Why don't Americans make more noise about their healthcare?

[bhsmte]

Most of us see general practitioners most of the time, not specialists.

And they dont see patients over 65?

 

[Thursday]

And they dont see patients over 65?

You didn't read the article.

 

[Uncle Siggy]

Another issue that seems to be effecting the cost of American healthcare is the way medications are packaged (too much when the max dosage is smaller) and rules from the DEA that will not allow medications that aren't going to be used to be "recycled" so to speak, I.E. quite a few good medications gets thrown away for no good reason...

 

[Uncle Siggy]

Well, you've got the floor. Tell us.

No the floor is yours, I'm just a Promulgator of Annoying Tidbits of Information...

 

[mark46]

Yes, medicare is a necessary evil.

We want to have a safety net for the disabled and poor.

However, it is not a great system, just the best we can do at this time.

Those who are able are better off buying their own health care or using what their employer offers.

I can only say that this is nonsense, from my experience, and that of many that I know. For a few years, both my wife and I have had Medicare and a supplemental plan. We have never had ANY issues of service, cost or management. And yes, we have had the occasion to use many, many kinds of services. I have never even had a deductible or a co-pay.

 

[TheNorwegian]

Is not the wage of doctors in the US also driving costs for medical care? I saw a stastics where the average US doctor makes 2.5 times as much as in my country (Norway) even though Norway has a significantly higher GDP per capita and in general higher costs of living. This must surely increase the total medical costs in the US

 

[miamited]

Is not the wage of doctors in the US also driving costs for medical care? I saw a stastics where the average US doctor makes 2.5 times as much as in my country (Norway) even though Norway has a significantly higher GDP per capita and in general higher costs of living. This must surely increase the total medical costs in the US

Hi norwegian,

Yes, that's true. But, it's not a single issue reason. It's a culmination of several factors that cause our medical expenses to be so much higher than most other countries. Doctor's charges, higher medicine costs, higher costs to operate state of the art hospital facilities, and the higher costs associated with using a middle man, insurance, in the total of a medical bill.

We have dozens, maybe hundreds, of medical insurance companies and they each one have their own claims department and loss assessment departments and billing departments, etc. There's a lot of overlapping and the people in each one of these multiple yet similar departments have to be paid. While single payer systems also have such departments, because of economies of scale, they operate at a slightly lower cost than does our system.

God bless you.
In Christ, Ted

 

[Extraneous]

Hebrews 5:11 of whom we have much to say, and hard to explain, since you have become dull of hearing.

Hebrews 13 Let brotherly love continue. 2 Do not forget to entertain strangers, for by so doing some have unwittingly entertained angels. 3 Remember the prisoners as if chained with them—those who are mistreated—since you yourselves are in the body also.

4 Marriage is honorable among all, and the bed undefiled; but fornicators and adulterers God will judge.

5 Let your conduct be without covetousness; be content with such things as you have. For He Himself has said, “I will never leave you nor forsake you.”[a] 6 So we may boldly say:

“The Lord is my helper;
I will not fear.
What can man do to me?”

 

[bhsmte]

Is not the wage of doctors in the US also driving costs for medical care? I saw a stastics where the average US doctor makes 2.5 times as much as in my country (Norway) even though Norway has a significantly higher GDP per capita and in general higher costs of living. This must surely increase the total medical costs in the US

I already mentioned this. Yes, doctors make much more in income, vs similar docs in other countries.

Keep in mind, medical students dont get their tuition subsidized by the government in the united states and many come out of med school, 300k in debt. Knowing the costs of the education, why would intelligent people enter the medical field, if they couldnt make enough money to make the investment, worthwhile?

 

[TheNorwegian]

I already mentioned this. Yes, doctors make much more in income, vs similar docs in other countries.

Keep in mind, medical students dont get their tuition subsidized by the government in the united states and many come out of med school, 300k in debt. Knowing the costs of the education, why would intelligent people enter the medical field, if they couldnt make enough money to make the investment, worthwhile?

