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And what if those deaths and cost were apart of a greater plan?
Indeed. What of those who are now saved or found God as a result of Katrina. Or what of those who know God truly exists now because of Katrina?
What a self righteous bigoted response. You have God's answer, and now you have God's plan, and yet you are content in allowing billions to die, rather than placing yourself in a position to fill a need. you would rather point to all else that is lacking in the world. than doing something now! It seems that you are content to wallow in your self righteousness.I think that shows a lot about your moral character, although I doubt you care about morals since the only thing you seem to care about is God and afterlife. This is exactly how Islamic terrorists think. It's dangerous to be so fervent in a belief (ESPECIALLY a God belief) that you'll say "No, I wouldn't save millions of starving children if I could do it with the snap of a finger."
your analogy is not consistent with what God has put into place. God allows for the physics of fire. He gives us pain receptors to sense fire, and the damages it causes. Whether we burn our children intentionally or if they accidentally fall into fire has nothing to do with the physics that have been put into place that allow for fire. god will not change the physics of fire just so foolish children or neglectful parents do not hurt themselves. Fire is a tool It is neither Good or bad. Subsequently not every child who burns himself in a fire is a result of "bad parenting."I disagree. Imagine you are a parent, and your child walks over to a strip of hot coals on the ground. You may say "Don't walk on those coals, you'll burn yourself." The child may still be defiant and go for it. So the child walks on the hot coals and pays the consequences of his action - his feet start to burn. Then another consequence (that he didn't think about) happens, and the child falls onto the coals, burning his entire body. As he/she lays there screaming in agony, as a watching parent do you bail your child out and lift them off the coals? Or do you let them suffer the consequences of their choice and lay there burning until they die?
Again, your analogy does not reflect any of what we are talking about here. Nothing being illustrated by your efforts accurately represent God, or the choices we have been given. If you truly believe that it does then please take the time and connect the dots for me.Now let's take it a step further and relate this more to what we're talking about. Imagine a random guy in the park takes your child and throws them on the hot coals. Do you run and help your child off the coals, or do you allow them to suffer the consequences of the choice that a random man made?
And if it takes weeks/months of excruciating pain. And I doubt a 2 month old Somalian baby is prepared to die.
I disagree.Um God doesn't help.
It is sad, but it does not look like you are looking for the answers you claim to be looking for. If you are why not address what I wrote? Why have you ignored it and simply restated your "feelings" and draw analogies that do not connect with what is being discussed.Having a book written that says "love other people" is not helping solve the problem of world hunger, cancer, hurricanes, earthquakes, etc. Having a book that says "love other people" isn't unique either, there are hundreds of books that preach that very thing.
What is truly pathetic is a finite closed minded person attempting to judge God for not acting in the small predictable steps that person want to see God work.That is a pathetic attempt at "help" to someone with infinite power. I'm talking about physically intervening like he was said to have done thousands of years ago. He was even gracious enough to wipe out our entire species to "help" us out.
Does a God who has infinite power and love place "more" or "less" concern on things? Doesn't he infinitely have the most concern for everything? It shouldn't take God any more effort to maximally care for our personal comfort as well as maximally care for our soul.
So wiping out millions of innocent people saves their souls? I'd like to see you explain this one.
Again, how does allowing some kid in Kenya die of starvation make their hearts right? Do you think starving children all magically discover God by themselves as a result of starving?
Please explain the positive sides of world hunger and hurricanes.
That's insane. Absolutely insane.
"9/11 had much better positives than negatives", what an insulting statement.
Aside from thousands of INNOCENT lives here and overseas, 9/11 cost us TRILLIONS of dollars and fueled our militarism in the Middle East, which costs us TRILLIONS more and is putting the US in debt it may never recover from.
your analogy is not consistent with what God has put into place. God allows for the physics of fire. He gives us pain receptors to sense fire, and the damages it causes. Whether we burn our children intentionally or if they accidentally fall into fire has nothing to do with the physics that have been put into place that allow for fire. god will not change the physics of fire just so foolish children or neglectful parents do not hurt themselves. Fire is a tool It is neither Good or bad. Subsequently not every child who burns himself in a fire is a result of "bad parenting."
