Why Does Sin Have to be Punished?

[Apex]

I'm not aware of your source on that.

Jeremiah 23:23-24
Am I a God at hand, declares the LORD, and not a God far away? Can a man hide himself in secret places so that I cannot see him? declares the LORD. Do I not fill heaven and earth? declares the LORD.

Colossians 1:17
And he is before all things, and in him all things hold together.

 

[Anguspure]

Jeremiah 23:23-24
Am I a God at hand, declares the LORD, and not a God far away? Can a man hide himself in secret places so that I cannot see him? declares the LORD. Do I not fill heaven and earth? declares the LORD.

Colossians 1:17
And he is before all things, and in him all things hold together.

Does this mean that He must be present in all locations, or simply that He is present in all locations or at least capable of being in all locations if He chooses to be? Surely if He chooses to withdraw His presence He is free to do so.

 

[Zoii]

I dont think all sin is punished.

 

[RACarvalho]

Can't God grade on a curve?

If you are in a situation that you need blood and I come to you with a pack of blood and tell you: Here you can use this, but be advised that there is one, and only one, virus of Ebola on it. Would you use it?
1 - Holiness - It must be absolute:
God planned and created all creation to be absolutely perfect, because He is absolutely perfect.
So it's not a case of how much you sin but IF you sin. Adan and Eve sinned only once and were expelled from Gods presence... Think about that!
In the case of us, Humans, we were created to reflect his perfect character, and that for the eternity. Eternity means every single second. A single sin was enough to ban Adam and Eve from the garden... That what means Holiness: Be perfect always.
2 - Eternity - It's for real
So when we sin, we ruin God's eternal plan. Doesn't matter how long you have lived in sin or how many sins you do, God plan IS (God didn't gave up on His desire for us) an eternity of Holiness and we ruined it when we sinned. Now, BECAUSE of His grace and love for us, God is bearing the loss of these years of Holiness that He planned for us and appealing to us to repent and return to Him. He went to the lenght to offer His very own son so we could can back.But Hid grace have a purpose: Makes us repent. If we refuse to repent, the punishment of the Law (which is Holy) is applied.
3 - Hell - It's eternal
That explains why Hell is eternal: Because if you refuse to repent and return to God, you are destroying God's eternal plan for YOUR LIFE, which leads to eternal damnation ..... You destroyed something eternal, you will be punished for eternity.
God rules, not a single leaf falls from the trees without Him notice it, not a single fact of history happens without His authorization, not a single act you commit , good or bad, goes unregistered....
" It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God." Hebrews 10:31

 

[ambc]

Can't God grade on a curve? Must He be so stringent, when it comes to sin?

God doesn’t punish people for their wrongdoings. We punish ourselves when we sin. For example, say someone commits the sin of gluttony by eating too much every day. God doesn’t point his finger, do magic, and say, “glutton, get fat!” The overeater gets fat as a consequence of his own sin.

 

[RACarvalho]

" God doesn’t punish people for their wrongdoings."
This needs an explanation for there is punishment for sin and God judge and punish sinners.
God Judged and punished Israel several times including in 70dc when God lead the Romans to destroy them.
So yes, God judge and punishes but there is a time of Grace to lead people to repentance.... During that time, punishment is delayed.
If the person repents, sins are erased and punishment is avoided but if not, punishment come.
Jesus said: " Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Instead, fear the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell. " Mat.10:28
Israel's 40 years in desert should have teach us that.

 

[Hammster]

God doesn’t punish people for their wrongdoings. We punish ourselves when we sin. For example, say someone commits the sin of gluttony by eating too much every day. God doesn’t point his finger, do magic, and say, “glutton, get fat!” The overeater gets fat as a consequence of his own sin.

The wages of sin is obesity?

 

[Apex]

Does this mean that He must be present in all locations, or simply that He is present in all locations or at least capable of being in all locations if He chooses to be? Surely if He chooses to withdraw His presence He is free to do so.

This moves into the philosophical arena. God's other attributes all work in necessary concert with each other. These are not properties that God can forfeit or modify, they are essential to his singular nature.

God must be omnipresent, because he is also eternal, omnipotent, omniscient, and immutable. You can't be one of these without the others.

