Why does God not just show himself?

[Breaking Babylon]

In the words of Saint Paul, to the Corinthians...

And I, brethren, when I came to you, did not come with excellence of speech or of wisdom declaring to you the testimony of God. For I determined not to know anything among you except Jesus Christ and Him crucified. I was with you in weakness, in fear, and in much trembling. And my speech and my preaching were not with persuasive words of human wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power.

That your faith should not be in the wisdom of men but in the power of God.

However, we speak wisdom among those who are mature, yet not the wisdom of this age, nor of the rulers of this age, who are coming to nothing. But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, the hidden wisdom which God ordained before the ages for our glory, which none of the rulers of this age knew; for had they known, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.

But as it is written: “Eye has not seen, nor ear heard, Nor have entered into the heart of man The things which God has prepared for those who love Him.” But God has revealed them to us through His Spirit. For the Spirit searches all things, yes, the deep things of God. For what man knows the things of a man except the spirit of the man which is in him? Even so no one knows the things of God except the Spirit of God.

Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, that we might know the things that have been freely given to us by God. These things we also speak, not in words which man’s wisdom teaches but which the Holy Spirit teaches, comparing spiritual things with spiritual.

But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. But he who is spiritual judges all things, yet he himself is rightly judged by no one. For “who has known the mind of the Lord that he may instruct Him?” But we have the mind of Christ.

 

[YourChild]

YourChild..I respectfully disagree.
' Your guard ' can cause you not to consider falsehood
but also not to consider truth. I know the feeling of
' The truth is all on my side '. I used to feel that way too. People of other religions think that way and it is hard for them to change their way of thinking.

Thats why its called a deception. if you look at other religions, it is a works based salvation religion.. other religions says that you can literally "earn" your way into heaven by doing good works. it is a man centered - works based religion. God does not owe us anything...if anything, we're the ones in debt to Him for violating His Law. It is like the criminal who is fined for commiting a crime. on earth we might be able to pay the fine for breaking civil law. But when you break God's Law, the 10 Commandments, you cant do anything to pay it off. all the good works you do is useless. you can receive salvation only by faith...by humbly and gladly accepting it. you will only find this in Christianity.

The expression " allowing the enemy to poison your mind " is frequently used in opposing positions. AnAtheist could say the same to you....

but I always thought that Satan
DIDN'T actually have access to our minds, I thought only God did

yea the atheist can sure say it to me too. but only 1 of us is right....consider this...After i got saved, that is, after I TRULY REPENTED, that is, after the Holy Spirit brought conviction into my heart and I literally broke down in tears and cried my eyes out, a while later..maybe a month or so....i started to hear curse words directed at Jesus inside my mind. it was so loud and clear that i could not stop these voices from blaspheming the Lord. I would go to sleep and the minute I wake up, cus words against the Lord would storm up again in my head. But my heart was all for Christ. why then would my mind be cursing at Him? do you think i would want to curse at the One I truly love?
Do you mentally curse at your mom or dad? do you mentally curse at your husband while you're missing him and thinking about him throughout the day?

Oh and I also heard me cursing at myself too! and you say only God has access to your mind? sorry but you've been lied to. the devil also does too.

 

[Zeena]

Until THIS [2000 years ago] day the Kingdom of Heaven has suffered violence, and the violdent take if violently :o

NOW, it's taken ONLY by it's rightful ruler!

JESUS!

 

[KCDAD]

Thats why its called a deception. if you look at other religions, it is a works based salvation religion.. other religions says that you can literally "earn" your way into heaven by doing good works. it is a man centered - works based religion. God does not owe us anything...if anything, we're the ones in debt to Him for violating His Law. It is like the criminal who is fined for commiting a crime. on earth we might be able to pay the fine for breaking civil law. But when you break God's Law, the 10 Commandments, you cant do anything to pay it off. all the good works you do is useless. you can receive salvation only by faith...by humbly and gladly accepting it. you will only find this in Christianity.




yea the atheist can sure say it to me too. but only 1 of us is right....consider this...After i got saved, that is, after I TRULY REPENTED, that is, after the Holy Spirit brought conviction into my heart and I literally broke down in tears and cried my eyes out, a while later..maybe a month or so....i started to hear curse words directed at Jesus inside my mind. it was so loud and clear that i could not stop these voices from blaspheming the Lord. I would go to sleep and the minute I wake up, cus words against the Lord would storm up again in my head. But my heart was all for Christ. why then would my mind be cursing at Him? do you think i would want to curse at the One I truly love?
Do you mentally curse at your mom or dad? do you mentally curse at your husband while you're missing him and thinking about him throughout the day?