Again, your analogy does not reflect any of what we are talking about here. Nothing being illustrated by your efforts accurately represent God, or the choices we have been given. If you truly believe that it does then please take the time and connect the dots for me.
It is sad, but it does not look like you are looking for the answers you claim to be looking for. If you are why not address what I wrote? Why have you ignored it and simply restated your "feelings" and draw analogies that do not connect with what is being discussed.
Funny, just a few hours someone said something almost identical on a television interview, and no one thought it was "insulting" or "insane."
Fact is, 9/11 did bring people together. For a while, we stopped caring about political parties, but we united as Americans. For a little while, we stopped caring about offending people with religious prayers, and we turned to God to heal our nation. Many people turned to God and were saved as a result.
And when children die,they go to heaven(many people die because of hunger when they are small most of the times).
-2- He set them for us,so we can help them and show if we are good or how good we are.
-3- Because of pain,people in the afterlife's rewards can get multiplied,and/or their punishments would be lessened.
-4- Through hunger,people can stop caring about the actual life,and put their eyes on the eternal one so they do the will of God etc.
-5-Because the world turned its back on him,faith and belief and love are decreasing and people are only doing what causes him to be sad.People arent leaving their burdens to God anymore.
-6- Most people nowadays dont believe in God,and most of the believers dont ask,seek,knock (this can be both used as a cause and a consequence for hunger in order that people believe/get closer to god) .
Where in the Bible does it say unbaptized unbelieving children go to heaven?
This is completely against the doctrine of Christianity. Good deeds do not get you into heaven, only accepting Christ will.
Where are you pulling this from?
Are you completely delusional? The millions of starving children (and adults) in Africa do not all find God due to starvation. They get sick, desperately try to find food to stay alive, and then die.
So God punishes us by allowing millions of innocent people to die a slow, torturous death. That's loving.
And as I've said, you're completely delusional if you think starvation brings people to God.
Hold on here. My analogy has nothing to do with the "physics of fire" just like what I'm comparing it to has nothing to do with the "biology of starvation". What are you honestly talking about? My analogy is about a parent helping their child out of a fire, not letting them suffer the full consequences of their actions.
I'll try to make this as short and plain as I possibly can:
If you see a random man pick your child up and throw them into a pile of hoat coals, would you run and pull your child out of the fire? It's a human nature question I'm asking you.
How the analogy is consistent with God/world hunger: you seem to say that world hunger is one result of man's imperfection and ability to sin. Because man has sinned for the past 200,000 years, we still feel those consequences; even innocent people like children in Somalia feels the consequences of the sins from random men.
Now like the random man that threw your kid into a pile of coals, random men cause other children to have a lack of food and die of starvation. In the hot coal scenario, you (the loving parent) have the power to pull your child out of the fire and prevent them from suffering the consequence of death. In the world hunger scenario, God (the loving parent) has the power to feed that starving innocent child and prevent them from suffering the consequence of death.
I'm going to assume that you would pull your child from the pile of hot coals. God does not save his children from starvation, he let's them suffer the consequence of death. Our human nature is not consistent with God's nature, which makes the Biblical statement "We were created in God's image" contradicting and false.
And now to use this analogy to describe how you are replying: let's say this burning pile of coals is in a public park. Random man comes and throws your kid into the pile, and you (the parent) sits and let's it happen, because that's the consequence of being thrown into a pile of coals. What you're doing is saying "Well why don't the other people in the park go and help the child burning in the coals? Why should the parent be responsible for the safety of his child? If everyone did their part, that child would have been rescued in no time." Do you see how your replies make absolutely no sense? You are saying a parent shouldn't be fully responsible (and do everything in their power) for the protection of their child. That's not how we act.
Starvation isn't a peaceful process that happens overnight. It can take months for someone food-deprived to die, and the days grow excruciatingly painful.