 

[jimmyjimmy]

If you are in a situation that you need blood and I come to you with a pack of blood and tell you: Here you can use this, but be advised that there is one, and only one, virus of Ebola on it. Would you use it?
1 - Holiness - It must be absolute:
God planned and created all creation to be absolutely perfect, because He is absolutely perfect.
So it's not a case of how much you sin but IF you sin. Adan and Eve sinned only once and were expelled from Gods presence... Think about that!
In the case of us, Humans, we were created to reflect his perfect character, and that for the eternity. Eternity means every single second. A single sin was enough to ban Adam and Eve from the garden... That what means Holiness: Be perfect always.
2 - Eternity - It's for real
So when we sin, we ruin God's eternal plan. Doesn't matter how long you have lived in sin or how many sins you do, God plan IS (God didn't gave up on His desire for us) an eternity of Holiness and we ruined it when we sinned. Now, BECAUSE of His grace and love for us, God is bearing the loss of these years of Holiness that He planned for us and appealing to us to repent and return to Him. He went to the lenght to offer His very own son so we could can back.But Hid grace have a purpose: Makes us repent. If we refuse to repent, the punishment of the Law (which is Holy) is applied.
3 - Hell - It's eternal
That explains why Hell is eternal: Because if you refuse to repent and return to God, you are destroying God's eternal plan for YOUR LIFE, which leads to eternal damnation ..... You destroyed something eternal, you will be punished for eternity.
God rules, not a single leaf falls from the trees without Him notice it, not a single fact of history happens without His authorization, not a single act you commit , good or bad, goes unregistered....
" It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God." Hebrews 10:31

Thanks, but none of this answers my question.

Yes, God is holy. I know that.

Yes. Eternity is "for real". I know that.

Yes, Hell is eternal. I know that.

The question is, why does God demand OUR perfection. . . or else?

 

[hedrick]

The question is, why does God demand OUR perfection. . . or else?

He doesn't. He demands humility and repentance.

 

[Tony Hyman]

He doesn't. He demands humility and repentance.

Its only through the blood of Christ that God that God will see our perfection.This is something that we "work" on in daily basis allowing the " 9 fruits of the Spirit"(Gal 5:22)
to work in us.I say "allow" in the light of Eph 5:18 where we control the how the Spirit does this in terms of "Do not get drunk on wine, which leads to debauchery, be filled with the Spirit"(N.I.V. Eph.5:15)
I believe "wine" alcohol, could include most other depressants which if taken in excess tends to override the work of the Spirit bringing out the animal nature in us.Instead of being continuously stimulated and inspired by the Spirit to be like Christ, which is the only standard acceptable to God.Yes if it must, "and he punishes everyone he accepts as a son"
(Heb 12:7b) The "or else" part is up to those who don't accept His Son in terms of "No -one comes to the Father except through me" (Jn14:6)Acceptance includes "hearing and doing"
(Mt.7:24)

 

[Kyndelle Cooper]

To the His holiness demands it point. God is perfect in every way and without iniquity or sin therefore He is so perfect that He can't look at sin without condemning it because to leave sin unpunished would be going against who He is. However when Jesus sacrificed Himself for our sins God was able to fully punish Him in our place.

 

[hedrick]

To the His holiness demands it point. God is perfect in every way and without iniquity or sin therefore He is so perfect that He can't look at sin without condemning it because to leave sin unpunished would be going against who He is. However when Jesus sacrificed Himself for our sins God was able to fully punish Him in our place.

Paul's position in Rom 3:25 is that God is so righteous that he can't look at sin without wanting to justify the sinner. I'm not convinced that this is the same thing. As we see elsewhere in Romans, justification means that by faith we are united with Christ, die with him to sin and rise to new life. I.e. God wants to regenerate the sinner more than he wants to punish sin.

The position that God's righteousness demands punishment is the one Luther rebelled against. Correctly, in my view. God's righteousness is expressed through his commitment to save sinners. Punishment occurs for sinners who won't accept regeneration.

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

Christ God took death upon himself willingly in order to conquer death.

Cetainly The Father and The Holy Spirit knew. Christ the agent of creation, came again to keep death from having dominion over us.

Forgive me...

 

[Kyndelle Cooper]

Paul's position in Rom 3:25 is that God is so righteous that he can't look at sin without wanting to justify the sinner. I'm not convinced that this is the same thing. As we see elsewhere in Romans, justification means that by faith we are united with Christ, die with him to sin and rise to new life. I.e. God wants to regenerate the sinner more than he wants to punish sin.

The position that God's righteousness demands punishment is the one Luther rebelled against. Correctly, in my view. God's righteousness is expressed through his commitment to save sinners. Punishment occurs for sinners who won't accept regeneration.

