Why does this seem to keep happening here?

[spiritfilledjm]

Without fail, nearly every post I see posted in this sub-forum, again without fail, seems to have someone that doesn't seem believe in the manifested gifts and being active today, posts in a thread here with some sort of snarky remark about the gifts or maybe I'm just taking them as such. So, despite the fact that I'm not an advisor or mod or whatever, I'm going to post the House Rules found in the "Statement of Purpose" found at the top of this sub-forum.

I remember that way back when one couldn't even post in sub-forums where they didn't subscribe to that doctrine or belief system. I'm not sure if some are just scouring new posts without noticing the areas that they are in or what, but it's very annoying and discouraging when I see one ask a question, expecting an answer from folks who subscribe to the same beliefs and then they get met with someone saying, essentially, that they're not for today or stop worshiping the gifts or something.

House Rules:
All posts within this faith community must adhere to the site wide rules found here (Community Rules). In addition, if you are not a member of this faith group, you may not debate issues or teach against its theology. You may post in fellowship. Active promotion of views contrary to the established teachings of this group will be considered off topic. This Forum does not recognize promotion of unorthodox theology teaching threads.

 

[maintenance man]

Maybe a better notice at the top of the post would help? Something like this...

Why does this seem to keep happening here?
Your are in "Spirit-Filled/Charismatic" forum - Please read rules before you post
Discussion in started by spiritfilledjm, Today at 5:31 PM.

 

[NothingIsImpossible]

I'm not part of your denomination but the problem is on the main page you can see new topics that are created. Most people just see a new topic and enter it and debate without even seeing what section its in first.

 

[Anto9us]

This subforum should be a "safe area" free from Cessationists coming in -- I thik the Sign Gifts sub-forum elsewhere is as well.

But NothingIsImpossible is correct -- people just dive into a new thread -- and Cessationists gonna Cessationate.

 

[spiritfilledjm]

This subforum should be a "safe area" free from Cessationists coming in -- I thik the Sign Gifts sub-forum elsewhere is as well.

But NothingIsImpossible is correct -- people just dive into a new thread -- and Cessationists gonna Cessationate.

Really the whole spiritual gifts forum is honestly "Spirit filled/charismatic II" despite the rules lol. Also, cessationists gonna cessationate...stealing that...with love of course

 

[Anto9us]

You are more than welcome to the phrase "cessationists gonna cessationate", spiritfilledjm !
Also, do not forget the phrase "The Cesspool of Cessationism" that I created as I left one of the threads where the naysayers were naysaying!

Up til yesterday, I thought there was a Spiritual Gifts forum that did NOT allow discussion of 'sign gifts' -- then I saw a whole subforum of it for Sign Gifts - surely that one and this one here should be safe houses for charismatics.

 

[Anto9us]

I am going to pass on a story from my past -- in the mid-70's when I was a college student -- I went regularly to a Christian Coffeehouse.

The SIGN OF THE FISH Coffeehouse was a two-story house in a part of town away from everything. I was a REGULAR there; REGULARS got there early, we had a prayer meeting prior to the "official opening" and people would come in - we regulars would witness to them...

We were forbidden by the Director (himself just a college student like us) to discuss Tongues -- we could not discuss the Baptism of the Holy Spirit in any way whatsoever.

Myself, Rick and Bruce agreed on this policy (though charismatics ourselves) - we gave our word that we would not discuss GETTING THE GHOST while on the premises.

But our word was NOT ENOUGH for the Director -- he wanted to convince us of the Cessationist position.

Early one evening, before the prayer meeting that preceded the arrival of the general public, the Director was showing everyone his new LEATHER BIBLE COVER -- it was a grand thing indeed, and everyone was OOOIng and AHHHing over it -- three little belts that fastened it, miniature belt-loops, we all went gaga over his new Bible cover.

So the 'prayer meeting' or 'staff meeting' prior to opening to the public turned into another chance for the Director to preach Cessationism to all of us (after all the OOOing and AHHHing about his new leather Bible cover had died down).

I sat at the table as the Director's eyes bored into mine -- right at me he was preaching and I knew what was coming -- he was gonna RAM IT HOME about "the Perfect" being the completed Bible.

"And what was it that we have now that caused tongues to cease?" and he held his Bible with both hands -- shoved it out at me -- and held it a foot from my face and shouted

"THIS !!"

And Rick immediately quipped:

"What? Your LEATHER BIBLE COVER?"

