Why Does Sin Have to be Punished?

jimmyjimmy · Aug 15, 2017

Steven Calloway said:
10 My defence is of God, which saveth the upright in heart.

11 God judgeth the righteous, and God is angry with the wicked every day.

12 If he turn not, he will whet his sword; he hath bent his bow, and made it ready.

I understand that. My question is, *why*? We are told to forgive those who sin against us, are we not?

ladodgers6 · Aug 15, 2017

jimmyjimmy said:
Can't God grade on a curve? Must He be so stringent, when it comes to sin?

Just because we all fall short of the Glory. Because all have sinned. And all are under the curse of the Law because of the One trespass of the One Man resulted in condemnation & death. Doesn't mean God will lower His standard of Holiness to let us into heaven.

This is why God sent the Second Adam in the flesh, born of a virgin, under the Law. To fulfill God's will (The Law) with Perfect Obedience, and condemned sin in the flesh. This is how serious sin is. That Christ entered time & history in the flesh to take the full wrath of God upon His head for us. So that we may become the Righteousness of God!

No God will not grade it on a curve, or lower the Law so that we can climb over it. God will not look the other way. Only by the imputed Righteousness of Christ, which is receive through Faith apart from works can we stand firm before God.

Winken · Aug 15, 2017

jimmyjimmy said:
I understand that. My question is, *why*? We are told to forgive those who sin against us, are we not?

Yes. That has zero to do with our eternal salvation.

friend of · Aug 15, 2017

Anything outside of God's will is sin.

Sin is utterly incompatible with God's will.

friend of · Aug 15, 2017

jimmyjimmy said:
Ultimately, it's only He who is offended. When I am offended, I forgive, and not just those who ask for forgiveness.

Matthew 5:43-48

JESUS=G.O.A.T · Aug 15, 2017

jimmyjimmy said:
Can't God grade on a curve? Must He be so stringent, when it comes to sin?

God is Holy and becuase of that he has to be uh hard on sin. 1 thessalonians or whatever even says that God has not called us unto uncleanness but unto holiness as if to establish that the two don't even belong in the same sentence.

And the bible tells us he will not dwell in an unclean temple, God is set about this.

Presbyterian Continuist · Aug 15, 2017

mkgal1 said:
I don't believe God *punishes* us for our sin......I believe, through His love and holiness, He will restore us to be more like Him. Not retributive justice.....but restorative justice. Sin carries its own consequences.....but that's not from God.

>>>>>>>>>>There is no fear in love, but perfect love drives out fear, because fear involves punishment. The one who fears has not been perfected in love.~1st John 4:18

That's quite true, but someone had to take the punishment. God cannot just acquit someone just for nothing in the same way that a court of justice just cannot free someone found guilty of crime. God is able to free sinners from their sin because His Son Jesus took their punishment for them.

Steven Calloway · Aug 15, 2017

ASKING God to forgive us is an act of humility. We must have a repentant heart and be willing to turn away from that sin. But, I see your implying that God will ultimately forgive people that have not asked him for forgiveness. I can't say that's biblical. I feel like your implying, Because God has asked us to forgive others, he therefore will ultimately forgive everyone as well. C.S. Lewis said this.....
“There are only two kinds of people in the end: those who say to God, "Thy will be done," and those to whom God says, in the end, "Thy will be done." All that are in Hell, choose it. Without that self-choice there could be no Hell. No soul that seriously and constantly desires joy will ever miss it. Those who seek find. Those who knock it is opened.”

GingerBeer · Aug 15, 2017

jimmyjimmy said:
Can't God grade on a curve? Must He be so stringent, when it comes to sin?

What do you think about the matter? Why not ignore sin and leave humanity to its own devices?

Steven Calloway · Aug 15, 2017

Because our own devices destroy us. He LOVES us.

Tolworth John · Aug 16, 2017

jimmyjimmy said:
Can't God grade on a curve? Must He be so stringent, when it comes to sin?

How do you know that God doesn't grade different sins, awarded different degrees of punishment/reward to them?
The point is God created us to be in felowship with him. There are no reasonable reasons for not being in a right relationship with him.
It is only our pride and stubbonness that keeps us away.
As has been aready said, God gives us what we want, an eturnity with him or an eturnity without him.

