I'm simply curious as to why, instead of developing personal beliefs, those who belong to a religion feel the need to conform their beliefs to exactly as they've been told. Is this really what one would believe, or what one would fool himself into believing for the sake of security?
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Why does one need to conform to a religion?
- Thread starter Voice Of Reason
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I think this exerpt from the covenant of the Way answers your question quite well.
"The High Lord at the time of the Ending of Days shall threaten all that they shall hold to be true yet knowing that such beliefs in reason cannot be true and at that time men shall hold onto that which is not true and believe it to be true, as they shall have been taught great fear of that which is true and shall fear to look upon Truth, as men shall believe and fear the loss of that which belief shall promise onto them, even though they know it to be not true and know that such things cannot be held to be true, as such things are born only from the sickness of the minds of men and are false.
Yet will Man stay blind to that which in his heart and in reason, he knows to be true. So shall most men stand cursed by their own stupidity and shall be deserved of that which will come upon them at the coming of the Seventh and last, High Lord."
"The High Lord at the time of the Ending of Days shall threaten all that they shall hold to be true yet knowing that such beliefs in reason cannot be true and at that time men shall hold onto that which is not true and believe it to be true, as they shall have been taught great fear of that which is true and shall fear to look upon Truth, as men shall believe and fear the loss of that which belief shall promise onto them, even though they know it to be not true and know that such things cannot be held to be true, as such things are born only from the sickness of the minds of men and are false.
Yet will Man stay blind to that which in his heart and in reason, he knows to be true. So shall most men stand cursed by their own stupidity and shall be deserved of that which will come upon them at the coming of the Seventh and last, High Lord."
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Charles Darwin
Druidic Deist
While the response does say what will happen, it does not offer a reason as to what makes that opinion any truer than another. Is it not possible that all people could argue with stories justified by "well if you dont you'll be ******" back and forth all day long with no conclusion as to which is truer? Why could my answer of, well since evolution says we came from apes, you're really just setting yourself up for a giant let down after life. My story justifies itself same as yours, it is b/c its written as such so it must be. However, society says this must be for a reason and that is the question posed. Do people congrugate around religion b/c they feel safer knowing some supreme being who allows such mass suffering in the world is watching them? do they do it to give life a purpose? (no that living itself isnt enought purpose already) Or is it that the people who invent the religion will gain power out of the blind following of others. False hope? Security? Selfworth? Greed? Why?
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I have the answer to the question of the topic! The answer is because people are weak and they need to feel they have purpose. Also people are stupid, and they need something to lead them along, as not to get lost. I believe the concept of God was just thought of because people didnt have the answers to the question of the creation of the universe. (or for that matter, human life, and all the life on the planet) Take for example, if our human race, were to suddenly evolve and thus making it possible to postpone death for several hundred years, would God still be in the equasion. Perhaps. But what about cloning, and technology that run along thoes lines. In the future, it will most likely be possible to prevent death alltogether. The death of the human body is inevitable, but the brain will continue to function indenfinitly. Watch the movie with Arnold Schwartzanegger and you will see what im talking about. (and what i mean by the brain, i mean the mind, or the intangible regions of our brain)
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I don't believe that one needs religion, but I do believe that one needs spirituality in some sense as part of their life to lead a fulfilling life. Religion is a tool one uses to develope spirituality, but it's not the only tool.
Thats my short answer- pressed for time at current.
Thats my short answer- pressed for time at current.
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Mylinkay Asdara said:I don't believe that one needs religion, but I do believe that one needs spirituality in some sense as part of their life to lead a fulfilling life. Religion is a tool one uses to develope spirituality, but it's not the only tool.
Thats my short answer- pressed for time at current.
Im leading a fulfilling life, and i dont believe in god or have any spirituality. Explain that!
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You've never appreciated a sunset? Never made passionate love? Never delighted in the innocence of a child? Never savored a special moment?
All of these things could be considered spiritual under my definition of the word as I was using it in my previous post.
If you are completely non-spiritual and have no spirituality... are you just a vacant bag of flesh doing nothing? I don't think so. Please realize that my definitions are broad and really include much of general human expieriance.