Oh and I also heard me cursing at myself too! and you say only God has access to your mind? sorry but you've been lied to. the devil also does too.

Satan wasn't cursing you.. you were. You had to face the fact that you thought you were a hopeless sinner. That God had judged you as worthy of death because of your sinfulness and rebellion. The part of you that repented left a side of you that was the evil part. It was that evil part that was cursing.

The only problem is... it is the side that repented that was wrong and evil. You were created perfect. You are perfect. What you call sin merely a selfishness that was taught to you from the moment you were born. You blaspheme God when you call his creation evil, sinful and worthy of death. God called ALL of his creation good. ALL of it. Just think about that for a moment. The angels, animals, humans... ALL good and perfect in God's perfectness. Whence comes "sin"? What went wrong with perfection? Nothing. Only our perception of ourselves has changed... we now see ourselves as "naked" before God... what we call sinful. The truth is we were created this way.

 

[marshamarshamarsha]

YourChild : As I said, I may be wrong, but I really don't think Satan has access to one's mind. What I mean by ' access ' is... being able to read our minds or make our minds think a certain way. Satan can greatly influence
us so that we think a certain way..he is a master psycologist ! But I just don't think God would allow him
to be able to actually BE in our minds. Certainly not
in a saved person's. And actually maybe not in an unsaved person either because you wouldn't have free will or choice then.
There's places in the Bible where it talks about Demon
Possesion...but I think these cases were in ' not as yet saved ' people...and/or people who very willingly sought after Satan.
Do you or anyone.. know of ANY place in the Bible where it clearly says that Satan CAN be in our minds (not our minds just influenced by him ) ?

 

[Zeena]

Mark 3:24
And if a kingdom be divided against itself, that kingdom cannot stand.

Mark 3:27
No man can enter into a strong man's house, and spoil his goods, except he will first bind the strong man; and then he will spoil his house.

You are NOT divided against youself if the Spirit of God Lives in you!

We war against the flesh!
We don't beat the air like blind men, NO!

We fight with purpose!
Yet not us but Christ in us!

DUALISTIC views are a FATAL blow to faith!!!

 

[marshamarshamarsha]

One more thing about the ' Satan in the mind ' issue...
I think that many Christians give Satan more credit than he deserves ! According to the Bible, he's just a fallen angel isn't he ? ( though the most powerful, beautiful and evil ) But he doesn't have God's power.
For some Christians, it comes easy to blame Satan when really it's the person themselves ( except in cases where no choice could be made, but then there should be no blame either ) God gave us all free will/choice to say yes or no. Even God doesn't violate that.
In my opinion, if a person is struggling in their mind and even actually hears voices...it's not Satan or God. It's
something going on within the person, caused by a physical mental condition or problem of some sort
( even extreme stress ).

 

[YourChild]

One more thing about the ' Satan in the mind ' issue...
I think that many Christians give Satan more credit than he deserves ! According to the Bible, he's just a fallen angel isn't he ? ( though the most powerful, beautiful and evil ) But he doesn't have God's power.
For some Christians, it comes easy to blame Satan when really it's the person themselves ( except in cases where no choice could be made, but then there should be no blame either ) God gave us all free will/choice to say yes or no. Even God doesn't violate that.
In my opinion, if a person is struggling in their mind and even actually hears voices...it's not Satan or God. It's
something going on within the person, caused by a physical mental condition or problem of some sort
( even extreme stress ).

satan cannot read our minds but he can put thoughts into our mind...

well marsha..you seem to understand pretty well that satan exists and that he is lurking around this world..out for no other than to kill, steal, and destroy. and since you do acknowledge his existence, why do you deny God's existence? doesnt this already tell you something about the type of "influence" that the devil has left upon you?

 

[YourChild]

Satan wasn't cursing you.. you were. You had to face the fact that you thought you were a hopeless sinner. That God had judged you as worthy of death because of your sinfulness and rebellion. The part of you that repented left a side of you that was the evil part. It was that evil part that was cursing.

what do you mean I left the evil part of me? theres only 1 me. when I repented, I went from an unrighteous sinner, to a justified righteous child of God in Christ. I didn't split into 2 of me, 1 good and 1 bad. It was the devil cursing inside my head. he was angry because i had given my life to God and no longer belong to him.

and i'll tell you something else here. whenever I do something like go witnessing, sharing the Good News of Salvation to others...the cursing comes back...but when i sit back and dont witness, the cursing goes away...

the devil will attack you when he is mad at you. one of his ways is blaspheming God in your mind.

