Why does it make me mad?

[superdave]

Why does it make me mad when Fundementalist Christian groups attack the Charismatic Movement- when we are reaching the lost by thousands, and helping people know the Lord better. It makes me mad when I read words like 'Fanatical Charismania' or 'Wacky Cultist' or all of that. Why can't we live in Peace together as the body of Christ? I feel like we are persecuted alot for our stance. Is it wrong for me to feel a little bit of anger when I read crazy words of accusations?

 

[SpiritPsalmist]

It makes me a tad bit angry too Dave. One time someone called us a charasmatic mess. . .I thought I'm not a mess. . .I was a mess. . .but now I'm delivered.

We just gotta keep on keepin' on. . .only the opinion of Jesus matters.

 

[9-iron]

Quaffer pretty much nailed it Dave. Because we have made it a charasmatic MESS. Problem is way too many people are abusing the gifts. We have become more concerned about the gifts and manifestations than living obediently in the Kingdom. Good example, how many services have you been to, or seen on t.v., or heard about where there were forced or courtesy falling outs. Ask your denominational friends how many times in the past year someone has abused the gift of tongues. How many worship services do you know ended in charasmatic choas...Well that is your answer.
Basically they are scared and I don't blame them. It is more our fault that they are apprehensive about moving in the gifts. How many men do you know that will pray away in tongues 'during the moment' but treats his wife like **** 7 days a week, gets involved in behavior he shouldn't doesn't make good descisions. Where is the appeal in that.
You know the routine. I am not saying all the responsibility falls on the charasmatics, but it sure doesn't help things the way we act sometimes...

 

[SUNSTONE]

I believe it is the devil getting into our thoughts with divide and conquer scheme.

I hear people all the time, attack all of the denominations. Including Catholics.

Now I don't agree with all the denominations, and I love a good bashing as much as the next guy. []
But I feel we should keep a gaurd on what we say about others. How about instead of talking bad, how about spend that time saying a prayer?

 

[Andrew]

3 cheers for charismatics!
hip hip hip Hooooray!
hip hip hip Hoooooray!!
hip hip hip Hoooooray!!!

someone start dancin, someone start singing in tongues, someone start banging the drums! Someone prophesy!

 

[AlexSuttonUK]

hehe yeah i feel just the same guys, i used to go to a church which didnt accept the gifts at all and branded the charasmitic movement as wrong!, (which is wierd cause they are starting to come around now...but thats another story) byt yeah, it made me so mad cause i could see that the new places that i went to were bringing people to know jesus in the 100's! which was amazing to see, adn the people who were mocking it we not saving any one at all!.

Makes me mad but i know that we all love Jesus and that is the main thing.......i have to remind my self of that sometimes

 

[SpiritPsalmist]

3 cheers for charismatics!
hip hip hip Hooooray!
hip hip hip Hoooooray!!
hip hip hip Hoooooray!!!

someone start dancin, someone start singing in tongues, someone start banging the drums! Someone prophesy!

I agree. I don't think we're a mess at all. Sure we've made lot's of mistakes, but what church has'nt? That does not mean we give up and lay down defeated by the enemy.

I would much rather have a fire that has to be gotten under control than not have a fire at all. Unlike a fire in the natural. . . His fire does not distroy people, it distroys sin.

 

[imasharp]

My personal opinion is that a lot of people are afraid of it and rather than admit to it, they raise a fuss and have a problem with it. I have been guilty of doing the same with other issues. I have to watch what I say. I try to get the facts before forming an opinion. I do have to say, that is seems easier to just growl and make up stuff than to pray, search the Bible and talk to people that care.
Christy

 

[sparrow]

I don't like the way other denominations sometimes treat charismatics, but I also don't like the way some charismatics treat everyone else. Some non-charismatics frown upon charismatics because it seems so wild and spontaneous, which is understandable. I mean, each to their own. But I don't like the way that they think it is ridiculous to connect with God in this way. They should just respect charismatics and let them worship how they want to.
However, charismatics are guilty of this too. I find that some charismatics think they are "superior" to non-charismatics because they are receiving the holy spirit in more obvious ways.
Basically, I wish everyone would just let everyone else live and worship in peace, in whatever way they want to. Talk about an ideal world .

 

[EJO]

I feel the same way you do clairywairy. I do not go to a charismatic church per se- it is a contemporary church.
But at times with some of my charismatic friends, they treat me as if I fall short in 'really' experiencing God, and their church services would allow me to experience God in a more complete full way. It seams more of a sales pitch.