Then it would make economic sense to subsidize medical school? If free education would slash doctor's wages with 50-70 % the return on investment would be fantastic

 

[Imperiuz]

You do not have to be very rich to use private clinics in Europe. There are many private clinics even in "Socialist" countries like Norway and Sweden. The point is that public health care is free if you cannot afford (or do not want) to go to a private hospital

When people point to us as "socialist", I think they refer to what Sweden was like in the 80's maybe (I guess it's kind of the same in Norway). Our "socialist" welfare system is really more corporatist. You have a public insurance, but you can go to a private doctor if you want to. It isn't free though (unlike for my relative who lives in North Ireland, ironically), going to the doctor typically costs maybe 50-60 $ in my experience. Dental and optical care are way more expensive, as those are not covered.

The same applies to our education system, every school (public or private) is essentially a charter school competing for students who are worth a sum of public money. It's free for the students, but the private schools are allowed to make money from what they get for each student. I hear you're a bit more restrictive on that in Norway though.

As for the quality of the services, those have collapsed in recent years and it's painful to watch the consequences. Why that is, well.. I don't want to ruin the thread.

 

[Maren]

Hi norwegian,

Yes, that's true. But, it's not a single issue reason. It's a culmination of several factors that cause our medical expenses to be so much higher than most other countries. Doctor's charges, higher medicine costs, higher costs to operate state of the art hospital facilities, and the higher costs associated with using a middle man, insurance, in the total of a medical bill.

We have dozens, maybe hundreds, of medical insurance companies and they each one have their own claims department and loss assessment departments and billing departments, etc. There's a lot of overlapping and the people in each one of these multiple yet similar departments have to be paid. While single payer systems also have such departments, because of economies of scale, they operate at a slightly lower cost than does our system.

God bless you.
In Christ, Ted

I might also add that the various insurance companies each have their own forms, requiring hospitals and doctors offices to have multiple version of forms, including different requirements as to how many forms are required, depending on the procedure and insurance covering it. So there is a lot more administrative work to ensure that the correct paperwork is done, and that it is done properly, for the company that will be paying.

 

[Peppermint Orange]

It is true that there is a good deal of waste and fraud in the health care system. As one former doctor told, she left the medical field and began work in an entirely different area once she realized medicine has little to do with health care. At the time I suspected she was talking about all the paper work that needed to be filled out for insurance and the government requirements. Now with all the reading I've done about our health care system I suspect she meant different.

If change is to happen in the health care industry it will come largely from the people/patients demanding greater results from hospitals, doctors and nurses. When patients will or if wake up I do not know. I was thinking of former President Kennedy's famous line when i read OPs question, "My fellow Americans, ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country."

Many people are sending out alarm signals about the problems. Some of the more prominent names in medical journal writing had this to say ~

http://drmalcolmkendrick.org/2015/08/27/the-augean-stables/

excerpt:

"....The database of medical research – everything until at least 2005 is a gigantic festering mess. It needs to be stripped out and cleansed.

Do you think this is too strong?

Well I shall now quote Dr Marcia Angell, Dr Richard Horton and Dr Richard Smith. Editors of, respectively, the New England Journal of Medicine, the Lancet and the British Medical Journal. The three highest impact factor journals in medical research.

‘It is simply no longer possible to believe much of the clinical research that is published, or to rely on the judgement of trusted physicians or authoritative medical guidelines. I take no pleasure in this conclusion, which I reached slowly and reluctantly over my two decades as editor of the New England Journal of Medicine.’ Marcia Angell.

‘The case against science is straightforward: much of the scientific literature, perhaps half, may simply be untrue. Afflicted by studies with small sample sizes, tiny effects, invalid exploratory analyses, and flagrant conflicts of interest, together with an obsession for pursuing fashionable trends of dubious importance, science has taken a turn towards darkness.’ Richard Horton

‘The poor quality of medical research is widely acknowledged, yet disturbingly the leaders of the medical profession seen only minimally concerned about the problems and make no apparent efforts to find a solution.’ Richard Smith

Who, in a position of power, will finally wake up and realise that the vast database of medical research stinks of bias and manipulation. Who can we call upon to take up the gigantic and painful task of clearing out the Augean stables?

1: http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0132382"

 

[bhsmte]

I might also add that the various insurance companies each have their own forms, requiring hospitals and doctors offices to have multiple version of forms, including different requirements as to how many forms are required, depending on the procedure and insurance covering it. So there is a lot more administrative work to ensure that the correct paperwork is done, and that it is done properly, for the company that will be paying.

In todays world of electronic medical records, this is not an issue, because providers submit their claims, electronically.