Why doesnt creationism need any data?

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dad

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Another creationist with eyes firmly shut. Dad won't even allow himself to consider evolution for a second.
Don't kid yourself. I out evo the evos. The rapid evolving from created kinds in the different state past explains all. Try to be open minded.


Now we can add dogmatic religious philosophy to the list.
Fossils with some similarity do not mean man came from monkeys or apes. That is the religious bit. Pot, meet kettle.

You have proven that evolution is science and creationism is dogmatic religious philosophy.
So in the absence of any proof for your shrill and godless evolution claims, you grasp at any straw and call it proof! Hilarious. Now you cite my posts as proof of your fantasies.

Can we add some honesty to the mix here?
 
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Loudmouth

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Science has NO way of checking.

Science does have a way to check for the age of the earth, a recent global flood, and shared ancestry between species. You ignore it claiming it is satanic or whatever avoidance mechanism kicks in at that moment.

Jesus really was born of a virgin in Bethlehem, etc etc etc etc etc etc and real people did see Him live and die and live again, as well as control nature, cure multitudes, etc etc etc etc.

All written by men. You have put your trust in men.
 
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cubinity

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The context was about the bible. Science has NO way of checking. I do. I see the fulfilled prophesies. Jesus really was born of a virgin in Bethlehem, etc etc etc etc etc etc and real people did see Him live and die and live again, as well as control nature, cure multitudes, etc etc etc etc.

To deny is futile.

For the sake that I would like to repeat your study of checking these facts, can you please provide a concise record of your activities. I think it would help a lot if others are able to corroberate your findings with independent research of their own.
 
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sandwiches

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I see the fulfilled prophesies. Jesus really was born of a virgin in Bethlehem, etc etc etc etc etc etc and real people did see Him live and die and live again, as well as control nature, cure multitudes, etc etc etc etc.
I agree. No way way of checking if ANY of that is true, indeed. You keep saying you know it's true but you fail to provide the evidence you used to come to your conclusion.

To deny is futile.
You have provided nothing to deny. All you keep saying is that Bible is true because the Bible is true. Until you get out of your cycle, there's nothing but hot air coming out of you.
 
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Loudmouth

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The rapid evolving from created kinds in the different state past explains all.

It doesn't explain why humans and chimps share over 200,000 orthologous ERV's. Common ancestry does explain this.

Try to be open minded.

So says the guy who refuses to consider transitional fossils.


Fossils with some similarity do not mean man came from monkeys or apes.

So what types of fossils should we see if men came from monkeys? Should we see fossils with no similarity whatsoever?


So in the absence of any proof for your shrill and godless evolution claims, you grasp at any straw and call it proof! Hilarious. Now you cite my posts as proof of your fantasies.

I am not the one who calls transitional fossils proof. That would be creationists. They claim that a lack of transitional fossils disproves evolution. I can only surmise from this stance that the presence of transitional fossils does prove evolution. Or are you saying that creationists will reject evolution no matter what evidence is observed?

Can we add some honesty to the mix here?

As soon as you stop rejecting evidence because you deem it satanic.
 
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dad

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Christian theology is man's reasoning about scriptures written by men. My point is proven.
Who cares about 'theology' Strawman. That doesn't help your not having any chance of being able to know whether God's Spirit moved the writers. If He did, and they claim He did, then they are no more responsible for the bible, than your keyboard is for your posts! You just move the keys. (one assumes)



You have shifted the burden of proof. It is up to you to show that God DID write it through a proxy, and do so without using man's reasoning.
No that is a done deal. We saw the risen Christ, lots of us, and a record was made. God ensured it was impeccable, and holds men responsible to believe it, it is so good. To deny it is last vile and purposeful Thursdayism.

It is you that has to invent fantasies so that you can ignore the scientific evidence.
There is no science evidence for evolution or against the bible. Your same state religion is exposed, in case you missed it. All your so called dates are now rubbish.
 
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dad

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It doesn't explain why humans and chimps share over 200,000 orthologous ERV's. Common ancestry does explain this.
Yes it does! The viri (or precursors) got around and transferred in ways not possible in the present state.
So says the guy who refuses to consider transitional fossils.
I consider them. You have no idea what is transitional or what was a created kind! And you have no way of knowing. If some fish did grow legs to adapt to some area where it needed to cross land, so what?? The rapid evolving from the created kinds covers any and all real adapting and evolving.

So what types of fossils should we see if men came from monkeys? Should we see fossils with no similarity whatsoever?
We should see nothing, because there would be no universe or no you. If y'all could stop straining at imaginary evolutionary imaginary nats long enough, and step back, you might see the big picture.



I am not the one who calls transitional fossils proof. That would be creationists. They claim that a lack of transitional fossils disproves evolution. I can only surmise from this stance that the presence of transitional fossils does prove evolution. Or are you saying that creationists will reject evolution no matter what evidence is observed?
This one will reject any credit to godless evolving in a present state with old ages. But I have no problem with all sorts of evolving having gone on in real time, and in the real world of that day.


