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WONDERFUL !!!!!Jesus prayed. Why did He pray. What is the praying in Hebrews 5:7-8 related to?
WHERE is it written that Jesus asks the Father to not be left in the grave, to be resurrected , (as if Jesus did not already know the plan) ?
And here;Quite plausible for learning purposes.
However, the OP refers to Hebrews 5 and related to suffering:
Hebrews 5: NASB
7In the days of His flesh, He offered up both prayers and supplications with loud crying and tears to the One able to save Him from death, and He was heard because of His piety. 8Although He was a Son, He learned obedience from the things which He suffered. 9And having been made perfect, He became to all those who obey Him the source of eternal salvation, 10being designated by God as a high priest according to the order of Melchizedek.
And here again:I would like to get this thread back on topic. The actual reference to obedience addressed in the OP regards the expository in Hebrews 5.
Hebrews 5:NASB
7In the days of His flesh, He offered up both prayers and supplications with loud crying and tears to the One able to save Him from death, and He was heard because of His piety. 8Although He was a Son, He learned obedience from the things which He suffered. 9And having been made perfect, He became to all those who obey Him the source of eternal salvation, 10being designated by God as a high priest according to the order of Melchizedek.
I’ll entertain this nonsense for the third and last time.
First you claimed John MacArthur in his expository said Jesus did not know He would be resurrected. I showed that claim to be false. JM does not make that claim.
Of course what he refers to is the context of the text discussed in Hebrews 5:
Why did Jesus offer up both prayers and supplications? The text of Hebrews 5:7 tells us...to save Him from death. And the text says Jesus was heard.
This has nothing to do with Jesus knowing or not knowing. The text in question is not addressing this. We know from the Gospel accounts Jesus knew he would die and rise again.
When I pointed this out to you, you then said Jesus did not ask. What do you think prayers and supplications are?
Or is your point that Jesus knew so He did not ask? Well the text quoted in Hebrews 5:7 said Jesus did ask. He prayed and was answered. So now the issue you have is not with what I quoted from JM, but with the author of Hebrews.
You did not like that I pointed out twice you were barking at me for no reason by showing you the actual text. But then in even more vitriol come back again and make the same claims which I refute now 4 times.
So perhaps further examination is required to explain this. Jesus told us our Heavenly Father will give us what we need to survive. He told us not to worry about food and clothing. But then Jesus told us to pray to our Heavenly Father for our daily bread. Why did Jesus tell us not to worry about these things but also tell us to daily ask for them?
The same answer we get in knowing Jesus knew He would be raised but Hebrews 5:7 tells us He still prayed.
One can either accept this as a paradox or that in our case praying for our daily bread even though we know God provides reminds us of Who provides and sustains us.
FINALLY (the last one) (the previous ones were no quotes, just references)Quoted here:
And here;
And here again:
And here again:
And here again:
Hebrews 5: NASB
7In the days of His flesh, He offered up both prayers and supplications with loud crying and tears to the One able to save Him from death, and He was heard because of His piety. 8Although He was a Son, He learned obedience from the things which He suffered. 9And having been made perfect, He became to all those who obey Him the source of eternal salvation, 10being designated by God as a high priest according to the order of Melchizedek.
Jesus offered prayers and supplications.
With loud crying and shouting.
To the One able to save Him from death.
And He was heard.
Because of His Piety.
Perhaps broken down like this you could answer the following questions:
1. Why Did Jesus pray?
2. Why was Jesus crying and shouting?
3. Why was Jesus doing #1 and #2 to the One able to save Him from death?
4. Based on #1, #2, and #3 what was exactly heard?
Jesus asked to be saved from remaining in death, i.e., to be resurrected (Ps. 16: 9, 10).
Been asking you to address the text for pages.FINALLY (the last one) (the previous ones were no quotes, just references)
Now we can see all together (in blue, 'Scripture', is the truth) None of the other questions were in question nor challenged, nor pertain to the false teaching.
The only false teaching challenged was from jm, in the OP
Nowhere in the Scripture, nor in this post, in the Scripture quoted by the OP (blue),
nor anywhere in Scripture,
does Jesus ask "to be saved from remaining in death, i.e. to be resurrected".
THAT is just the tip of the iceberg , btw, but here in this thread/op, it is the ONLY THING that was challenged, and remains so.
WHERE is it written that Jesus asks the Father to not be left in the grave, to be resurrected , (as if Jesus did not already know the plan) ?
"The expression, τὸν δυνάμενον σώζειν αὐτὸν ἐκ θανάτου, corresponding with πάντα δυνατά σοι of Mark 14:36, confirms the view that the "cup" which he prayed might pass from him, was the death before him, and that the purport of his prayer was, not to be raised from death after undergoing it, but to be saved from undergoing it."1. Why Did Jesus pray?
No. The prophecy is true. It does not say that Jesus asked "to not be left in the grave" (i.e. to be resurrected).This is a prophecy: Psalm 16:9-10. Much like other Psalms.
