Why don't protestants bless Mary?

[(° ͡ ͜ ͡ʖ ͡ °) (ᵔᴥᵔʋ)]

If the Church weren't a hospital for sinners, with Our Lady as its Nurse, I'd be in hell!

If the church weren't a hospital for sinners, with Jesus as its head physician, you'd be in hell.

 

[(° ͡ ͜ ͡ʖ ͡ °) (ᵔᴥᵔʋ)]

Mary the mother of Jesus was described by God as “highly favored” (Luke 1:28). The phrase “highly favored” comes from a single Greek word, which essentially means “much grace.” Mary received God’s grace.

Grace is “unmerited favor,” meaning something we receive despite the fact that we do not deserve it. Mary needed grace from God just as the rest of us do. Mary herself understood this fact, as she declared in Luke 1:47, “. . . and my spirit rejoices in God my Savior. . .”

Mary recognized that she needed the Savior. The Bible never says that Mary was anyone but an ordinary human whom God chose to use in an extraordinary way. Yes, Mary was a righteous woman and favored (graced) by God (Luke 1:27-28). At the same time, Mary was a sinful human being who needed Jesus Christ as her Savior, just like everyone else (Ecclesiastes 7:20; Romans 3:23; 6:23; 1 John 1:8).

Mary did not have an “immaculate conception.” The Bible doesn’t suggest Mary’s birth was anything but a normal human birth. Mary was a virgin when she gave birth to Jesus (Luke 1:34-38), but the idea of the perpetual virginity of Mary is unbiblical. Matthew 1:25, speaking of Joseph, declares, “But he had no union with her until she gave birth to a son. And he gave Him the name Jesus.”

The word “until” clearly indicates that Joseph and Mary did have sexual union after Jesus was born. Joseph and Mary had several children together after Jesus was born. Jesus had four half-brothers: James, Joseph, Simon, and Judas (Matthew 13:55). Jesus also had half-sisters, although they are not named or numbered (Matthew 13:55-56). God blessed and graced Mary by giving her several children, which in that culture was the clearest indication of God’s blessing on a woman.

One time when Jesus was speaking, a woman in the crowd proclaimed, “Blessed is the womb that bore You and the breasts at which You nursed” (Luke 11:27). There was never a better opportunity for Jesus to declare that Mary was indeed worthy of praise and adoration. What was Jesus’ response? “On the contrary, blessed are those who hear the word of God and observe it” (Luke 11:28). To Jesus, obedience to God’s Word was more important than being the woman who gave birth to the Savior.

Nowhere in Scripture does Jesus, or anyone else, direct any praise, glory, or adoration towards Mary. Elizabeth, Mary’s relative, praised Mary in Luke 1:42-44, but her praise is based on the blessing of giving birth to the Messiah. It was not based on any inherent glory in Mary.

Mary was present at the cross when Jesus died (John 19:25). Mary was also with the apostles on the day of Pentecost (Acts 1:14). However, Mary is never mentioned again after Acts chapter 1. The apostles did not give Mary a prominent role. Mary’s death is not recorded in the Bible. Nothing is said about Mary ascending to heaven or having an exalted role there. As the earthly mother of Jesus, Mary should be respected, but she is not worthy of our worship or adoration.

The Bible nowhere indicates that Mary can hear our prayers or that she can mediate for us with God. Jesus is our only advocate and mediator in heaven (1 Timothy 2:5). If offered worship, adoration, or prayers, Mary would say the same as the angels: “Worship God!” (see Revelation 19:10; 22:9.) Mary herself sets the example for us, directing her worship, adoration, and praise to God alone: “My soul glorifies the Lord and my spirit rejoices in God my Savior, for He has been mindful of the humble state of His servant. From now on all generations will call me blessed, for the Mighty One has done great things for me — holy is His name” (Luke 1:46-49).

 

[Aldebaran]

Just don't complain when others disparage the Bible, as you are doing essentially the same thing to those who accept the authority of the Church.

Yes, if they accept the "authority" of the church in place of authority of God's own words. It seems that we have a difference of priorities here.

 

[Aldebaran]

If the Church weren't a hospital for sinners, with Our Lady as its Nurse, I'd be in hell!

If Jesus hadn't died for your your sin and you haven't accepted his sacrifice (and died prior to now), you'd be in hell.