Emmy · Aug 16, 2017

Dear jimmyjimmy. Why does sin have to be punished? All sin is unloving and unkind. God is Love, and God wants loving sons and daughters. Sin is everything what has no love or compassion. Jesus tells us in Matthew 22: 35-40: " The first and great Commandment is: Love God with all thy heart, with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. The second is like it: love thy neighbour as thyself, treat all we meet and all we know, treat them as we would love to be treated. God sees our sincere loving and caring, and God will approve and Bless us greatly.
The Bible tells us: give up our unloving beings, and be as loving and caring as God is always to us. Let us love and care, be joyful and always kind. In Matthew 7: 7-10: we are told: Ask and you shall receive. We ask for Love and Joy, and compassion, then we thank God and share all love, joy and compassion with our neighbour. Let us give up all unkindness and unfriendliness, let us be the men and women which God our Heavenly Father wants. I say this with love, jimmyjimmy. Greetings from Emmy, your sister in Christ.

Anguspure · Aug 16, 2017

jimmyjimmy said:
Ultimately, it's only He who is offended. When I am offended, I forgive, and not just those who ask for forgiveness.

If a person does not accept your trite little offer of forgiveness, then what?

Anguspure · Aug 16, 2017

jimmyjimmy said:
Can't God grade on a curve? Must He be so stringent, when it comes to sin?

Punishment for sin is indeed graded according to ones relationship to and against the value of the thing/person that is sinned against.

If we consider, as you rightly acknowledge (Why Does Sin Have to be Punished?) that all sin is ultimately against the Father, then a person who has been offered perfect relationship with Him, and who takes from a part of the infinite value of Him must therefore be guilty of adulterating and breaking a perfect relationship (to the source of all life) and taking an infinite value from this (infinity minus infinity is infinity).

The penalty for sin is therefore self fulfilling: A break from life to an infinite degree.

food4thought · Aug 16, 2017

jimmyjimmy said:
Can't God grade on a curve? Must He be so stringent, when it comes to sin?

As Hammster said, God is holy, meaning that He is completely set apart from this world of sin, pure and undefiled. God is also perfectly good, which in a moral sense means that He abhors the least sin as much as we would the greatest sin (in our eyes)... our white lie is as horrific to Him as child molestation is to us. God is also perfectly just. What good judge would let a child molester go unpunished, even if the molester was a good person otherwise? Finally, God is love. God loves His creations, and sin harms His creations; so, being holy, good, and just, His love for us compels Him to judge those that hurt us.

Hope this helps;
Mike

jimmyjimmy · Aug 16, 2017

Steven Calloway said:
ASKING God to forgive us is an act of humility. We must have a repentant heart and be willing to turn away from that sin. But, I see your implying that God will ultimately forgive people that have not asked him for forgiveness. I can't say that's biblical. I feel like your implying, Because God has asked us to forgive others, he therefore will ultimately forgive everyone as well. C.S. Lewis said this.....
“There are only two kinds of people in the end: those who say to God, "Thy will be done," and those to whom God says, in the end, "Thy will be done." All that are in Hell, choose it. Without that self-choice there could be no Hell. No soul that seriously and constantly desires joy will ever miss it. Those who seek find. Those who knock it is opened.”

If this is addressed at me, I've implied no such thing. In fact, I was playing Devils advocate when I created this thread.

jimmyjimmy · Aug 16, 2017

food4thought said:
As Hammster said, God is holy, meaning that He is completely set apart from this world of sin, pure and undefiled. God is also perfectly good, which in a moral sense means that He abhors the least sin as much as we would the greatest sin (in our eyes)... our white lie is as horrific to Him as child molestation is to us. God is also perfectly just. What good judge would let a child molester go unpunished, even if the molester was a good person otherwise? Finally, God is love. God loves His creations, and sin harms His creations; so, being holy, good, and just, His love for us compels Him to judge those that hurt us.

Hope this helps;
Mike

Most of us aren't child molesters, Mike.

Also, I expect a judge to be able to discern a white lie from child molestation.

jimmyjimmy · Aug 16, 2017

Tolworth John said:
How do you know that God doesn't grade different sins, awarded different degrees of punishment/reward to them?

Based on Christ's words, I do know that he "grades" sin differently. (see Luke 10:13)

food4thought · Aug 16, 2017

jimmyjimmy said:
Most of us aren't child molesters, Mike.

Also, I expect a judge to be able to discern a white lie from child molestation.

I'm sorry, Jimmy, I wasn't clear. I didn't mean to imply that God sees all sin equally. My point was that God's goodness and holiness is such that all sin is extremely repugnant to Him, and in His eyes they are all worthy of severe punishment... if a white lie is morally repugnant to Him, what must worse sins be like in His eyes? A just judge would make sure that those who committed such severe crimes would be isolated from the rest of society.

Alithis · Aug 16, 2017

Symph said:
I don't want you to be alone. I lean toward a universalist theology as well, however I DO think he punishes the wicked when they won't repent, and I do think his punishments often go far beyond what the average human would call "harsh". However like you, I think the end result will be restoration, not destruction. But yeah... keep it on the DL.... lol

Universalism is a doctrine of devils..-end.

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