You see, folks like you only have a chance on a forum like EVC, where they ban any discussion that they can't deal with, or want to consider science. Here, you have no chance at all.
 
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dad

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For the sake that I would like to repeat your study of checking these facts, can you please provide a concise record of your activities. I think it would help a lot if others are able to corroberate your findings with independent research of their own.
What facts?? Activities?
 
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dad

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I agree. No way way of checking if ANY of that is true, indeed. You keep saying you know it's true but you fail to provide the evidence you used to come to your conclusion.


You have provided nothing to deny. All you keep saying is that Bible is true because the Bible is true. Until you get out of your cycle, there's nothing but hot air coming out of you.

The records of real people were kept. It is insane to pretend that Peter, Anna, Mary, Joseph, John the Baptist, Elizabeth, the apostles, Paul, and etc etc etc all were lying.

The prophesies were checked! You are left with being unable to check anything spiritual, so you can't claim that nothing of the spiritual was involved in God's word to man. Period.
 
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dad

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Science does have a way to check for the age of the earth, a recent global flood, and shared ancestry between species. You ignore it claiming it is satanic or whatever avoidance mechanism kicks in at that moment.
False. You have no way. Ignore that at your own risk. Your pathetic present state models of the future and past are worthless and in no way science in any real sense of the word.

All written by men. You have put your trust in men.
You don't know that, and have no way of knowing that. The evidences of fulfilled prophesy, and the life and resurrection of Christ PROVE that it was not of men as you darkly insinuate here.
 
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AV1611VET

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This is my biggest pet peeve about theism in general, to be honest. Lack of consistency and honesty. It seems that the same standards they use to determine accuracy or truth about anything about the world every single day of their lives, all of the sudden is inapplicable to a particular book or belief. Every single standard of evidence they demand and use for every other single decision in their daily lives is simply insufficient or inadequate for their particular brand of theism.
You all sound jealous to me.

It bugs you that we walk by faith in a Book that has not changed since It was written, rather than walk by sight in books that change with each copyright, doesn't it?
 
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cubinity

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You all sound jealous to me.

It bugs you that we walk by faith in a Book that has not changed since It was written, rather than walk by sight in books that change with each copyright, doesn't it?

Substantially. I think you meant to say the Bible has not changed substantially since it was written. There is emmense proof it has changed.
 
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sandwiches

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You all sound jealous to me.

It bugs you that we walk by faith in a Book that has not changed since It was written, rather than walk by sight in books that change with each copyright, doesn't it?

Not jealous but it is frustrating to me that when discussing these matters, most theists expect to be exempt from the same standards of evidence they demand from others. And yes, even you use evidence, unless you think the Bible isn't evidence of your deity.
 
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sandwiches

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The records of real people were kept. It is insane to pretend that Peter, Anna, Mary, Joseph, John the Baptist, Elizabeth, the apostles, Paul, and etc etc etc all were lying.
Why is it insane that the writers could've exaggerated, made mistakes, misunderstood some things, or flat out lied?

The prophesies were checked! You are left with being unable to check anything spiritual, so you can't claim that nothing of the spiritual was involved in God's word to man. Period.
I can claim that because you have shown nothing you say to be true, dad. Nothing.
 
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Loudmouth

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You all sound jealous to me.

It bugs you that we walk by faith in a Book that has not changed since It was written, rather than walk by sight in books that change with each copyright, doesn't it?

Why would I be jealous of a stance that is based on a book as part of a dogmatic religion incapable of changing in the face of contradictory evidence? The whole reason that science is worthy of consideration is that it does change when the evidence requires it to.
 
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Astridhere

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That's what creationists keep telling me. All I am asking for is some consistency. If creationists are going to bash scientific theories as the "teachings of man" then they need to bash christian theology for the same reason. If creationists do indeed see something valuable in the reasoning of man then they need to find a new criticism of evolution. Take your pick.

If one is an atheist I can understand they have no choice but to listen to the reasonings of man.

However if one does believe in a biblical God, why would they believe that God would give insight into the people he used as His scribes only to allow his work to be changed to the point of uselessness.

For me, the bible was never meant to be a scientific text. It was meant to be a spiritual guide. I believe that God made sure that His work and our guide remained in tact and usefull today.

Just like evolutionists query still exactly what drives evolution, particularly with new info into HGT, functional ervs and epigentic inheritance, creationists may still query which creationist paradigm is correct.

Evolutionists need faith in mankinds evolutionary reasoning, which at times are truly non plausible scenarios and is often based on non stable data. I as a creationist believe in the words of the bible, because the evidence of a higher intelligence lies within. This link speaks to some.
Scientific Facts in The Bible

There are also many finds that continue to validate biblical stories that were only ever seen as myth. The pools of shalome have ben found and many other finds that support the biblical stories.

2,000-year-old burial box could reveal location of the family of Caiaphas


I see creationism as more stable. I see that most creationists do not need to change their view with increasing data. It all points to creation and it supports creationist paradigms without the need for additional and non plausible scenarios to explain it.

