Why does the Gospel contain nothing about believing Yeshua is God?

[Clare73]

John 1:18
18No one has seen God at any time. The only begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, He has declared Him.

The Greek reads: "God no man has seen never; (the) only begotten God ) (theos) the (one) being in the bosom of the Father, that one declared him."

 

[Runningman]

The Greek reads: "God no man has seen never; (the) only begotten God ) (theos) the (one) being in the bosom of the Father, that one declared him."

Apparently not. The Bible says he’s the Son of God.

John 20:31
31but these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that believing you may have life in His name.

John bent over backwards to try to tell you who Yeshua is. You keep getting confused by John 1:1,14. It uses personification to describe the word, but it’s actually just speaking of God manifesting with His words.

Here’s an example:

Proverbs 1:20
20Wisdom calls aloud outside;
She raises her voice in the open squares.

It’s meant to be poetic.

Read 1 John 1. John once again describes the beginning but this time gives you more information, saying Yeshua was manifested through God’s word. This is something they witnessed.

This isn’t referring to the literal beginning of creation. John and the others weren’t there to witness that. It’s referring to the beginning of Yeshua.

1 John 1:1-3
1That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, concerning the Word of life— 2the life was manifested, and we have seen, and bear witness, and declare to you that eternal life which was with the Father and was manifested to us— 3that which we have seen and heard we declare to you, that you also may have fellowship with us; and truly our fellowship is with the Father and with His Son Jesus Christ.

 

[trophy33]

John 1:18
18No one has seen God at any time. The only begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, He has declared Him.

This translation (probably KJV or something from that family) is based on late and worse quality Greek manuscripts.

The oldest manuscripts have "God" and it was changed to "Son" later, during copying, because the words seem a bit similar and its automatic to see "Son" in the context of the sentence, when somebody is sleepy or in a hurry.

 

[Runningman]

What is this the 4th thread from the same person trying to deny that Jesus Christ is God, the Son of God the Father, God: The Father, Son, & Holy Spirit as explained by the Lord Jesus Christ Himself in the Gospel of John chapters 14, 15, & 16. One God ( Deuteronomy 6:4) Who defines Himself to us as He reveals Himself to us.

This person goes on & on after being refuted over and over. His usual approach to Trinitarian believers is “that is your opinion”. This person had to finally acknowledge his (her) error but still claim well a lotta people disagree with you (so there). See post (# 108) from this thread:

Did Christ every command or request worship for himself?

Unbelief converses in bad faith. . . You believe the Word is God (Jn 1:1), then also believe the Word (who is God) became flesh (Jn 1:14) and dwelt among us. I still say the "word" is God and not Jesus/Yeshua. Revelation 19:11-16 supports this: The Rider on the White Horse is God -- "His...

www.christianforums.com

Yeshua and a Jewish scribe were in total agreement about who God is, saying God is One not three. Jews then, and even today, are monotheistic non-Trinitarian people. Yeshua himself was a practicing Jew as well. Yeshua said nothing about a Trinitarian God. Check out Mark 12:28-34.

So yes, your belief in a Trinity is your opinion. For one, the Bible never explains it anywhere. Piecing together verses isn’t the same thing as anyone with Biblical authority, like God for example, explaining it.

What Yeshua believed is there is one true God known as Yahweh.

Deuteronomy 4:35
35To you it was shown, that you might know that the Lord Himself is God; there is none other besides Him.

Deuteronomy 4:39
39Therefore know this day, and consider it in your heart, that the Lord Himself is God in heaven above and on the earth beneath; there is no other.

Lord in the Old Testament is Yahweh.

 

[trophy33]

Theirs [Jews] are the patriarchs, and from them proceeds the human descent of Christ, who is God over all, forever worthy of praise! Amen.
R 9:5

For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity dwells in bodily form.
Co 2:9

 

[Runningman]

This translation (probably KJV or something from that family) is based on late and worse quality Greek manuscripts.

The oldest manuscripts have "God" and it was changed to "Son" later, during copying, because the words seem a bit similar and its automatic to see "Son" in the context of the sentence, when somebody is sleepy or in a hurry.

It’s flawed because it creates a contradiction. God is not the only begotten God, or unique God, because He’s already eternal without a beginning and there are no other God’s besides Himself.

There are textual variations surrounding numerous verses where God and Yeshua are mentioned, likely altered to give extra “evidence” for Yeshua being God. Virtually every other reading of the other textual traditions, including the Western, Byzantine, Caesarean and secondary Alexandrian texts, read huios, “Son.”

Additionally, A large number of the Church Fathers, such as Irenaeus, Clement and Tertullian, quoted the verse with “Son,” and not “God.”

 

[trophy33]

Yeshua himself was a practicing Jew as well. Yeshua said nothing about a Trinitarian God.

[Jesus said:] "I and the Father are one."

