Why does god allow suffering to continue?

[AV1611VET]

[deleted]

 

[KCDAD]

4. Yes --- He determined even before the universe was created what course of action He would take.

Imagine deciding to create something and before you do, you realize, "darnnit, those creatures I am about to create are gonna mess everything up... oh, well, here goes anyway. If nothing else it will be entertaining to watch them all die."

 

[AV1611VET]

[deleted]

 

[KCDAD]

Maybe in YOUR universe, but not in mine.

Isn't that what you said? Before he even created, God knew what he was going to do about human sin and the fall from grace... which is pretty amazing since I am sure it didn't take God very long to go from idea of creation to "let there be light".

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Imagine deciding to create something and before you do, you realize, "darnnit, those creatures I am about to create are gonna mess everything up... oh, well, here goes anyway. If nothing else it will be entertaining to watch them all die."

Yeah..... we could have done without that pesky ole "Nacash".......

Genesis 3:1 And the nachash becomes crafty from all of life of the field which YHWH 'Elohiym made. And he is saying to the woman: "indeed! that 'Elohiym says 'not thou shall eat from any of tree of the garden'"?
2 And the woman is saying to the nachash: "from fruit of tree of the garden we are eating,
3 but from fruit of the tree which in midst of the garden 'Elohiym says 'not thou shall eat from him, and not you shall touch in him, lest thou shall die'".
4 And the nachash is saying to the woman: "not to die thou shall die.
5 That 'Elohiym knows that in a day you eat from him and they are opened, eyes of you, and you become as 'Elohiym, ones knowing good and evil".
6 And the woman is seeing that good the tree for food, and that yearning he to eyes, and to be coveted the tree to make intelligent. And she is taking from fruit of him, and she is eating, and moreover she is giving to her man with her and he is eating.
7 And they are opening eyes of both of them, and they are knowing that they are naked ones, and they are sewing leaf of fig tree, and they are making for themselves girdles.

 

[SolomonVII]

As a non Christian I have never understood why Christians can except that an all powerful god, that knows everything and can do anything would allow suffering to continue in the world when he could, should he choose, end it.

He knows its happening, he could prevent it, but he does not. What gives?

PS - in accordance with forum rules, please dont present any rational arguements in defence of Christianity as that would be applogetics, which are not allowed.

Well according to the Bible, God really did not want us to go this route at all. but once we chose to have knowledge of good and evil, we opened ourselves up to suffering. If there was no such thing as suffering , nothing would be either good or evil. It is only through suffering that morality becomes defined at all. All the sins of the world,rape stealing cheating, murder or whatever, just wouldn't be a problem if nobody suffered.

There is no knowledge of good and evil without knowledge of suffering. It is just that simple.

So that is the thing. If we want to know about good and evil, and apparently that choice has already been made for us, we are stuck with suffering.
As an act of mercy, we were all banished from eating of the tree of life after that though. It is a bad news, good news sort of deal. Bad news, its is going to hurt like crazy. The good news is, we die.

 

[chilehed]

As a non Christian I have never understood why Christians can except that an all powerful god, that knows everything and can do anything would allow suffering to continue in the world when he could, should he choose, end it.

He knows its happening, he could prevent it, but he does not. What gives?

You might as well ask "why doesn't God make a square circle, or a triangle with seven sides? He could do it, but he doesn't".

Actually, he couldn't do it because it's a logical contradiction. A circle (bear with me) by definition doesn't have corners, and a triangle by definition has three sides and not seven. Your statement that "God can do anything" isn't precisely correct, if by it you mean that he can do things that are mutually exclusive or contrary to his nature.

So what does that have to do with suffering?

It has to do with our nature and the origin of sin. It is in our nature to be able to freely accept or reject God, and suffering is one of the natural consequences of rejecting him. So to propose that we could reject God and yet not suffer is to propose a logical contradiction.

In the beginning God created Man in a state of perfect holiness in communion with him, and it was Man's nature to choose either to remain in that state or to reject it. Man chose to reject it, and so lost it and then was unable to pass it on to his descendants. And so now we live in a state in which we are, through the sin of Adam, deprived of the original holiness in which God intended us to live. This deprived state of existance is referred to as "original sin".

Suffering has a purpose, and it is a gift. If you put your hand in a fire, the pain lets you know that something is very wrong - it provides an impulse to get you to pull your hand out of the fire.

In the same way, suffering provides us with an impulse to turn to God so that we may be healed. It also provides us with an opportunity to minister to those who are suffering, by which we participate in the healing of the world by (1) allowing ourselves to be agents of God's grace and mercy which heals us as we minister to others, and (2) by being icons of the living God, thus helping those who suffering see the merciful and gracious God whom we all seek.

God's intent isn't merely for us to know stuff about him, it's for us to be transformed so that we can share in his divine life. Sharing in his life implies sharing in what he is and what he does - and so suffering can also be a participation in Christ's atoning work on the cross. "As the master works, so does the servant" - and as Christ suffered for us that which we could not bear, so it may be that he allows me to suffer somewhat of what someone else could not bear. Thanks be to God for granting me such an honor, if he chooses!

PS - in accordance with forum rules, please dont present any rational arguements in defence of Christianity as that would be applogetics, which are not allowed.

Not to seem like I'm quarreling with the rules, but it sounds like you're asking us to provide only those explanations that are not rational. That's not very reasonable.

 

[AV1611VET]

[deleted]

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Originally Posted by Ganymede PS - in accordance with forum rules, please dont present any rational arguements in defence of Christianity as that would be applogetics, which are not allowed.

What if we just post Scriptures then?

John 8:23 And He said to them, "Ye out of the below are, I out of the above am. Ye out of this, the world, are. I not am out of the world, this.
24 I said then to ye, that ye shall be dying in the sins of ye, for if-ever no ye should be believing that I am, ye shall be dying in the sins of ye.' [Deut 28:13]

 

[SolomonVII]

And the Trinity isn't?

No. It is just a different way of understanding God than what Muslims have.

 

[OldChurchGuy]

As a non Christian I have never understood why Christians can except that an all powerful god, that knows everything and can do anything would allow suffering to continue in the world when he could, should he choose, end it.

He knows its happening, he could prevent it, but he does not. What gives?

PS - in accordance with forum rules, please dont present any rational arguements in defence of Christianity as that would be applogetics, which are not allowed.

You have raised a question that theologians have wrestled with for thousands of years and, to the best of my knowledge, have not yet come up with a satisfactory answer that puts the question to rest once and for all.

For me, I have thought about the issue long and hard and was given some illumination from a book by J.B. Philips titled "Your God is Too Small". Essentially his argument is that when one is frustrated with God it is probably due to putting limits on God; hence the title.

Takin that a step further, at this point in my life I believe that suffering exists as a reminder that we as Christians have much left to do in fulfilling the two great commandments (love God and love your neighbor as yourself).

Can't prove that any of the above is correct but that is where I am right now.

Sincerely,

OldChurchGuy

 

[KCDAD]

And the Trinity isn't?

I think you just answered your own question. That is why the doctrine of the trinity is not possible... for you, me or God.

 

[AV1611VET]

[deleted]

 

[DerSchweik]

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