 

[imasharp]

I believe that people should be treated great no matter what. I am a charismatic christian, I guess. I don't think of it that way. I just think that I believe in the Bible. I do think that I believe right or I wouldn't be solid. I do however think that Ican talk to you or anyone and voice my opinions when asked. I don't have to be a jerk about it. I can be loving and kind like all christians are to be. As for some of the people putting you down. That is horrible. What I believe in is gifts from God. I believe that he will give to you as you ask and are ready for them. I by no means believe that anyone is in danger of hell, because of not having a gift of tongues. The Bible doesn't say that anywhere.
Christy

 

[SpiritPsalmist]

I feel the same way you do clairywairy. I do not go to a charismatic church per se- it is a contemporary church.
But at times with some of my charismatic friends, they treat me as if I fall short in 'really' experiencing God, and their church services would allow me to experience God in a more complete full way. It seams more of a sales pitch.

I could almost guarentee that your Charasmatic friends do not intend to come off this way. Could it possibly be though that you feel inferiour around them due to their "experience" of joy? I'm not saying that this is always the issue, however, I use to work with a non-charasmatic religious orginazation.

I had been a Christian for a long time but I got caught up in the renewal/revivel that hit the Penticostal church I was attending and there was a very dramatic change in the joy in my life. I never told anyone what was going on in my church. I never talked about tongues. And, in my knowledge I did not put anyone that I worked with down but there were times when I merely walked into the room and the aggitation in the others would be quite noticible.

I'm a fairly quiet person by just my being happy and joyful and trusting in Jesus was such an irritation that they made up stories about me and eventually got me fired. . .merely because my presense made them uncomfortable.

The reason I know this is that one person I've remained very good friends told me all the stuff everyone came and told her about me when they saw she was becoming friends with me. She says she's glad she did not listen to them because none of the stuff they told her was true and she considers me one of her best friends.

I know it's easy to feel like the odd-man out but it's not intended. Really.

 

[The Midge]

It does not matter whether or not Charismatics intend to be holier than thou or not they often do. There is a temptation to become experienced based and lose sight of the value of theology or the Word and tradition. When a church starts basing their assessment of godliness on how much manifestation is about they can be blind to other strengths and weaknesses.

Testing the spirits of prophets, discernment and orderly worship are ignored at our peril. If a Church is too busy swinging from the chandeliers or doing animal impersonation for a bit of spiritual and common sense they could be down the road to heresy before they realise it. In that case constructive critism from our feloow belivers is justified and necessary.

IMO the bible is clear about miracles and the Holy Spirit continually being active in the Church. It is funny how Bible literalists can come to another conclusion If the age of the Holy Spirit had come to an end why did Paul bother to write three chapters about their use to the Corinthians?

 

[SpiritPsalmist]

It does not matter whether or not Charismatics intend to be holier than thou or not they often do. There is a temptation to become experienced based and lose sight of the value of theology or the Word and tradition. When a church starts basing their assessment of godliness on how much manifestation is about they can be blind to other strengths and weaknesses.

Testing the spirits of prophets, discernment and orderly worship are ignored at our peril. If a Church is too busy swinging from the chandeliers or doing animal impersonation for a bit of spiritual and common sense they could be down the road to heresy before they realise it. In that case constructive critism from our feloow belivers is justified and necessary.

IMO the bible is clear about miracles and the Holy Spirit continually being active in the Church. It is funny how Bible literalists can come to another conclusion If the age of the Holy Spirit had come to an end why did Paul bother to write three chapters about their use to the Corinthians?

In my opinion it does matter.

No one can judge someone else's heart and mind except for God. I'd say the majority of the time, out of our own insecurities, we inappropriately judge others and accuse them of things that are untrue. And that, I believe is the problem of the accuser. . . not the accused.

I heard someone say once, "what you do with what you see shows whether you are following the accuser or the Redeemer."

If we are truly following our Redeemer, we would never accuse another brother and sister of making us feel less than what the Word says we are. . .because we would know that accusation for what it truly is. . . a lie. . .from the father of lies.

And regarding those who really are feeling superior. . .do you stop doing your laundry just because someone on TV insinuates that you can do it better if you use their product? Of course not. Then why would you think that it's OK to put God given gifts aside just because someone using them thinks they are better than you.

