Why Does Calvinism Matter?

[Dedicated Mind]

I am having a hard time trying to determine how belief in predestination affects our christian practice and why calvinism is an issue of disunity in the body of christ. we are called to evangelize the world. sinners who are predestined will respond to the call. how is that different if the sinner uses freewill or not? can someone please explain why belief in predestination matters? is it just confidence in being an elect or something more? thanks for any comments.

 

[Calvinist Dark Lord]

I am having a hard time trying to determine how belief in predestination affects our christian practice and why calvinism is an issue of disunity in the body of christ. we are called to evangelize the world. sinners who are predestined will respond to the call. how is that different if the sinner uses freewill or not? can someone please explain why belief in predestination matters? is it just confidence in being an elect or something more? thanks for any comments.

Very simple: Predestination is true and we are told to preach the full council of God.

Secondarily: incorrect doctrine will always result in incorrect praxis if the reasoning is sound.

 

[Dedicated Mind]

Very simple: Predestination is true and we are told to preach the full council of God.

Secondarily: incorrect doctrine will always result in incorrect praxis if the reasoning is sound.

i don't see how praxis will be affected by belief in predestination, especially if there is no way of knowing if you are predestined or not. if anything, belief in election will loosen standards of ethical living instead of striving to be ethical. faith or confidence in salvation can be the same whether you believe in predestination or not.

 

[St_Worm2]

belief in election will loosen standards of ethical living instead of striving to be ethical.

Hi DM, first of all, you've asked some excellent questions, so thank you! I was going to start with the OP, but I'll try to answer this first ... or perhaps I should just let the Bible do that for me as I believe it speaks directly to your quoted statement above.

Here's what the Lord has to say through Paul in Ephesians 1:

"He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before Him." Ephesians 1:4
​

You said that "belief in election will loosen standards of ethical living", but God appears to have a different opinion of Divine Election, yes? Interestingly, this verse gives us BOTH the reason we were chosen and the result of that choosing, so let me turn your statement around a bit and see what you think.

How does it make you feel and how do you think you'll respond to knowing how incredibly important you are to God, knowing that, "before the foundation of the world", His intention was to bring you from spiritual death and from being His "enemy", to Glory and to being His eternally adopted child? Do you feel like running out and "living like Hell" now that you know what you know .. Or does this knowledge cause you to want to please Him and be more like Him in your daily living ..

Yours and His,
David

 

[Dedicated Mind]

Hi DM, first of all, you've asked some excellent questions, so thank you! I was going to start with the OP, but I'll try to answer this first ... or perhaps I should just let the Bible do that for me as I believe it speaks directly to your quoted statement above.

Here's what the Lord has to say through Paul in Ephesians 1:

"He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before Him." Ephesians 1:4
​

You said that "belief in election will loosen standards of ethical living", but God appears to have a different opinion of Divine Election, yes? Interestingly, this verse gives us BOTH the reason we were chosen and the result of that choosing, so let me turn your statement around a bit and see what you think.

How does it make you feel and how do you think you'll respond to knowing how incredibly important you are to God, knowing that, "before the foundation of the world", His intention was to bring you from spiritual death and from being His "enemy", to Glory and to being His eternally adopted child? Do you feel like running out and "living like Hell" now that you know what you know .. Or does this knowledge cause you to want to please Him and be more like Him in your daily living ..

Yours and His,
David

thank you for responding st worm. i am truly not trying to be difficult. i became interested in rt because i agree with total depravity and see salvation as a work of god. i just don't see how believing in predestination will affect christian living any differently from people who believe in free will. both will live moral lives, both will continue to witness, so what is the difference?

 

[Osage Bluestem]

thank you for responding st worm. i am truly not trying to be difficult. i became interested in rt because i agree with total depravity and see salvation as a work of god. i just don't see how believing in predestination will affect christian living any differently from people who believe in free will. both will live moral lives, both will continue to witness, so what is the difference?

The revelation of scripture is that God is sovereign and works all things according to the council of his will.

That is awesome to contemplate and God is glorified in the revelation of his power. Our faith in him is that He is good and that he works all things for his glory and for the good of his people, the church.

So, our purpose is to glorify God and enjoy him forever because he has been so good to give us such a purpose.

 

[JM]

if anything, belief in election will loosen standards of ethical living instead of striving to be ethical.

"The sanctification of the Spirit, is the work of grace on the heart, begun in regeneration, and carried on by the Spirit, until it is perfected by him; and this is necessary to salvation, for without holiness, even perfect holiness, no man shall see the Lord; and therefore it is fixed as a means of it, and is made as sure and certain by the decree of election, as the end, salvation itself; and, being fixed as a mean, in this decree, confirms what has been observed, that it cannot be the cause of it: and this proves that the doctrine of election can be no licentious doctrine, but a doctrine according to godliness; since it makes such sure provision for holiness, as well as for happiness. "Belief of the truth" may signify, not a bare belief of the Gospel, and the truths of it; for though they are to be believed by all the saved ones, yet this may be where neither election, nor calling, nor sanctification, ever take place; even in reprobates, and devils themselves: but faith in Christ, the Way, the Truth, and the Life; and believing in him with the heart, unto righteousness, and with which salvation is connected, and to which it is necessary, and is a mean of it; and which being fixed in the decree of election, as such is secured by it, and certainly follows upon it." Gill

I'll visit latter to post.

jm

 

[twin1954]

thank you for responding st worm. i am truly not trying to be difficult. i became interested in rt because i agree with total depravity and see salvation as a work of god. i just don't see how believing in predestination will affect christian living any differently from people who believe in free will. both will live moral lives, both will continue to witness, so what is the difference?

