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Why does God create people knowing that they will go to Hell?

Discussion in 'General Theology' started by Leevo, Feb 17, 2017.

  1. Leevo

    Leevo Well-Known Member

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    This has always been puzzling to me. Why does He? I would prefer the answers to be from a non-Calvinistic perspective but I will take any I can get and consider them. The reason I say this is because I tend to hold a Molinist view of these things (predestination/election) but have never found a good answer from the Molinist/Arminian perspective.
     
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  2. AvgJoe

    AvgJoe Member since 2005 Supporter

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    A couple reasons come to mind. First, there is an incorrect assumption that goes along with this question, that God alone has created you. We are the product of choices made by your parents. Therefore, God has not predestined anyone to be born, so how can He be blamed for creating people that will go to hell? This is not to say that God is not involved at all in the creation of life, because He is. The Bible says that once a new human life is made God creates a spirit within the fetus and knows us at that point.

    There is also a logical problem with not creating the people who will wind up in hell. It would mean that no one would go to heaven. You see, without the crucifixion no one could be saved. But, in order for Jesus to be crucified, evil people had to lie about Him and murder Him. His crucifixion is the means by which we are saved. So, if God doesn't create people He knows will go to hell, then there would have been no crucifixion by which people could be saved. In that case, all people would go to hell. Therefore, if God was to not make anyone who would go to hell, then He would not make anyone at all.
     
  3. NothingIsImpossible

    NothingIsImpossible Well-Known Member

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    Well problem is we choose to go to hell. So to speak. He knows everything about us, even before we were born. BUT, we Jesus came down to earth for a reason. So where we go after we die depends on if you we accept Jesus into our hearts and our saved.

    I see God as knowing every possible outcome. Since every action we take sends us down various paths, some may lead to never becoming saved. Some may lead to becoming saved. Some may lead to becoming saved but then losing it (though thats another topic).

    Look at marriage. Many people believe in "God has the one for me to marry!". But its not the case. Again He knows everything. Depending on which route you take, He may have someone lined up for you on certain routes but not others. At least thats my view. I may be wrong. All I know is people are not born with only one path straight to hell in their future. God is not like that. Well... I guess to be fair we are born and will go to hell UNLESS we choose to become saved.

    None the less its up to us to make the choice. He can't force anyone to become saved.
     
  4. Leevo

    Leevo Well-Known Member

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    I see where you're going with this, and I think that it leads me to this question: Why did God create a world in which he foreknew Adam and Eve would eat of the fruit and cause sin to enter the world?
     
  5. JESUS=G.O.A.T

    JESUS=G.O.A.T Well-Known Member

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    This is a question that we can't answer tbh we can speculate which is what i'm about to do but yeah. We can't 100% know God, and this is a incredible question I never thought about before.


    1. God knows what we will do sure, he knows our future and those who will choose hell, but they choose hell is the point. He didn't program an individual to go to hell, just he is able to see the choices the individual will make and turns out one of his/her choices is hell.

    2. He creates people still because some will choose heaven, some still choose him.


    3. God is a God of choices as we see with his reaction to the fall. So he will not refuse to manifest someone simply becuase they don't please him, he allows them to make their choice.
     
  6. NothingIsImpossible

    NothingIsImpossible Well-Known Member

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    Why does He let babies die? Why does He seem to bless some but not others? Why am I still sick? Why doesn't He just show Himself?

    The list goes on and on honestly. There are lots of questions people have. But they aren't important really. It doesn't change the fact we are here currently and have choices to make. Somethings we will never know the answers for. He is all knowing, all powerful...etc. Who are we to question Someone whos 1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 times smarter then we are?

    Though technically with us, we were created and we had free will. He knew all the paths they would take. And even when they were tempted to go for the apple, He could not interfere because what would the point of free will be if He just forces people down a path He knows is best? Sadly they chose to bite the apple. Which meant He would have to do what He needed to course correct. Some events later and more free will later, He knew we were hell bound. And while He couldn't intervene as in forcing us to change, He sent Jesus down to give us a chance at salvation.

    So we still had our free will, but with a choice to become saved or not. You could say he indirectly intervened. Now when we look at your first question again the better response really is if He really didn't care about us, then He didn't have to send Jesus down to give us a choice. He could have just left us to go to hell. So again, its our choice.
     
  7. SgtBen

    SgtBen To Serve and Protect Supporter

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    God does create us through the acts of our parents, and we're all born with a soul.

    But we're given free agency, a mind, and a heart. We have choices in life. There have been many testimonies about folks who have traveled the wrong road in life, figured it out, found God, and turned their lives around. There are also those who don't. They are brought up in unfortunate circumstances and even the worst of criminals have often said, "I knew there was a God, but He didn't help me."

    That comes into free agency. Only the sickest of criminals deny God, and sometimes mental illness comes in and when the brain can't cope or compensate with drives and emotions, it can seem God condemns some to Hades.