At this, the Jews again picked up stones to stone Him. But Jesus responded, “I have shown you many good works from the Father. For which of these do you stone Me?”
“We are not stoning You for any good work,” said the Jews, “but for blasphemy, because You, who are a man, declare Yourself to be God.”
J 10:30-33

 

[trophy33]

It’s flawed because it creates a contradiction. God is not the only begotten God, or unique God, because He’s already eternal without a beginning and there are no other God’s besides Himself.

There are textual variations surrounding numerous verses where God and Yeshua are mentioned, likely altered to give extra “evidence” for Yeshua being God. Virtually every other reading of the other textual traditions, including the Western, Byzantine, Caesarean and secondary Alexandrian texts, read huios, “Son.”

Additionally, A large number of the Church Fathers, such as Irenaeus, Clement and Tertullian, quoted the verse with “Son,” and not “God.”

The oldest manuscripts have "monogenes theos" and so this reading is our highest authority.

 

[Runningman]

Theirs [Jews] are the patriarchs, and from them proceeds the human descent of Christ, who is God over all, forever worthy of praise! Amen.
R 9:5

There was no punctuation in the original Greek. The correct translation is this:

R 9:5 RSV
“to them belong the patriarchs, and of their race, according to the flesh, is the Christ. God who is over all be blessed forever. Amen.”

For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity dwells in bodily form.
Co 2:9

The fullness of God dwelling in Christ was quantified as fullness because different measures of the Spirit can be distributed to people. Paul said we should all have the fullness of God in us; it isn’t an indicator of deity.

Ephesians 3:19
19to know the love of Christ which passes knowledge; that you may be filled with all the fullness of God.

 

[Runningman]

[Jesus said:] "I and the Father are one."

At this, the Jews again picked up stones to stone Him. But Jesus responded, “I have shown you many good works from the Father. For which of these do you stone Me?”
“We are not stoning You for any good work,” said the Jews, “but for blasphemy, because You, who are a man, declare Yourself to be God.”
J 10:30-33

That’s referring to unity, not deity. Yeshua said his disciples could be one with them as well. The disciples being one with God in the same way he is didn’t make them God. The correct understanding is in regard to unity.

John 17:21
21that all of them may be one, as You, Father, are in Me, and I am in You. May they also be in Us, so that the world may believe that You sent Me.

 

[Runningman]

The oldest manuscripts have "monogenes theos" and so this reading is our highest authority.

The highest authority is the scripture. God isn’t a begotten God or the only unique God since there are no other Gods. You should consider that even if it is correct then at times people are referred to as gods. Consider Hebrews 1:8 that quotes Psalm 45 which is in regards to a human king. That would be a god with a lowercase g.

 

[trophy33]

There was no punctuation in the original Greek. The correct translation is this:

R 9:5 RSV
“to them belong the patriarchs, and of their race, according to the flesh, is the Christ. God who is over all be blessed forever. Amen.”


The fullness of God dwelling in Christ was quantified as fullness because different measures of the Spirit can be distributed to people. Paul said we should all have the fullness of God in us; it isn’t an indicator of deity.

Ephesians 3:19
19to know the love of Christ which passes knowledge; that you may be filled with all the fullness of God.

Most of translators do not agree with you.

 

[trophy33]

The highest authority is the scripture. God isn’t a begotten God or the only unique God since there are no other Gods. You should consider that even if it is correct then at times people are referred to as gods. Consider Hebrews 1:8 that quotes Psalm 45 which is in regards to a human king. That would be a god with a lowercase g.

Jesus/Logos is the only begotten (monogenes) God, according to Bible. Father is not begotten, Son is.

Logos living in the bodily form is Jesus, according to Bible.

Logos/Jesus was in the "arms" of the Father, before all creation, according to the Bible.

 

[trophy33]

"[Christ] is the image of the invisible God"
Col 1:15

"Christ, who is the image of God"
2 Cor 4:4

"[Christ] Who being in the form of God did not consider it robbery to be equal with God"
Phil 2:6

Also all the verses saying that Jesus is Spirit, Lord etc. Worshiping Him etc. Dozens of such verses everywhere.

Bible clearly teaches that Jesus is God. Really, your case has no chance of success.

 

[Runningman]

Most of translators do not agree with you.

There wasn’t punctuation in Greek. Since the Bible is a cohesive non-contradictory text, the version I offered you is accurate.

 

[Runningman]

Jesus/Logos is the only begotten (monogenes) God, according to Bible. Father is not begotten, Son is.

Logos living in the bodily form is Jesus, according to Bible.

Logos/Jesus was in the "arms" of the Father, before all creation, according to the Bible.

According to John 1:1,14 and 1 John 1:1-4 the sense the word became flesh is that God’s word manifested as such, I.e., God spoke and it came into being. It says the word is God and since God is always referred to as the Father and explicitly referred to as Yahweh over 6,000 times then this is the only logical understanding of the reading.

