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CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.
Why doesn't anyone post here anymore?
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Lanakila
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It seems to be a waste of time really. I am not a scientist, and although I do understand why I am a creationist, I can't seem to convince anyone here of anything. Big fat waste of time.
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It also helps if you understand your subject matter. People who, for instance, don't understand biology at all, don't make convincing arguments in regards to evolution.
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Lack of faith in God is not caused by a lack of information, it is a moral decision. So, it is senseless to try to convince someone of God's reality if they have already decided that they don't want to believe in God. They ignore the facts anyway.
Debating unbelievers is a huge waste of time.
Debating unbelievers is a huge waste of time.
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Faith God is not caused by information, it is a moral decision. So, it is senseless to try to convince someone of God's unreality if they have already decided that they want to believe in God. They ignore the facts anyway.
Debating believers is a huge waste of time.
So nice to have you here, lambslove. If it wasn't for you, I'd never know what I thought.
Debating believers is a huge waste of time.
So nice to have you here, lambslove. If it wasn't for you, I'd never know what I thought.
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If it's that easy, then I will start to believe tomorrow. And if I get some spare time before Christmas I will start working on my Santa beliefe as well. When did you decide to believe in God, btw?
Choccy
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MSBS
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Lambslove, you've got to be one of the most caustic posters on this entire forum. I've never seen you post anything other then smart alec comments and hateful attacks. You certainly don't help the image of Christianity one wit.
BTW, why assume everyone that agrees with evolution or other aspects of mainstream science is an unbeliever? One thing that hanging around on these boards has made me realize more than anything else is that evolution and main stream science versus young earth creationism is a false conflict. Belief in YEC is not an essential part of Christianity, nor should it be a litmus test for Christians. I'll give you that many Christians are YECs, but many are not.
A friend and lab mate of mine (we both are trying to finish our masters thesis and spend a lot of time in the lab together) is a Christian-- his position on these things is that the evidence supports main stream science when it comes to cosmology, biology, etc., but that this in no way takes away from the message of Christianity. As he puts it, the bible is authoritative, necessary, and sufficient for his beliefs, but to disregard what his senses and reason tell him about life and the universe is foolish. I'm much more impressed by his arguments about Christianity then yours. He has a solid science background and doesn't look at science as being in conflict with Christianity, but as an adjunct to his understanding of creation.
That being said, I have to say I don't really understand the hatred that many people here have for science. It's not dogmatic and holds no essential doctrines of religious belief. It's a tool used to research and explore. If in the course of that exploration scientists have discovered something that you feel contradicts your interpretation of the bible or the doctrine of your specific sect, have you ever even considered the possibility that your interpretation might be at fault? Not the scripture or the science, but your understanding?
BTW, why assume everyone that agrees with evolution or other aspects of mainstream science is an unbeliever? One thing that hanging around on these boards has made me realize more than anything else is that evolution and main stream science versus young earth creationism is a false conflict. Belief in YEC is not an essential part of Christianity, nor should it be a litmus test for Christians. I'll give you that many Christians are YECs, but many are not.
A friend and lab mate of mine (we both are trying to finish our masters thesis and spend a lot of time in the lab together) is a Christian-- his position on these things is that the evidence supports main stream science when it comes to cosmology, biology, etc., but that this in no way takes away from the message of Christianity. As he puts it, the bible is authoritative, necessary, and sufficient for his beliefs, but to disregard what his senses and reason tell him about life and the universe is foolish. I'm much more impressed by his arguments about Christianity then yours. He has a solid science background and doesn't look at science as being in conflict with Christianity, but as an adjunct to his understanding of creation.
That being said, I have to say I don't really understand the hatred that many people here have for science. It's not dogmatic and holds no essential doctrines of religious belief. It's a tool used to research and explore. If in the course of that exploration scientists have discovered something that you feel contradicts your interpretation of the bible or the doctrine of your specific sect, have you ever even considered the possibility that your interpretation might be at fault? Not the scripture or the science, but your understanding?
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Defender of the Faith 777
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If God were to write, "I'm up here, MSBS (whatever your name really is)", then it would only be temporary, and eventually it would fade off. It will be explained away, and you would find a way to not choose to believe God.
God gives us JUST ENOUGH evidence for those who WANT to believe to believe, and those who do not want to believe, to choose not to.
Yes, it is a decision. No one is asked to commit intellectual suicide by trusting Christ as their Savior.
God gives us JUST ENOUGH evidence for those who WANT to believe to believe, and those who do not want to believe, to choose not to.
Yes, it is a decision. No one is asked to commit intellectual suicide by trusting Christ as their Savior.
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MSBS
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I don't see where you get that from what I posted. As I said, I've resolved any conflict between science and christianity as existing only in the minds of the people that decide that they are in conflict, not as being an essential component of either. I'm not seeking to deny God-- when all is said and done being able to dismiss this conflict allows me to better examine christianity and its messages, don't you think?
That is kind of my point. Christianity doesn't demand intellectual suicide, but some Christians do. To make it clear, just because someone is a Christian they don't get to speak for Christianity as a whole. The message of Christianity isn't about the age of the universe or about the diversity of life, is it? Aren't there some more important points to be made?
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I agree with MSBS.I personally know many scientists who are committed christians and I respect them for beliefs and they find no moral contradiction between mainstream science and their religious beliefs.In fact science strengthens their beliefs when they look at the order and complexity of the universe.
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