 

[Aldebaran]

Mary the mother of Jesus was described by God as “highly favored” (Luke 1:28). The phrase “highly favored” comes from a single Greek word, which essentially means “much grace.” Mary received God’s grace.

Grace is “unmerited favor,” meaning something we receive despite the fact that we do not deserve it. Mary needed grace from God just as the rest of us do. Mary herself understood this fact, as she declared in Luke 1:47, “. . . and my spirit rejoices in God my Savior. . .”

Mary recognized that she needed the Savior. The Bible never says that Mary was anyone but an ordinary human whom God chose to use in an extraordinary way. Yes, Mary was a righteous woman and favored (graced) by God (Luke 1:27-28). At the same time, Mary was a sinful human being who needed Jesus Christ as her Savior, just like everyone else (Ecclesiastes 7:20; Romans 3:23; 6:23; 1 John 1:8).

Mary did not have an “immaculate conception.” The Bible doesn’t suggest Mary’s birth was anything but a normal human birth. Mary was a virgin when she gave birth to Jesus (Luke 1:34-38), but the idea of the perpetual virginity of Mary is unbiblical. Matthew 1:25, speaking of Joseph, declares, “But he had no union with her until she gave birth to a son. And he gave Him the name Jesus.”

The word “until” clearly indicates that Joseph and Mary did have sexual union after Jesus was born. Joseph and Mary had several children together after Jesus was born. Jesus had four half-brothers: James, Joseph, Simon, and Judas (Matthew 13:55). Jesus also had half-sisters, although they are not named or numbered (Matthew 13:55-56). God blessed and graced Mary by giving her several children, which in that culture was the clearest indication of God’s blessing on a woman.

One time when Jesus was speaking, a woman in the crowd proclaimed, “Blessed is the womb that bore You and the breasts at which You nursed” (Luke 11:27). There was never a better opportunity for Jesus to declare that Mary was indeed worthy of praise and adoration. What was Jesus’ response? “On the contrary, blessed are those who hear the word of God and observe it” (Luke 11:28). To Jesus, obedience to God’s Word was more important than being the woman who gave birth to the Savior.

Nowhere in Scripture does Jesus, or anyone else, direct any praise, glory, or adoration towards Mary. Elizabeth, Mary’s relative, praised Mary in Luke 1:42-44, but her praise is based on the blessing of giving birth to the Messiah. It was not based on any inherent glory in Mary.

Mary was present at the cross when Jesus died (John 19:25). Mary was also with the apostles on the day of Pentecost (Acts 1:14). However, Mary is never mentioned again after Acts chapter 1. The apostles did not give Mary a prominent role. Mary’s death is not recorded in the Bible. Nothing is said about Mary ascending to heaven or having an exalted role there. As the earthly mother of Jesus, Mary should be respected, but she is not worthy of our worship or adoration.

The Bible nowhere indicates that Mary can hear our prayers or that she can mediate for us with God. Jesus is our only advocate and mediator in heaven (1 Timothy 2:5). If offered worship, adoration, or prayers, Mary would say the same as the angels: “Worship God!” (see Revelation 19:10; 22:9.) Mary herself sets the example for us, directing her worship, adoration, and praise to God alone: “My soul glorifies the Lord and my spirit rejoices in God my Savior, for He has been mindful of the humble state of His servant. From now on all generations will call me blessed, for the Mighty One has done great things for me — holy is His name” (Luke 1:46-49).

Very good points and very well said! Amen to all of it!

 

[supersoldier71]

Forgive me if it's already been mentioned, but my issue is not extra-Biblical traditions, it's counter-Biblical traditions, passed down by an authority that seems at the very least, unnecessary given the work of the great High Priest on the cross.

There are no texts in Scripture that articulate any role for Mary in Redemption, Salvation or Sanctification, and to us Protestants, it is perilously close to idolatrous to place any human in any position that affects any of those functions which belong properly to the Father, Son and Holy Spirit of God.

 

[Meowzltov]

And the errors of the CC?

The Catholic Church has not errors in its dogma. Christ promised that the gates of hell would not prevail against His church.