    Some commit suicide as well. If you're born with a mental issue, cannot cope, there are warning signs. Every serial killer, every murderer, rapist, ALL displayed warning signs at one point or another of abberant behavior, whether torturing animals, uncontrolled anger, unreported spousal abuse, any uncivilized behavior, even shoplifting, vandalizing, stealing a car for no reason, drug activity -- the list goes on.

    That's why it's important we Christians watch. Be vigilant. If there is something amiss, report it to your local law enforcement agency. I know this for a fact; excercising our free agency in doing what's right could and does save lives.

    One of my parent's friends was alarmed their son had killed the family dog. Mom called us. I was called to the scene and it was appalling. I notified our detective and upon further investigation on his computer, we found he had fantasies of killing people. Even a well-set-up-plan for a neighbor he didn't like. That poor dog was just the beginning. The juvenile was arrested immediately before he could wreak any more harm.

    So we need to use our free agency to understand between right and wrong, and stop those who are mentally ill and please let us cops help.

    See it, hear it, feel it, report it. Yes we are our brother's keeper. And sometimes when people like this can be helped before it goes further, congratulations! You may have saved someone's life and I'm very grateful.

    Just my take on this.
     
  8. SgtBen

    SgtBen To Serve and Protect Supporter

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    My wife is sick and in the hospital. We are given the power of prayer and compassion, and God does not forsake us.

    Life isn't perfect, ever. But God is. The struggles we deal with can do one of two things: make us closer to God; or, make us forsake Him.

    Again, it comes back to free agency, which will we choose?

    No one ever told me life was perfect, and it isn't. I don't have all the answers but I can say there is power in faith and prayer.
     
  9. SkyWriting

    SkyWriting The Librarian Supporter

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    True love comes from the choice not to love.
    What (moral) enjoyment would one get from love slaves?
     
  10. Bluesh1ft

    Bluesh1ft Newbie

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    I doubt hell has a roller coaster that dumps you into a lava pit and has a big Horned buff Devil ruling the place.

    whatever punishment will come will be appropriate in accordance with a Holy God.

    Matthew 26:24 "The Son of Man goes as it is written of him, but woe to that man by whom the Son of Man is betrayed! It would have been better for that man if he had not been born.”

    Hmmm so not all Reprobate would be better off not being born? Hmmm maybe Gehenna is not as Hellinistic (pagan) as people think.
     
  11. Rick Otto

    Rick Otto The Dude Abides

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    [21] Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?
    [22] What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:
    [23] And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,
     
  12. PROPHECYKID

    PROPHECYKID Veteran Supporter

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    God prefers to create a world that he knows would fall, implement a plan to save all those who will accept his salvation, and dwell with his creation for eternity than to not create this world and extend his love towards all of us. Basically, its the same reason why many women decide to continue having a child when a couple weeks before delivery the doctor says the child will be deformed. They could decide to abort the child, but its because of love they decide to continue and bear the child and then create as best as they could a life for the child even though they know the child would be in for a tough time.
     
  13. AnticipateHisComing

    AnticipateHisComing Newbie Supporter

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    Because it was God's plan for Jesus to die since before creation. I once had a thread asking the question why did Jesus have to die? These questions are all related, why is there suffering in the world? For some reason God decided that we will learn/grow through suffering. This is the design of this world and Jesus is the patterned suffering servant. God could have chosen a different way to redeem sin in the world, but he chose suffering.

    Look to the words Paul recorded on the benefit of suffering.

    Romans 5:3 Not only so, but we also glory in our sufferings, because we know that suffering produces perseverance; 4 perseverance, character; and character, hope. 5 And hope does not put us to shame, because God’s love has been poured out into our hearts through the Holy Spirit, who has been given to us.

    6 You see, at just the right time, when we were still powerless, Christ died for the ungodly. 7 Very rarely will anyone die for a righteous person, though for a good person someone might possibly dare to die. 8 But
    God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.

    The purpose of this age is for the elect to learn of God's love, of which grace is his form of showing love. This requires sin/suffering. The next age will be the eternal/perfect time that we should all live for.

    For some reason, I think purely secular, the world has come to so look down on suffering as being so terrible, along with social injustice. Scripture teaches a different story. Look at the history of the NT church and see how God used suffering to the glory of the church. I am very put off by movements in different churches to promote social justice in the world. There will never be justice in this age. It was never designed for it.
     
  14. TheSeabass

    TheSeabass Well-Known Member

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    If God created only people He foreknew would be saved, then there would be a thread somewhere accusing God of being partial.

    Why Did God Create People—Knowing That Many Would Go to Hell?

    (I remember how on another forum awhile back Calvinists were taking the same position as the skeptics did in the above link.)

    Are humans evil for continuing to procreate, continue to bring children into this world generation after generation knowing a majority will eventually grow up and be evil, not choose God and be lost? If you are a parent and have children and they end up lost, does that make you unfair? evil?


    (I am not Arminian)
     
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2017
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