 

[Runningman]

"[Christ] is the image of the invisible God"
Col 1:15

Saying Christ is the image of God isn’t the same as saying he’s God. It’s referring to his behaviors: holy and righteous. The invisible God is the one called God in this verse. The Father is never called the image of God because He is God.

"Christ, who is the image of God"
2 Cor 4:4

Same explanation as I said. Yeshua, a man, isn’t an invisible God. It’s referring to his behaviors, doctrines, etc all supplied by God.

John 14:9-10
9Jesus said to him, “Have I been with you so long, and yet you have not known Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; so how can you say, ‘Show us the Father’? 10Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father in Me? The words that I speak to you I do not speak on My own authority; but the Father who dwells in Me does the works.

"[Christ] Who being in the form of God did not consider it robbery to be equal with God"
Phil 2:6

Form refers to Greek word morphe. Again it’s the outward appearance.

[the] form
μορφῇ (morphé)
Noun - Dative Feminine Singular
Strong's Greek 3444: Form, shape, outward appearance.

Also all the verses saying that Jesus is Spirit, Lord etc. Worshiping Him etc. Dozens of such verses everywhere.

Bible clearly teaches that Jesus is God. Really, your case has no chance of success.

That’s false. I’m afraid many of the Bible versions just obscure the fact that Yeshua isn’t God because they were translated by Trinitarians.

John 17:3
3And this is eternal life, that they may know You,the only true God, and Jesus Christwhom You have sent.

1 Timothy 2:5
5For there is one God and one Mediator between God and men, the Man Christ Jesus,

Ephesians 1:3
3Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ,


Acts 3:27
27“For truly against Your holy Servant Jesus, whom You anointed, both Herod and Pontius Pilate, with the Gentiles and the people of Israel, were gathered together

And the list goes on. The entire Bible supports the narrative of Yeshua being a man annointed by God to serve Him.

 

[trophy33]

Saying Christ is the image of God isn’t the same as saying he’s God. It’s referring to his behaviors: holy and righteous. The invisible God is the one called God in this verse. The Father is never called the image of God because He is God.

Same explanation as I said. Yeshua, a man, isn’t an invisible God. It’s referring to his behaviors, doctrines, etc all supplied by God.

John 14:9-10
9Jesus said to him, “Have I been with you so long, and yet you have not known Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; so how can you say, ‘Show us the Father’? 10Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father in Me? The words that I speak to you I do not speak on My own authority; but the Father who dwells in Me does the works.

Form refers to Greek word morphe. Again it’s the outward appearance.

[the] form
μορφῇ (morphé)
Noun - Dative Feminine Singular
Strong's Greek 3444: Form, shape, outward appearance.

That’s false. I’m afraid many of the Bible versions just obscure the fact that Yeshua isn’t God because they were translated by Trinitarians.

John 17:3
3And this is eternal life, that they may know You,the only true God, and Jesus Christwhom You have sent.

1 Timothy 2:5
5For there is one God and one Mediator between God and men, the Man Christ Jesus,

Ephesians 1:3
3Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ,


Acts 3:27
27“For truly against Your holy Servant Jesus, whom You anointed, both Herod and Pontius Pilate, with the Gentiles and the people of Israel, were gathered together

And the list goes on. The entire Bible supports the narrative of Yeshua being a man annointed by God to serve Him.

You are just trying to explain clear verses to mean something "lesser" than they mean in their context, going with worse manuscripts, etc.

But in the whole picture, such a case has no chance for success, thats why "trinitarianism" is accepted in all Christianity for thousands of years. No debate about it is open anymore. The case is clear and closed.

Logos is God, Jesus equated himself with Father, He is the only begotten God, He was equal with God before incarnation, everything was created through Him, He rules over all creation etc. No, it does not mean just "he behaved well".

 

[Clare73]

Apparently not. The Bible says he’s the Son of God.

Yes, Jesus Christ is the Son of God, and the Holy Spirit is the Spirit of God, and all three are one God in three persons.

The Bible tells us to believe Scripture, and Scripture tells us that the Word is God (Jn 1:1) and that
the Word who is God became flesh and dwelt among us ( 1:14).

One gets to decide whether to believe Jn 1:1, Jn 1:14 or not.
Some choose unbelief.

 

[Runningman]

Yes, Jesus Christ is the Son of God, and the Holy Spirit is the Spirit of God, and all three are one God in three persons.

The Bible tells us to believe Scripture, and Scripture tells us that the Word is God (Jn 1:1) and that
the Word who is God became flesh and dwelt among us ( 1:14).

One gets to decide whether to believe Jn 1:1, Jn 1:14 or not.
Some choose unbelief.

Do you confess Christ came in the flesh or God came in the flesh?

1 John 4:2-3
2By this you know the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is of God, 3and every spirit that does not confess that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is not of God. And this is the spirit of the Antichrist, which you have heard was coming, and is now already in the world.