All of these things could be considered spiritual under my definition of the word as I was using it in my previous post.
If you are completely non-spiritual and have no spirituality... are you just a vacant bag of flesh doing nothing? I don't think so. Please realize that my definitions are broad and really include much of general human expieriance.
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Mylinkay Asdara said:
Woops you offended me on that vacant bag of flesh comment and violated the "No flamming" rule. But seeing that im a nice guy i wont report it. To answer your question: 1. I dont appreciate a sunset, i merly look at it, and say "ehh ive seen it before" 2. I dont make passionate love, I have sex. 3. I hate children, they are ignorent, and they smell bad. Now number 4 is tricky. Yes i have savored a specialy moment...the first time a had sex, but that about it. And i dont consider anything about spirituality to be about secular things. Spirituality, in my definition, has to do with a religious view. Because i dont believe in a spirit or soul. I simply believe in Life, Death, and oblivion.
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My apologies, however I was not flamming you because I did not call you a vacant bag of flesh I was merely posing a rhetorical question to you in a sarcastic manner. It was never meant to be a seriously taken comment and I'm sorry you did take it in a way it was not intended.
Spirituality for me in my beliefs is a sense of self and selfawareness that permeates ones life and allows higher thought and emotions. I'm not Christian, but pagan and I understand that while you are indeed familiar with Christian beliefs you may or may not be aware of the general pagan beliefs and certianly not mine specifically. Again, I must apologize, I should have been more clear with my posts in this thread, but I was indeed pressed for time as I am accessing the site from work at the moment and things do come up periodically to draw me away in a rush.
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A person doesn't need to believe in a religion. They can simply believe they are the truth. Of course, that won't get them to heaven but if that's not their goal, then they don't have to grow. Afterall, one can't grow if they have all the answers.
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Jimx611
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To: Gabrial Please explain how you have concluded that God does not exist. Also, science explains most of the events that occur in nature, but even with science, the majority of people on earth still believe that God does exist ( Can you explain why people still keep their faith with all this INFO). Next, do you really think that the human race (smart & dumb people) for over a thousands years would believe in something with out proof of some kind? Whats your take ?
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I was informed by a moderator in the chat box that gabrial is no longer a member because they got too offended with what he was saying. But i would like to answer your question Jimx611. Seeing that i believe along the same line as he does. Seeing that he is my friend from school. The human race is ignorent, and latches onto anything they can get their hands on if it will benfit them, (or think it will benefit them) Nobody has proof in anything. and did you know that lies travel better through time than the truth.....
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People who put their faith in human beings will only find imperfection. It will not get them to heaven, it will only lead them to more questions that will never be answered because humans are not truth. But if people want to keep searching and never find, they can put their faith in other human beings.
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Jimx611
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To Believers: Thank for the info on your friend, and your response, I think, at first glance your comment about lies/truth through time seem correct, however I think that it is a generalization of all history. I think in some cases you are right, but to make such a broad general statement about history. Is to call history altogether a conspiracy theory to hide factual events. Next, people are ignorant, but not everyone. People through out time were ignorant , but later learned and accepted truthful facts. Exp: sun/planets revolved around earth, Earth is flat, and we know how that turned out. I think, it is easy to assume people are always ignorant, but eventually people learn and move on.
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Heathen Dawn
Gesta Dei per Francos
Religion is an obstruction for mankind. All those rituals and dogmas only serve to block mankind from God. There is no need for any man to adhere to a mainstream religion, except for the feeling of belonging to a tradition.
I believe in one Creator-God and in life after death and in the necessity of doing good works towards other creatures (yes, good works! No matter what the Christians say!), and there I stand. All the rest are needless acretions which do not advance a person.
I believe in one Creator-God and in life after death and in the necessity of doing good works towards other creatures (yes, good works! No matter what the Christians say!), and there I stand. All the rest are needless acretions which do not advance a person.