Well yikes I'm a big fan of Martin Luther so I definitely wouldn't want to come across as the viewpoint he opposed, I was merely trying to convey the fact that God can't accept sin because he is perfect and without sin. Thanks for your response it definitely helped me to see the flaws in my statement!

 

[hedrick]

Martin Luther on the ‘Righteousness of God’

It's worth noting, however, that in the context of the atonement, Luther accepted that Christ bore the penalty that is due to us. There is some disagreement here: one well-known expert on the Atonement (Aulen) has tried to minimize this. But it does appear that Luther accepted the concept that Christ bore God's wrath in our place. And that assumes that in some sense we merit punishment.

I think we have to say that for many Christians God is both committed to punishing sin and to justifying sinners. My personal view is that this is wrong, and furthermore, that it misreads Scripture. God certainly is unwilling to accept that sin will go on forever. But I think he prefers to deal with it by justification, and that this does not require punishing an innocent victim. I think Luther's view of the atonement failed to take account of his insight on the nature of God's righteousness.

 

[bling]

Paul's position in Rom 3:25 is that God is so righteous that he can't look at sin without wanting to justify the sinner. I'm not convinced that this is the same thing. As we see elsewhere in Romans, justification means that by faith we are united with Christ, die with him to sin and rise to new life. I.e. God wants to regenerate the sinner more than he wants to punish sin.

The position that God's righteousness demands punishment is the one Luther rebelled against. Correctly, in my view. God's righteousness is expressed through his commitment to save sinners. Punishment occurs for sinners who won't accept regeneration.

This is good and I would also say: Christ as God here on earth hung around sinners, so was Christ not God in the flesh?
Christ wanted always to help the sinner and it hurt when the sinner refused His help (like the rich young ruler) but He always Loved them.

 

[bling]

Martin Luther on the ‘Righteousness of God’

It's worth noting, however, that in the context of the atonement, Luther accepted that Christ bore the penalty that is due to us. There is some disagreement here: one well-known expert on the Atonement (Aulen) has tried to minimize this. But it does appear that Luther accepted the concept that Christ bore God's wrath in our place. And that assumes that in some sense we merit punishment.

I think we have to say that for many Christians God is both committed to punishing sin and to justifying sinners. My personal view is that this is wrong, and furthermore, that it misreads Scripture. God certainly is unwilling to accept that sin will go on forever. But I think he prefers to deal with it by justification, and that this does not require punishing an innocent victim. I think Luther's view of the atonement failed to take account of his insight on the nature of God's righteousness.

I, and I think you agree, would never suggest God intentionally “punished” Christ, since that is completely unjust/unfair and really against God’s Loving nature toward the innocent. God and Christ both allowed wicked people to torture humiliate and murder Him, which was the equivalent of our punishment (maybe better expressed as our needed disciplining for our sins).

God forgives our sins so there is nothing really for us or anyone else to pay to God, but just as a wonderful parent forgives and also sees to the disciplining of His guilty children , God if He can will see to our disciplining which happens when we are crucified with Christ.

Discipline is not the same as punishment, but discipline is fairly (equally) given to those who correctly accept Loving discipline as compared to those who are punishment in part for rejecting the Loving discipline.

 

[Tony Hyman]

"Discipline is not the same as punishment, but discipline is fairly (equally) given to those who correctly accept Loving discipline as compared to those who are punished in part for rejecting the Loving discipline."

I believe although we are "justified" Rom 3:26.Whether by baptism "of water and the Spirit" Jn 3:5. But there is an on going process through "sanctification" "May God himself, the God of peace, sanctify you through and through.May your whole spirit, soul and body be kept blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. The one who calls you is faithful and he will do it"(I Th.5:23-24)Christ does the continuous sanctification after all he took the fall for us, what a price he paid."atonement".So in order to make sure that we gradually "through and through" are made pure (sanctified ) for the final parade as it were. He keeps us on our toes with. "Endure hardship as a discipline; God is treating you as sons.For what son is not disciplined by his father?"(Heb 12:7)I strongly believe that this applies to "the girls" as well in light of (Gal.3:28 ).

So its a matter of allowing Christ to sanctify You continuously He is the High Priest, that is His function "For we do not have a high priest who is unable to sympathize with our weaknesses ...tempted in every way, just as we are-yet was without sin"(Heb 4:15)

 

[DeeDee79]

Your thread question challenges God's design. In our nature, how we were made, this rule will answer why there must be punishment for sin.

If there is no consequence of living, there is

Would you want to live in a world where sin wasn't punished?

I am still waiting for the offender against my girlfriend to be punished.....so yea, no punishment there