The meeting was dismissed without prayer, Rick, Bruce and I were in hysterics and somehow made it to a study room upstairs, shut the door and just fell about the place. We laughed until tears rolled down our faces. We knew we had to get serious and go witness to people coming in soon, but we couldn't stop laughing. When we were just about normal, some one would say "leather Bible cover!" or "The Perfect!" and we would go down again and roll some more. I never laughed so hard and so long before or since.

 

[Anto9us]

So, as I understand it now, there is this section and a Sign Gifts subforum under Spiritual Gifts which is under Spiritual Growth, and these two places should be free from the cesspool of cessationism.

It seems that Prophecy is looked on as different from Tongues and Word of Knowledge.

 

[Anto9us]

It seems to me there are two main passages of Scripture involved:

Mar 16:17
And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;

Mar 16:18
They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.

----

1Co 13:8
Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.

1Co 13:9
For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.

1Co 13:10
But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.

So the GIFTS involved in Mark are Tongues and Healing; the GIFTS involved in 1 Corinthians (that one day will CEASE) are prophecy, tongues and word of knowledge. 1 Cor 13:10 is the verse used often by Cesspoolers to prove that tongues for today are not valid, although not all Cessationists hang their position on THE PERFECT (complete, mature, Gr teleios) being the completed New Testament; most of them do.

Some Cessationists throw in APOSTLES as something that has CEASED - some confuse the word Apostle with Disciple -- saying there were only 12. No, there were more than 12 Apostles designated so in New Testament.

There are diverse kinds of Tongues.

 

[Anto9us]

How Many Apostles in the NT -- 12 or 25?

An article on HOW MANY APOSTLES?

 

[Anto9us]

https://renner.org/how-many-apostles-are-named-in-the-new-testament/

This article has 83 apostles.

 

[Anto9us]

To me, Cessationists are "Blind Men Describing the Elephant".

They focus on one part only of the scriptures about tongues, for instance, and never see the whole elephant.

Blind Men and the Elephant

 

[Hieronymus]

Just don't let your hunger for miracles override your discernment.
I see that happen a lot though...
Especially in Charismatic and WoF circles.

 

[NothingIsImpossible]

I try not to judge anyone for what they believe in the bible because in the end these things are not what determines if your making it to heaven. So arguing about them with someone of a different denomination is just silly and causes brother to hate brother.

 

[Boidae]

As a Catholic (I am not Lutheran as I have gone back to the Catholic church) I would not say that these things have ceased. I have how ever said that I myself do notbspeak/pray in tongues nor do I believe that all can. I myself do not heal, nor do I believe that all can.

The Spirit gives the gifts to whom he will and not everyone gets them.

 

[spiritfilledjm]

Just don't let your hunger for miracles override your discernment.
I see that happen a lot though...
Especially in Charismatic and WoF circles.

What's sad is that it seems that any time someone talks about an experience they had with the manifested gifts, several folks will automatically assume that the person is just seeking the gifts and not the giver and throw out the verse about having faith without seeing. Which makes it seems that folks forget that the holy spirit is God.

Not saying you've forgotten this yourself btw, just saying that some are so quick to assume this even when they dont mention that they were listening to some charismatic preacher or one who frequently claims that miracles are being done through them.

I wholeheartedly agree though. The act of chasing after signs and wonders and those that they operate through and not the one who allows the signs and wonders is what caused me to backslide and leave the charismatic movement and several years later, christianity.

 

[Hieronymus]

What's sad is that it seems that any time someone talks about an experience they had with the manifested gifts, several folks will automatically assume that the person is just seeking the gifts and not the giver and throw out the verse about having faith without seeing. Which makes it seems that folks forget that the holy spirit is God.

There is a great risk in assuming every miracle is from God though.
God and his angels are NOT the only forces out there in the unseen realm that can interact with our reality.
This is the discernment i often see lacking in the typical 'miracle chasing' circles.
They seem to think when it's supernatural it is by definition of God.
And never mind their views on what the Bible teaches. That often seems to fly out the window with it.
These people want empowerment, not humbling before the Lord.
These people want spiritual ecstasy, not repentance and walking with God.
These people want their part of God's Kingdom on Earth NOW.
These people condemn those who plea for discernment and humility.
These people accuse those of blaspheming the Holy Spirit when you try to make them aware of potential deception.

I guess you can tell i've had a few too many debates with some people... Sorry..