Because from the beginning your responses have not been on topic with my questions. I ask why God doesn't help and you answer with "Well why aren't YOU doing the best you can?" This is simply dodging my question, refer to the analogy above for more detail.
ad hominem witchcraft babbble
What makes your efforts a "witch hunt" is you ignored the discrepancies between your analogy and how the bible portrays God's role. You did this to persecute or hold us to account for God's perceived actions.You asked me to spell out my analogy, I did, and you reply with more rabble about me being on a "witch hunt" to "persecute" God.
Because you did not present an "open and honest" analogy. you presented a scenario that made it easy for you to persecute the perceived actions of God. When I attempted to correct, you ignored the correction and followed up with more inflammatory remarks.You didn't even attempt to face the analogy with an open and honest mind.
Because what you compared is not a scriptural account of God's actions. I went through a lot to explain our purposes here, and God's expressed plans for our existence. None of which were included in your 'analogy.'If you can do that, break down my analogy and tell me where it's flawed. Your first attempt had NOTHING to do with what the analogy was comparing.
God didn't heal our nation though. Thousands of people died and we launched ourselves into pointless wars overseas (killing hundreds of thousands more). We went trillions of dollars into debt-hole that we're only digging ourselves deeper into now.
Your ignorance honestly depresses me, because I know there are a lot of people like you out there who feel the same way. Faith corrupts you from seeing reality for what it actually is. It's corrupted you so much in fact that you support the idea that 9/11 was a good thing. Horrifying.
Am I Seriously expected engage every fallacy you bring into the conversation, Or are you here to Explore Christianity? If the latter then know you will be expected to drop 'analogies' that do not represent The God of the bible or a Christian world view.
Whether we burn our children intentionally or if they accidentally fall into fire has nothing to do with the physics that have been put into place that allow for fire.
god will not change the physics of fire just so foolish children or neglectful parents do not hurt themselves.
After 9/11, our security was increased, and we started fighting the terrorist threat. While the method used to fight that threat may not be ideal, I would hardly consider it a "pointless war."
As for the trillions of dollars of debt we're accumulating, I have one word for you: Obama. You really think we needed 9/11 to spend money we don't have?
Funny. I feel the same way about you, but it's your arrogance that bothers me more than your ignorance. Your blatant skepticism is corrupting your thinking, but there is nothing wrong with my faith. My faith is the greatest part of me.
When did I say that 9/11 was a good thing? Never. Stop putting words in my mouth. I said that there are positives to every tragedy. And yes, tragedy is the word I used.
And yeah, when you conveniently define healing as resurrecting every lost life, it's pretty easy to say that God didn't heal us.
You keep blaming God
when you get to know God personally or be as intelligent as him,then you can judge him all you want.
Our security was increased only because we were attacked. And it only increased for a short period of time AND people still got weapons on planes after 9/11 AND the TSA is now just another way to sexually assault people at airports.
What a joke. This isn't about Obama (who if you care to know - I hate as a president) or his spending. It's about the spending on militarism that was caused and started with 9/11 (Bush).
Your faith leads you to say quite foolish things, like there were more positives than negatives from 9/11, and then responding with "Obama" in a discussion about 9/11 when he wasn't even president.
You said there were much more positives to come from it than negatives. When something is more positive than it is negative, it is a good (positive) thing.
Not sure where you're going with this, but all I'd have to say is can you prove anybody was resurrected?
I'm not sure I buy your assumption that the TSA is regularly sexually assaulting people.
We've somehow been able to prevent any other 9/11 type attempts on our country.
Our government has always been good at finding ways to waste money. They definitely don't need the excuse of war to start throwing money in the air.
You're allowed to disagree with me all you like, but it's arrogant of your to call me foolish or insane because of our different viewpoints.
If you want to speak statistically, only a very small portion of our population was killed.
The hundreds of millions of us who didn't die are the ones who experienced the positives.
If I had to weigh the worth of a saved soul compared to the cost of a lost life, the saved soul would be of infinitely greater worth.
The difference between how I see things and the way you do is this: I believe that God is in charge, and I trust He knows what is best for us.
I'm saying that God did heal our nation. But what you would define as healing, which from what you've said so far seems to include:
How many souls were saved as a result of 9/11? Can you back your answer up? And did you know that converts to Islam spiked directly after 9/11? How many thousands of souls were lost to a false religion because of 9/11?
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