If you're following the Redeemer, and I believe you are, then your job is to pray for them that they mature in what God is leading them into. To judge them puts you on the same side as THE accuser and he does not need any help, thank you very much.

There is no way that any one of us humans can accurately measure which group does more good and which group does more harm. . .only God can accurately do that and He says He looks at the heart. So. . .even to Him the intent of the person does matter.

We're called to maturity, not to act as school children in a playground brawl but to walk as Christ did.

We can do all the right works but if our heart does not match it is worthless and will burn with the chaff when we stand before Him. On the other hand, one can also do everything wrong (according to man) but have a pure heart and God will view it as Gold and it will stand the test of the fire.

We need to be more concerned about how our own hearts are going to stand that test. All of us are going to take it ya know.

 

[superdave]

One thing that kind of makes me a little upset... is one person will just be like so blunt to you... it's not even funny. For example, I share my problems and one person who was a charismatic like I am said, "That's because there is something wrong with you... with your faith..."--- uh no... If I feel like junk one day- I want to talk to someone and I want them to hear me out. They can speak truth but they don't have to be so blunt sometimes. Maybe this is just what I have experienced. To me when somebody tells you why you are having a crappy day is just "a lack of faith" it makes it come off as arogant to me.

I am not saying Charismatics are perfect people or they have-- some super power. In some ways I think Charismatic, can become like little children with bazookas and they don't know how to operate the gifts (leaving lots of people hurt if used uncorrectly). Thats why authority is so important when it comes to things like tongues and prophecy.

But that's off track...

I have never seen once a Charismatic site- post negative remarks against a fundamentalist group. But yet... that's all that Fundamentalist seem to do nowadays. It seems like to me... Type in "Charismatic Movement" in your search box- and you can have handfulls of "hate" sites towards the Charismatic Church. I read things like Cindy Jacobs being a incarnation of Jezebel, things like Paul Yonggi Cho-pastor of Full Gospel Church in Seoul, South Korea (the largest church in the world) being a buddihist and a cultist. That kind of stuff really makes me kind of little angry. But oh well... I know I am not alone now... I guess.

 

[SpiritPsalmist]

One thing that kind of makes me a little upset... is one person will just be like so blunt to you... it's not even funny. For example, I share my problems and one person who was a charismatic like I am said, "That's because there is something wrong with you... with your faith..."--- uh no... If I feel like junk one day- I want to talk to someone and I want them to hear me out. They can speak truth but they don't have to be so blunt sometimes. Maybe this is just what I have experienced. To me when somebody tells you why you are having a crappy day is just "a lack of faith" it makes it come off as arogant to me.

I am not saying Charismatics are perfect people or they have-- some super power. In some ways I think Charismatic, can become like little children with bazookas and they don't know how to operate the gifts (leaving lots of people hurt if used uncorrectly). Thats why authority is so important when it comes to things like tongues and prophecy.

But that's off track...

I have never seen once a Charismatic site- post negative remarks against a fundamentalist group. But yet... that's all that Fundamentalist seem to do nowadays. It seems like to me... Type in "Charismatic Movement" in your search box- and you can have handfulls of "hate" sites towards the Charismatic Church. I read things like Cindy Jacobs being a incarnation of Jezebel, things like Paul Yonggi Cho-pastor of Full Gospel Church in Seoul, South Korea (the largest church in the world) being a buddihist and a cultist. That kind of stuff really makes me kind of little angry. But oh well... I know I am not alone now... I guess.

You're right Dave, but we're all learning to grow up and while we can admit that we know that already, it does still hurt. But think about this. . .if God says He gives us a Spirit of love, power, and a sound mind, where do you suppose the spirit of hurt, failure, and feeling stupid comes from?

It does not come from God. So whenever this happens to me. . .these feelings of hurt, failure, and stupidity, etc., I view it as an opportunity to grow. I can start by telling those emotions to be quiet and begin quoting to myself what God says. "Self, God says, He's given you a Spirit. . .a Holy Spirit. . . A Spirit of love. A Spirit of Power. And a Spirit of a sound mind. So self, you just stop your little pity party and listen to God, because while the way you feel may be facts. . .they are certaintly not the Truth."

That may sound silly but the Bible says, "faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word". So even if those words have to come out of my own mouth for my ears to hear them, then I will do it. That will help build my faith. It will draw me closer to God. It will be resisting the devil. And it will be causing him to flee.

And most of all. . . it will cause me to grow.

We're called to be warriors. . .not whimps.