........
No, you kept sidetracking/ avoiding quoting the words which show that Jesus did not ask what you or jm said that you posted in the OP.Been asking you to address the text for pages.
No. The prophecy is true. It does not say that Jesus asked "to not be left in the grave" (i.e. to be resurrected).
See the previous post to this one.
This is a great commentary of Mark 14:36, but we are discussing Hebrews 6:7-8."The expression, τὸν δυνάμενον σώζειν αὐτὸν ἐκ θανάτου, corresponding with πάντα δυνατά σοι of Mark 14:36, confirms the view that the "cup" which he prayed might pass from him, was the death before him, and that the purport of his prayer was, not to be raised from death after undergoing it, but to be saved from undergoing it."
"the prayer expressed, not the deliberate desire of his Divine will, but only the inevitable shrinking of the human will from such an ordeal as was before him. As man, he experienced this shrinking to the full, and as man he craved deliverance, though with entire submission to the will of the Father. His human will did not oppose itself to the Divine will: it conformed itself in the end entirely to it; but this according to the necessary conditions of humanity, through the power of prayer. Had it not been so with him, his participation in human nature would have been incomplete; he would not have been such as to be "touched with a feeling of our infirmities, being in all things tempted like as we are;" nor would he have stood forth for ever as the great Example to mankind. St. John, who so deeply enters into and interprets the mind of Christ, records an utterance before the agony which anticipates its meaning (John 12): "The hour is come" (ver. 23); and then (ver. 27), "Now is my soul troubled; and what shall I say? Father, save me from this hour [cf. σώζειν ἐκ θανάτου]; but for this cause came I unto this hour. Father, glorify thy Name." The "hour" was that of the drinking of the cup (cf. Mark 14:35, "And prayed that, if it were possible, the hour might pass from him"). "Father, save me from this hour" was the human craving of the agony; but still, "Father, glorify thy Name" was the essence of the prayer; and perfect submission to the Divine will was the outcome of it, after this troubling of his human soul. The mystery surrounding the whole subject of the Divine and human in Christ remains still."
Yes, prophecy is true. Hebrews 5:7-10, events of the Word of God are also true.
Not sure what else to tell you, lol. I believe the Word of God.
I believe that in any Christian life...once we are born again we go on to maturity to the level of maturity God grants each unique individual and we are granted "the mind of Christ" as per I Corinthians. But, Christ was different...being true God and True man...He knew what He must do and that He would not shrink back.That said nothing about His learning things and or doing miracles before His baptism vs. after His baptism. You must have read that into my statement.
Jesus never stopped learning and growing up until the moment of His dismissing His Spirit.
Hopefully we, like Him and His disciples and Apostles, will continue to grow even after receiving the Spirit in power for ministry - right up until we go home - (assuming of course that one subscribes to that doctrine and does receive the Spirit in that way after being regenerated and justified as many don't).
Hebrews what ? haha, (sorry, tired and giddy and joyful)
Prophecy is true. Every word of God is true. The false teaching about it is false. That's what is being revealed this week.
Hi, I'm thinking about learning as a process of knowing what was previously unknown. Jesus is perfectly obedient but obedience unto death was previously unknown. That is the kind of knowing that Adam and Eve lacked in regards to evil before the fall.I'd like to know if there is a question in there or not...?
It does not mean that He had not been always doing the Father's will up to that point, just that, at that particular moment, if but for a moment, knowing what He was about to face and go through, seeing it all, etc, He might have been tempted, if only for a moment, to turn away from it/that, or doing that (The Father's will), if only for a moment in that moment, but He did not, etc, and did not ever, etc...
That's why I wanted to know if there was a question in there or not...?
God Bless!
Previously unknown to whom...?Hi, I'm thinking about learning as a process of knowing what was previously unknown. Jesus is perfectly obedient but obedience unto death was previously unknown. That is the kind of knowing that Adam and Eve lacked in regards to evil before the fall.
Thank you for asking. Peace.
That you don't understand is understandable. Don't worry. I don't evade some passages in the Bible. And no, it is not between me and God, nor is it between anyone else and God - it is for all Ekklesia, for everyone set apart by Him, for Him, in Him. The number of those on the narrow road to life are said to by how many? (by Jesus Himself)Be careful, God does not want us to be enemies of one another, for the body of Christ does not fight against itself.
I do not understand you or why you constantly evade some passages in the Bible.. but that is between you and God.Listen to the Word of God: 2 Timothy 2:14
IS Mark truth, or error ?This is a great commentary of Mark 14:36, but we are discussing Hebrews 6:7-8.
I don't know that any such fear is "godly", but His human fear such as it was was recognized in Scripture, and there is a reference to that I'll try to find in a little while as it tells why He Prayed to the Father, and what for, and what the answer was.His fear is a human weakness but at the same time it's godly.
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