Not saying you've forgotten this yourself btw, just saying that some are so quick to assume this even when they dont mention that they were listening to some charismatic preacher or one who frequently claims that miracles are being done through them.

Well, i may be too far on the opposite side in this. I don't know.
Thus far, in my life, i have only seen and experienced supernatural things that were NOT of God.
Maybe a few subtle things i could ascribe to God, but nothing undeniable.
And what i've seen from the claims people make about things that God does through His Holy Spirit, through humans, especially with large crowds, i find unconvincing. A lot of scams too.
People being talked into being possessed and then being exorcised on stage...
People laying on the floor making animal noises and having spasms..
Devilish laughter, crowd hypnosis by the preacher, etcetera...
"Experiencing"
Experiencing WHAT exactly??

I wholeheartedly agree though. The act of chasing after signs and wonders and those that they operate through and not the one who allows the signs and wonders is what caused me to backslide and leave the charismatic movement and several years later, christianity.

Well, with all the things wrong in Christianity, i just never joined...
That's probably not good either..
I'm just an internet Christian.

Sorry about the ranting..
Not my best season atm..

 

[spiritfilledjm]

There is a great risk in assuming every miracle is from God though.
God and his angels are NOT the only forces out there in the unseen realm that can interact with our reality.
This is the discernment i often see lacking in the typical 'miracle chasing' circles.
They seem to think when it's supernatural it is by definition of God.
And never mind their views on what the Bible teaches. That often seems to fly out the window with it.
These people want empowerment, not humbling before the Lord.
These people want spiritual ecstasy, not repentance and walking with God.
These people want their part of God's Kingdom on Earth NOW.
These people condemn those who plea for discernment and humility.
These people accuse those of blaspheming the Holy Spirit when you try to make them aware of potential deception.

I guess you can tell i've had a few too many debates with some people... Sorry..
Well, i may be too far on the opposite side in this. I don't know.
Thus far, in my life, i have only seen and experienced supernatural things that were NOT of God.
Maybe a few subtle things i could ascribe to God, but nothing undeniable.
And what i've seen from the claims people make about things that God does through His Holy Spirit, through humans, especially with large crowds, i find unconvincing. A lot of scams too.
People being talked into being possessed and then being exorcised on stage...
People laying on the floor making animal noises and having spasms..
Devilish laughter, crowd hypnosis by the preacher, etcetera...
"Experiencing"
Experiencing WHAT exactly??
Well, with all the things wrong in Christianity, i just never joined...
That's probably not good either..
I'm just an internet Christian.

Sorry about the ranting..
Not my best season atm..

Believe me, I understand what you're saying. Thankfully I was spared the more...outrageous..."manifestations" however I was in a crowd of miracle chasing Christians for a while. I got accused of blaspheming the holy spirit when I was skeptical of a guy who claims to get slick with oil and gave gold dust appear on him when "in the glory" and when it came to deliverance I was told that because I didnt feel the urge to be delivered from something...then I needed to be delivered from something and the only way was through a multi week course and then a conference and got in trouble (I was in an internship) when I pointed out to the "mentor" that according to the bible all one should need to do is tell the spirit to leave In jesus name and/or pray and fast and have faith. Ugh

 

[Hieronymus]

Gold dust and "in the glory" sounds a lot like Joshua Mills (if i recall his name correctly).

I was shocked, when i came to the Faith, by what a mess it is within Christianity, or should i say "Christianity".
No wonder people either turn away or find it all laughable or evil.
But what have i got to show for my faith? Very little...
I'm a lonely brother.

The paranormal stuff all stopped though, when i changed into a believer in God / Jesus.
Not that i was possessed, but i was open to any spirit..
I was one of those new age buddhist types. Meditation and smoking weed..
It made me very arrogant and egocentric too..

Anyway, off topic...
Nice talking to you.
God bless

 

[NBB]

God can do things to you, the devil too, we need to distinguish from who it is.
Some things are clear though, when you get filled with the Holy spirit, its undeniable the experience, we can feel the glory of God too, we can drink of the water of life, we can feel his presence, all this is very good, it only increases your faith in God. And should be natural that God does this kind of things to his childs, supernatural spiritual things.

Not only is boring to live a life with the 'bible only' mentality, we should be more desperate to get something from God himself!
For me if i don't receive something from God at least something very little in too much time, i get the impression he is not with me enough 'in the desert' as it should be, and start to get a little desperate seeking him.