 

[Grace_Alone4gives]

Mind if I step in. I belong to a Reformed church - HOWEVER we are semi-charasmatic so to say. We act in the gifts, dance, lift hands etc..

Howver - i have to agree with the one poster that said that Charasmatics themselves, can give themselves a bad name. I have witnessed many charasmatic Christians abusing the gifts, tongues imparticular. I mean, hooting and howling and barking and mooing and tongues 24/7 doesn't seem biblical to me.

Like I said - I am charasmatic - biut to some extend...I believe focus should be on God - not on How we feel or what gifts we can use next.

 

[superdave]

I read Acts and the apostles were so strong in the gifts of the holy spirit. They healed people right on the spot. They cast out demons and all of that- Jesus shown on them that 3,000 people came to the lord in one day. The question I want to ask- is why can't we be like them. It says in the word that in the last days we will prophesy, heal people, see visions... It seems like I only have a small cup of that. I want to be like the Apostles... strong and full of the Holy Spirit.

 

[altya]

Mind if I step in. I belong to a Reformed church - HOWEVER we are semi-charasmatic so to say. We act in the gifts, dance, lift hands etc..

Howver - i have to agree with the one poster that said that Charasmatics themselves, can give themselves a bad name. I have witnessed many charasmatic Christians abusing the gifts, tongues imparticular. I mean, hooting and howling and barking and mooing and tongues 24/7 doesn't seem biblical to me.

Like I said - I am charasmatic - biut to some extend...I believe focus should be on God - not on How we feel or what gifts we can use next.

You are so right the focus should ALWAYS be on God

I believe we all have to go through a spiritual growing process – from re-born do a mature Christian. The young (baby) Christians also receive spiritual gifts and don’t exactly know how to use them. I can still re-call my baby Christian days – I made so much mistakes and a complete fool of myself. If I now see someone in our church do the same I teach them in a very nice way how to handle the gifts. With this too you have to be very careful, baby Christians take offence very easy. You will know a mature Christian by his/her words and actions it will be similar to Jesus.

 

[SpiritPsalmist]

I read Acts and the apostles were so strong in the gifts of the holy spirit. They healed people right on the spot. They cast out demons and all of that- Jesus shown on them that 3,000 people came to the lord in one day. The question I want to ask- is why can't we be like them. It says in the word that in the last days we will prophesy, heal people, see visions... It seems like I only have a small cup of that. I want to be like the Apostles... strong and full of the Holy Spirit.

superdave,

I believe we can be like the Apostles. I also believe these things are beginning to happen more frequently than we realize.

Scripture does not tell us all the events of the meetings in the New Testament churches. We don't really know everything that happend. In my personal opinion, I think that their meetings frequently had the same happeings as on the day of Penticost. The people on the outside thought they were all drunk, and I think that many meeting they apperared to be drunk.

I believe they shouted and hooted, and did whatever was known for that day as celebrative actions.

That's not to say that I believe that everything people do is of God. . .but I do believe it is their flesh reacting to God's presense.

It is not wrong for the flesh to respond to God's presense. Our flesh responds in many way's to all sorts of stimuli but when it comes to God people seem to think we're just supposed to stand quietly and not move.

We see Daniel falling continuously due to what he was seeing. We also see it with the Apostle John in the book of revelation. When Jesus was arrested in the garden when He spoke the words "I AM", the whole army of men fell backwards. Their flesh was responding.

I have also seen the flesh respond due to demons on a person throwing fits because of the strong presense of God. Demons especially do not like worship services. They begin to mainifest pretty strongly when there is the possibility of them losing their place of residense.

That's why ALL the gifts need to be in operation. Just because someone "may" be operating wrongly does not mean all of it stops. It does mean that the other gifts step in, such as discenment, and people are set free because they recognise it as the demon it is. When all the gifts are not in operation then there is the probabilty of error. But then we must trust that "God works all things together for good for those who love Him."

As we draw nigh to God and resist the devil, he, the devil will flee from us. As we get to know God more intimately, we will begin to overflow with His presense. Then, everwhere we go that Living Water will flow over onto all we come in contact with.

I don't know that we will always know what is happening around us but again, the scripture says, "And he shall be like a tree planted by the rivers of water, that brings forth its fruit in its season, whose leaf also shall not wither; and whatever he does shall prosper" (Ps 1:3)

It's our job to pursue God with everything in us. . .it's His job to fill us to overflowing. . .and that happens by continuously being in His presense.