All the data evolutionists produce as evidence for evolution can also be interpreted by hypothesis that simply support creation. eg there will be no junk in DNA. ERVS must have function and are not relics.,There are no vestigal organs. Kinds will be found fully formed with no intermediate between kinds eg terrestrail tetrapod footprints 395mya, birds 212mya, all the life that arose in the Cambrian. Some of these relate to past claims that evolutionists heralded as strong evidence against creationism. However as time passes all the more are creationists predictions verified and validated. As more time passes all the more will creationist predictions be validated. The only question left for me is about the accuracy of dating. In the same way as evolutionists still have faith in evolution despite some unanswered questions, likewise creationsist have such solid evidence for the creation that it does not matter, to me anyway, which creationist version is the truth. It may be a mix.

Mostly we are warned about the reasonings of mankind. Therefore if I have to choose which view to have faith in, I will choose the men that showed amazing scientific insights beyond their day as evidence of a divine author that knew what he was doing, rather than men that produce an unstable evolutionary paradigm.
 
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Loudmouth

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False. You have no way.

Radiometric dating, comparison of ERV's, and the list goes on. That you refuse to look at them does not change the fact that these checks do exist.

Your pathetic present state models of the future and past are worthless and in no way science in any real sense of the word.

And your mind closes once again.

You don't know that, and have no way of knowing that.

The bible wasn't written by men? You want to check that again? Did cats write it?

The evidences of fulfilled prophesy, and the life and resurrection of Christ PROVE that it was not of men as you darkly insinuate here.

So says the writings of men. Why don't you also claim that Paul Bunyan had a blue ox because somebody wrote it down.
 
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Loudmouth

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If one is an atheist I can understand they have no choice but to listen to the reasonings of man.

However if one does believe in a biblical God, . . .

That belief is a reasoning of man.

Just like evolutionists query still exactly what drives evolution, particularly with new info into HGT, functional ervs and epigentic inheritance, creationists may still query which creationist paradigm is correct.

So what evidence, if found, would falsify any of these creationist paradigms?

Evolutionists need faith in mankinds evolutionary reasoning,

Nope. All you need to do is test the hypotheses yourself. No faith needed. That is the advantage of science. You don't have to trust anyone. You can do all of the experiments yourself.

I as a creationist believe in the words of the bible, because the evidence of a higher intelligence lies within.

That is completely based on the reasoning of men, something you reject.


I don't doubt that you can twist scriptures to fit any fact you see fit.


There are also many finds that continue to validate biblical stories that were only ever seen as myth. The pools of shalome have ben found and many other finds that support the biblical stories.

The city of London has been found, so I guess you will accept the Harry Potter scriptures as true, right?

I see creationism as more stable. I see that most creationists do not need to change their view with increasing data.

There is no evidence that would make them change their view, as your own posts have shown. That is the problem. Creationism is a dogmatic religion that can't change even when the evidence runs counter to creationist claims.

It all points to creation and it supports creationist paradigms without the need for additional and non plausible scenarios to explain it.

What evidence, if found, would not point to creationism? What mixture of features in a fossil would falsify creationism, and why? What type of shared genetic marker between humans and other apes would falsify creationism? Before you make the claim that the evidence points to creationism you have to be willing to describe evidence that would not point towards creationism.

All the data evolutionists produce as evidence for evolution can also be interpreted by hypothesis that simply support creation.

Again, same question as above.

eg there will be no junk in DNA. ERVS must have function and are not relics.,There are no vestigal organs.

Where have you shown any of this? The human vermiform appendix does not aid in the digestion of cellulose. That makes it vestigial. Unless you can show that the appendix helps to digest cellulose it will continue to be vestigial.

Kinds will be found fully formed with no intermediate between kinds

There is no fossil that you would accept as transitional. You have admitted as much. Sorry, but dogma is not evidence.

eg terrestrail tetrapod footprints 395mya, birds 212mya, all the life that arose in the Cambrian.

What about them? How did you determine that these fossils were left by species that did not have ancestors from earlier time periods?

However as time passes all the more are creationists predictions verified and validated.

What predictions, and how were they validated? Where did creationists predict that tetrapod footprints would be found in 395 million year old sediments? Care to point to that paper?

Mostly we are warned about the reasonings of mankind. Therefore if I have to choose which view to have faith in, I will choose the men that showed amazing scientific insights beyond their day as evidence of a divine author that knew what he was doing, rather than men that produce an unstable evolutionary paradigm.

Are these the same authors who thought putting sheep and goats in front of a striped pole would cause them to give birth to striped offspring?
 
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Split Rock

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You all sound jealous to me.

It bugs you that we walk by faith in a Book that has not changed since It was written, rather than walk by sight in books that change with each copyright, doesn't it?

But, you told us that the KJV1611 bible has changed. It has been "polished" into the fifth edition, which is now "perfect".. until the sixth edition comes along.. right? ;)
 
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