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Sometimes it is hard to see the humanity in religion, but that does not negate religion, merely those that choose to pervert it. Ie. Hypocriticism and such. Likewise, being a strong moral person shouldn't open one up to a world of opportunities. Ie. loose enjoyment of life. It was Jesus' purpose to be an example of the good things humanity should do. Ie. discipline or the like. I know humanity has gone far as to understanding God's will, but I think there is too much difference, variation which has led many from the point of Jesus' birth at all. And, for the sake of those that don't put emphasis on Jesus or believe he was God's gift, all I can say is what is important to remember is that if religion is anything to anyone, it is that God is the basis for any and all religions.
It seems to me that humanity, for the most part, is lost in the confusion of so many religions to the point it is "moot" to those that have too many options. Thus, they go the other way, instead of where the example was to lead them.
To ask if anyone needs religion, I think, is still actually missing the point. Is it better to need religion or need God. Would't it be better to need God than religion so there is no confusion? The shame of it is that many would say no to needing God. And, it doesn't matter what one believes, the truth may be as it should, but God did create this ball of a planet. So, essentially, even those that "do not need God", actually do. The difference is what you do while you are here. It amazes me, the amount of confusion on this planet and what that confusion does or does not do to the confused.
It is funny how all the conversation over a topic in the world doesn't change the nature of the truth in the essentials with God being that truth. It is actually that easy. One could try to understand an orange sky with science, but one could also reason that sky by saying God did it. Science only goes to prove how God did it, and the other is at rest with the understanding that God just did it and that is all. There is nothing more to understanding it.
What I have noticed in the mix of Humanity is how well you humans are intermixing. I admit there are some altercations, but overall, humanity is well with each other. Think about this the next time you are out in public, say, at a grocery store or the movies etc.. Stop and look around momentarily, notice that many of those you see don't believe as you, but they are amidst the crowd as you are. Many of them believe they need religion and others do not. And, yet they exist in the same frame of time as you in the seemingly adjacent space as you. Take in the account of what their beliefs are, how they might differ from yours, then picture that this Earth is common ground. Aren't the whole of Humanity, standing on common ground? This is the power of God, the equalizer. God is behind the power of two totally different individuals to come together in a conversation even though they may be talking oppositionally to the other's views. Before any of you argue the point of crime which happens on this commn ground, let me say that responsibility on either side begins after common ground is established.
So, in closing, does everyone need religion, not neccessarily if that religion leads you away from the example God did set a long time ago. Does everyone need God. I strongly believe that and I live it by my actions.
Sera'naphsus
It seems to me that humanity, for the most part, is lost in the confusion of so many religions to the point it is "moot" to those that have too many options. Thus, they go the other way, instead of where the example was to lead them.
To ask if anyone needs religion, I think, is still actually missing the point. Is it better to need religion or need God. Would't it be better to need God than religion so there is no confusion? The shame of it is that many would say no to needing God. And, it doesn't matter what one believes, the truth may be as it should, but God did create this ball of a planet. So, essentially, even those that "do not need God", actually do. The difference is what you do while you are here. It amazes me, the amount of confusion on this planet and what that confusion does or does not do to the confused.
It is funny how all the conversation over a topic in the world doesn't change the nature of the truth in the essentials with God being that truth. It is actually that easy. One could try to understand an orange sky with science, but one could also reason that sky by saying God did it. Science only goes to prove how God did it, and the other is at rest with the understanding that God just did it and that is all. There is nothing more to understanding it.
What I have noticed in the mix of Humanity is how well you humans are intermixing. I admit there are some altercations, but overall, humanity is well with each other. Think about this the next time you are out in public, say, at a grocery store or the movies etc.. Stop and look around momentarily, notice that many of those you see don't believe as you, but they are amidst the crowd as you are. Many of them believe they need religion and others do not. And, yet they exist in the same frame of time as you in the seemingly adjacent space as you. Take in the account of what their beliefs are, how they might differ from yours, then picture that this Earth is common ground. Aren't the whole of Humanity, standing on common ground? This is the power of God, the equalizer. God is behind the power of two totally different individuals to come together in a conversation even though they may be talking oppositionally to the other's views. Before any of you argue the point of crime which happens on this commn ground, let me say that responsibility on either side begins after common ground is established.
So, in closing, does everyone need religion, not neccessarily if that religion leads you away from the example God did set a long time ago. Does everyone need God. I strongly believe that and I live it by my actions.
Sera'naphsus
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