a few minutes learning how to change the magazine...no reason to think they won't take that few minutes to learn.
 
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