 

[Meowzltov]

Forgive me if it's already been mentioned, but my issue is not extra-Biblical traditions, it's counter-Biblical traditions, passed down by an authority that seems at the very least, unnecessary given the work of the great High Priest on the cross.

There are no counter Biblical traditions, and I'm not sure why you would have problems with extra Biblical traditions.

 

[Meowzltov]

Yes, if they accept the "authority" of the church in place of authority of God's own words. It seems that we have a difference of priorities here.

We don't accept the authority of the Church "in place of" the Bible. We accept the authority of the Church "in addition to" the Bible. When the Church decides dogma, that is also God's own words. So yes it IS a difference of priorities-- you disparage God's own words.

 

[supersoldier71]

There are no counter Biblical traditions, and I'm not sure why you would have problems with extra Biblical traditions.

I have no issues with extra-Biblical. Counter Biblical? Matthew 23:8 and 23:9 and in point of fact, much of Jesus' earthly ministry would seem to indicate a distinct lack of the need for the sort of earthly hierarchies and traditions that Catholics require.

To my mind, ANY traditions that contradict what is given in the Biblical text are counter-Biblical.

We believe that the Bible is the perfect (in its original form), inerrant and complete Word of God; we believe further that only person worthy of veneration is God, and apart from Him, none are Holy, not one. We believe that the only proper worship should be directed at God alone, specifically person and works of Jesus Christ. We do not accept the validity of the Catholic Church's post-Biblical traditions, except, and only if they do not contradict what is given in the 66 books of the Old and New Testaments.

We will not agree on this.

 

[(° ͡ ͜ ͡ʖ ͡ °) (ᵔᴥᵔʋ)]

The Catholic Church has not errors in its dogma. Christ promised that the gates of hell would not prevail against His church.

That doesn't really answer the question. You cannot say the Roman Catholic Church is "the one true church" and that it has an "infallable" ability to intereptation scripture when all you can say is "there are no errors it its dogma" and everything else is up for question.

 

[supersoldier71]

Protestant thought holds that the Bible is the ultimate authority, and that no institution is above or co-equal with Biblical a
authority, and that is where we differ with Catholics. There are no Biblical examples of infallible men apart from Jesus Christ, who was fully God and fully man. We assert the the Bible is the God breathed, inerrant and complete, and is in fact a higher authority than any tradition or organization for the purposes of "teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness." We do not believe that any human that was ever born, apart from Jesus Christ (fully God and fully man) has the authority to add anything to the perfect and complete Old and New Testaments of Lord Jesus Christ.

We further hold that since all 66 books are fundamentally by and about Lord Jesus, to add anything above them would be dangerously close to proclaiming oneself co-equal with God. There are numerous examples throughout history where various church organizations have erred horribly; the Pope blessed slave ships; Southern Baptists stood arm-in-arm with segregationists and white supremacists; the sanctioned genocide of Native Americans: all of these were sanctioned on some level by some "religious" body, and all of them were wrong! There are far too many examples of these acts throughout history to think that any earthly organization is above them, and as such, the one infallible, perfect standard that I must measure everything else by is the inspired Word of God in the form of the Holy Scriptures.

If we follow the life and example of Jesus Christ and His disciples, we cannot be wrong.

 

[Grafted In]

That's exactly the way I believe.
A number of times recently I wrote that I believe the church, the one true church is invisible. Some have expressed a misunderstanding of what that means to me. I suspect that what the early mainstream churches believed about being the original church that Christ started was in error and that they still hold tight to today. But i believe that the real church, the body of believers as a whole, existed right along side of them hiding in plain sight. I don't mean to imply that there were not believers in the early traditional churches or that there were not a majority of the members of those church who were born again, but I think there was, in my opinion, perhaps a great number of believers who simply were not writen about nor who wrote about their faith as exists with the major denominations today who have huge volumes of writings that can be traced back to the first, second and third centuries.
I think they were somewhat like protestant churches of today who rely mostly on Scripture rather than the writings of members who took the time to put on paper the beliefs and traditions still held to today as being essencial to the entire body of believers.
What i'm trying to say is that any one group of Christians who believe they are the true church established by Jesus Christ is simply wrong, that ALL denominations are lacking in some way or another and simply do not or will not see it that way. Just my opinion.