 

[marshamarshamarsha]

Well yeah, YourChild, I've been a Christian for many years ( 25 or so ).. so I know about some things. The past couple of years , though, I've been reassesing
my original beliefs and their foundation. I'm wondering
now ' why ' I was so quick to believe some things,
that quite frankly don't seem to make a lot of sense.
But I haven't completely given up hope that God exists.
I'm hoping to eventually get some questions answered
that will satisfy my common sense and logic, and thus my soul. And yeah...it ' could ' be Satan's influence
that's causing my dilema. But then again...when common sense and logic is called 'Satan's Influence '...
I start to feel like I'm in the Middle Ages.
If God gave us the analytical minds that we have...
He should have the answers somewhere out there that many of us need. I hope to find them.
One more thing...I know you think the cursing in your
mind is from Satan, and maybe it is. But have you ever considered the possibility that it might be ( through no fault of your own ) an OCD ? It's a very common disorder and there are remedies for it. You can ' Google '
it and see what you think. Just a thought.
Thank you for your input on your posts !
You have given me much to think about !

 

[marcb]

I think your questioning will bring you into a deeper relationship with God, Marsha. I have had many questions which I suppressed for fear of losing my faith. However, each question leads me deeper into the mystery of God. Each question leads to wrestling and sometimes I get hurt, but God is there and real. On the other side of the questions are a maturing faith. Your questioning puts you in good company: Abraham, Moses, David, Thomas, Paul - All rocks of faith who doubted, sinned, and questioned. God showed great mercy on these people.

I don't have much use for determining what the devil the devil is doing. He has lost and is somewhat irrelevant in my mind. This comes after a lifetime of fear of him. I have OCD - quite a case of it. I can relate to your struggles, YourChild. I am not saying you have it, but all this sounds familiar. Entertain this perpective for a moment, I have given this much thought and have experienced this first hand. Witnessing and sharing your faith requires stepping out and you are so faithful for allowing God to work through you. Stepping out in our minds requires some risk, perhaps triggering anxiety, which can lead to intrusive (or unwanted) thoughts (cursing, blasphemy). Sure, it's possible the devil could be taking advantage of our weakness, but I'll ask you, why then is he responding to the meds I'm taking? I've learned that worrying about the devil is like worrying that the Bears won the Super Bowl. It's over, they lost - an irrational worry for Christians (or Colts fans). Am I making sense?
This is less of a spirtual battle and more of a condition. My other OCD symptoms (fear of germs, fear of leaving the coffee pot on, even though I checked 5 minutes ago) were not spiritual battles.

For anyone interested or concerned about someone who suffers with these types of issues, there is an OCD section of Christian Forums.

Please understand, Yourchild, I am not diagnosing you, or even suggesting this is your problem. I am just trying to share how my experiences are very similar, so that you might look at this from a fresh angle. PM anytime.

Marc

 

[KCDAD]

what do you mean I left the evil part of me? theres only 1 me. when I repented, I went from an unrighteous sinner, to a justified righteous child of God in Christ. I didn't split into 2 of me, 1 good and 1 bad. It was the devil cursing inside my head. he was angry because i had given my life to God and no longer belong to him.

and i'll tell you something else here. whenever I do something like go witnessing, sharing the Good News of Salvation to others...the cursing comes back...but when i sit back and dont witness, the cursing goes away...

the devil will attack you when he is mad at you. one of his ways is blaspheming God in your mind.

There are many aspects to our personalities. When we do something stupid or thoughtless and we say to ourselves "how could I have done that?" We don't mean that the devil made us do it, but that a different aspect of our personality was acting... not the "master status" as they say in Sociology, but a minor status was prevelant. Erving Goffman said we act out our interactions, like actors on a stage, and we use props, costumes, settings and specific lines to impart an impression on those we interact with. Sometimes we get the part wrong, or flub a line, but we are always presenting ourselves in a way that reflects both our and other's expectations of ourselves.
Think about this satan thing for a minute... if you are filled with the holy spirit of God, how can unholy satan be present? If God has set you free, you are free indeed. As Glinda said to the wicked witch of the west... "begone, you have no power here."

 

[YourChild]

Think about this satan thing for a minute... if you are filled with the holy spirit of God, how can unholy satan be present? If God has set you free, you are free indeed. As Glinda said to the wicked witch of the west... "begone, you have no power here."