 

[Aldebaran]

We don't accept the authority of the Church "in place of" the Bible. We accept the authority of the Church "in addition to" the Bible. When the Church decides dogma, that is also God's own words. So yes it IS a difference of priorities-- you disparage God's own words.

I've pointed out in past postings how these additions go against what is written. I asked Patricius about what happens to people who are saved by grace after they die, but never got an answer. He says only the holiest of the holy (the "saints" by Catholic definition) go to Heaven. So, what happens to those who are covered by the grace given to us by the death and resurrection of the Only Begotten Son? (BTW, those are the ones referred to in the bible as the saints)

 

[(° ͡ ͜ ͡ʖ ͡ °) (ᵔᴥᵔʋ)]

We don't accept the authority of the Church "in place of" the Bible. We accept the authority of the Church "in addition to" the Bible. When the Church decides dogma, that is also God's own words. So yes it IS a difference of priorities-- you disparage God's own words.

And who determines the intereptation of the bible and what parts of the bible should have authority?.........thank you. I rest my case. [emoji19]

 

[supersoldier71]

This feels like it's becoming--as these threads frequently do--a little too vitriolic and maybe a little less-than-loving. The rest of the world should know that we are His chosen people by our love (John 13:35), and so while I certainly disagree, I mean no offense, so perhaps it would be best if for the time being we all retreat to our "camps" and diligently pray that if we, each of us, is in error in any way, may the Spirit of God correct us and sanctify us.

Again, if I offended anyone, understand that it was unintentional.

God bless!

 

[Meowzltov]

I have no issues with extra-Biblical. Counter Biblical? Matthew 23:8 and 23:9 and in point of fact, much of Jesus' earthly ministry would seem to indicate a distinct lack of the need for the sort of earthly hierarchies and traditions that Catholics require.

To my mind, ANY traditions that contradict what is given in the Biblical text are counter-Biblical.

We believe that the Bible is the perfect (in its original form), inerrant and complete Word of God; we believe further that only person worthy of veneration is God, and apart from Him, none are Holy, not one. We believe that the only proper worship should be directed at God alone, specifically person and works of Jesus Christ. We do not accept the validity of the Catholic Church's post-Biblical traditions, except, and only if they do not contradict what is given in the 66 books of the Old and New Testaments.

We will not agree on this.

In Matthew 23:1-3 Jesus supports a religious hierarchy by stating the Pharisees sit on the seat of Moses (meaning they have teaching authority) and instructing his followers to do everything they teach. In addition, the NT clearly teaches ordination via the laying on of hands, and gives us the offices of deacon, presbyter, and bishop.

Again, the Catholic church doesn't have traditions which contradict what is given in the Biblical text. Now what DOES often happen is that we interpret the Bible differently than various Protestant churches.

By the way, saying the Bible is the "complete" and "inerrant" word of God is NOT in the scripture. These are TRADITIONS you inherited from the Catholic Church. The Bible itself has no Table of Contents, and only teaches that Scripture is INSPIRED.

 

[Meowzltov]

That doesn't really answer the question. You cannot say the Roman Catholic Church is "the one true church" and that it has an "infallable" ability to intereptation scripture when all you can say is "there are no errors it its dogma" and everything else is up for question.

Jason, it works how it works. If you don't like it, well, I guess that's why you aren't Catholic.

 

[Meowzltov]

I've pointed out in past postings how these additions go against what is written. I asked Patricius about what happens to people who are saved by grace after they die, but never got an answer. He says only the holiest of the holy (the "saints" by Catholic definition) go to Heaven. So, what happens to those who are covered by the grace given to us by the death and resurrection of the Only Begotten Son? (BTW, those are the ones referred to in the bible as the saints)

There are no "additions" that go against what is written in the Bible. However, what does often happen is that we interpret the Bible differently than Protestants.

I don't see why Patricius wouldn't answer. I probably just escaped his notice. We must be perfect to go to heaven. But those of us who are saved but still imperfect are purified in Purgatory, and so end up in heaven. IOW all the saints end up in heaven.

 

[Meowzltov]

And who determines the intereptation of the bible and what parts of the bible should have authority?.........thank you. I rest my case. [emoji19]

The Church determines the interpretation of the Bible, since the Church is guided by the Holy Spirit, which shall lead unto all truth. All of the Bible has authority.