But wait a minute....dont sinful thoughts, such as sexual thoughts cross your mind for a split second and you cast them out each day? how come these thoughts keeps comming back to my mind when I have no intention of pondering on them?

yes God set me free. I was addicted to porn and masturbated almost every night. but now I have dont these urges anymore..God has definitely set me free. But my mind is still in battle. I must rebuke probably over 100 unwanted sinful thoughts a day. these are offers the devil is making ...trying to get me to accept what he has. KCDAD, have you ever walked up to a stranger and shared your faith with the person? and maybe perhaps after sharing your faith, lead the person into the sinners prayer and cried out to God in public, in front of the person you are witnessing to? try that sometimes and see what happens to your mind. you'll be encountering a storm of blaphemas voices.

when you attempt to win someone for Christ, you are upseting the devil very much. you become his target

 

[KCDAD]

But wait a minute....dont sinful thoughts, such as sexual thoughts cross your mind for a split second and you cast them out each day? how come these thoughts keeps comming back to my mind when I have no intention of pondering on them?

yes God set me free. I was addicted to porn and masturbated almost every night. but now I have dont these urges anymore..God has definitely set me free. But my mind is still in battle. I must rebuke probably over 100 unwanted sinful thoughts a day. these are offers the devil is making ...trying to get me to accept what he has. KCDAD, have you ever walked up to a stranger and shared your faith with the person? and maybe perhaps after sharing your faith, lead the person into the sinners prayer and cried out to God in public, in front of the person you are witnessing to? try that sometimes and see what happens to your mind. you'll be encountering a storm of blaphemas voices.

when you attempt to win someone for Christ, you are upseting the devil very much. you become his target

Your conscious mind is aware of only about a dozen or so thoughts while your unconscious mind is processing millions of stimuli each second... our ureges... our desires don't change... our Id is always working at the unconscious level, but our conscious mind is not always aware of it. Those thoughts are reflective of your desires... your impulses... but you control them with your conscious mind and super ego.

 

[Zeena]

Here is my question related to this topic: God knows exactly what it would take for me to believe in Him. God does not provide me this evidence. Why am I guilty and condemned to Hell?

Romans 9:14-33
14What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid.
15For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.
16So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.
17For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth.
18Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.
19Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?
20Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?
21Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?
22What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:
23And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,
24Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?
25As he saith also in Osee, I will call them my people, which were not my people; and her beloved, which was not beloved.
26And it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people; there shall they be called the children of the living God.
27Esaias also crieth concerning Israel, Though the number of the children of Israel be as the sand of the sea, a remnant shall be saved:
28For he will finish the work, and cut it short in righteousness: because a short work will the Lord make upon the earth.
29And as Esaias said before, Except the Lord of Sabaoth had left us a seed, we had been as Sodoma, and been made like unto Gomorrha.
30What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith.
31But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness.
32Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone; 33As it is written, Behold, I lay in Sion a stumblingstone and rock of offence: and whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.

Luke 12:49
"I have come to bring fire on the earth, and how I wish it were already kindled!

 

[Confess]

Guilty of what? There is no hell.

Since when does Methodist believe in this Jehovah Witness doctrine?

 

[KCDAD]

Since when does Methodist believe in this Jehovah Witness doctrine?

We Methodists are not lock step believers in any particular issue other than God's act of creation, the divine nature of Jesus and the power of The Holy Spirit. I happen to know that eternal fiery pit of torture hell is neither scriptural nor rational. It is pagan and used in The Bible as a metaphor for spiritual separation and guilt. There are more than just JWs that have bothered to learn about Gehenna, Tartarus and Hades.

 

[jesusfreak0791]

First of all people have strayed from the original question. Why dosen't God show himself? My answer to this question is He dosen't need to. All through out the Bible God showed Himself and people still didn't believe in Him. He even came to Earth in the form of a man and yet people still didn't believe in Him. I believe it goes along with what Abraham told the rich man in Luke 16:27-31, "Then he said, 'I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father's house: For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment.' Abraham saith unto him, 'They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.' And he said, 'Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent.' And he said unto him, 'If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.'" I believe this passage says alot about why God won't come at this present time. Because He's already given us His Word. We have all we need it's just a matter of faith. God will however return one day to judge the world and I believe that day is soon.

 

[Zeena]

I would define Faith as the ONLY Faithful One there is..

JESUS!

Hebrews 10:23
Let us hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering; (for he is faithful that promised )

Romans 12:3c
God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.

Unless you recieve His Faith, your faith will waiver..

 

[KCDAD]

huh? I can't have my own faith?