It makes a difference in many ways. It makes a difference in the Gospel that you preach. The Arminian free-will works religionist preaches a gospel that tries to get the sinner to do something on his own. It is focused on man and depends on the man preaching and his powers of persuasion.

The Gospel that we preach is totally different. We preach an accomplished salvation for a particular people called sinners. We preach a confident Gospel with absolute confidence that it will work for the purpose that God sends it. Our focus is not on man and his work but God in the God-Man our Savior the Lord Jesus Christ.

It makes a difference in how we worship as well. Our worship isn't focused on man and what he must do it is focused on the Triune God and what He has done in and By Christ. We worship God not man.

And it makes s difference in the God we preach. The Arminian preaches a god who wants, wishes and tries to save but can't unless man does something. It is a puny, pigmy god that is just like men. We preach a God who saves. A God who is an absolute Sovereign ruling all things to bring to pass His purpose. We preach a God who is God.

It will make a difference in how you read the Scriptures. The Arminian reads the Scriptures and finds something that he can do. The Calvinist reads the Scriptures and finds in them what God has done.

 

[JM]

A video I made using a Grace Gem audio about the practical purposes with the doctrine of predestination.

Practical Predestination - YouTube

I'm struggling right now with the idea that Arminians are my brother, Christians, believers...their ideas of God are so different from what I find in scripture.

jm

 

[singlecandle]

I was an Arminian for 24 years (and very much a Christian) but I was really struggling. Arminianism-and the charismatic movement-really teach you to be very introspective and when you fail, it is detrimental to you.

I really had never heard of what Calvinists teach.
People who oppose them don't tell you anything about Calvinism
or how completely they believe God saves.
When I discovered it, I was so amazed!

To do this day, though, when I meet Christians who validate Arminian
doctrine I really wonder, "How on earth do they not struggle with certain aspects of arminianism?"

Really astounds me.

 

[HereIStand]

If predestination and perseverance of the saints are understood as gifts, they can really be a blessing and an encouragement to faith. However, if they understood primarily from the standpoint of correcting a deficient theology, then they'll be of limited benefit to faith.

 

[DocNH]

Predestination and election are "decrees." Predestination and Foreknowledge: Are People Predestined to Heaven and Hell?

I am glad you are convinced of Total Depravity. The Scripture states that we are dead in trespasses and sin (Eph. 2:1-3). Mind us before Christ, we are blind, and cannot see the truth; we are deaf and cannot hear the calling of God; we are dumb and cannot speak forth the truth of God from the heart; we have withered hands and cannot reach out for the things of God; we are lame and do not walk in the Spirit; and since we are dead and continually decompsing, we really stink of sin.

Before Christ we have total inability to do anything righteous for the glory of God, etc. Paul writing on total inability says, "For the mind that is set on the flesh is hostile to God, for it does not submit to God's law; indeed, it cannot" (Rom. 8:7). Note our condition before Christ. We are: (1) hostile to God, (2) do not submit to God's law, and (3) cannot submit to the law of God. So, before Christ we are in a rut; we cannot deliver ourselves from sin.

However, the news gets even worse. God, as his law, is holy, just, and good (Rom. 7:12). Briefly stated, since God is holy he cannot condone sin in in his presence without judging it. He is angry with the wicked every day (Psa. 7:11). While he is patient (Rom.2:4), ultimately he must necessarily according to his divine nature judge sin and the sinner, fully. He will not continue to look at evil and wrong and traitors and remain silent (Hab. 1:13). He will execute his judgment upon all the earth.

So, we are in a straight betwixt two; we cannot deliver ourselves and God according to his divine nature cannot deliver us, as he must judge sinners. But ....

Enter predestination/election. Before our sin (Eph. 1:4), God elected us to his grace, mercy and to be his people, etc. Before our sin, God predestined Christ to go to the Cross to die in our place (1 Pet. 1:18-20: Acts 2:23-24: 4:27-28). God's holy and just wrath against his elect's sin was fully poured out upon his only begotten and sinless Son, Jesus Christ. God's wrath has been appeased for his elect (1 John 2:1; 4:10) and only his elect. Christ healed his people and now they see, hear, speak, reach out, and walk in the things God (albeit not perfectly,1 John 1:9; but they (1) are not hostile towards God; as they are his children, (2) they desire to fully and completely submit to God's law, and (3) can submit to God's law - see Rom. 8:7 and in glory they will do it perfectly, et. al.), as this is what they have been saved unto (Eph. 2:10; Tit. 2:14); to bring glory to the one who saved them. Since, we are no longer dead, but born again from the dead (1 Pet. 1:3), we no longer stink, but "... are the aroma of Christ to God among those who are being saved and among those who are perishing" (2 Cor. 2:15).

So, without Predestination there would be no salvation possible.

In addition, not only is the doctrine of P necessary for intial saving faith, it also assists in us in daily living. As others have said, God is sovereign in what happens - everything that happens - was/is "ordained" by him. A person understanding this will react differently to situations than a person who thinks otherwise concerning providence, etc. Knowing that God is sovereign, Joseph reacted differently towards his own brothers (Gen. 50:20). Some people when they do not understand predestination, providence, etc. will literally get mad at God when stuff happens - and stuff will happen to be sure. However, with a proper view of God being in control concerning everything - from the number of hairs on your head to the even the events of 9-11 - allows one not to get angry at God, but to realize that he is still and always will work things together for their good, et. al. You will become a more patient person, less "reactive" in sin (less fleshly responses) and more "active" in righteousness, etc. Peter's best friend was murdered on the Cross. Peter had emotions just like we do. How would you react towards the people that murdered your spouse, child, etc? What did Peter do? He preached a sermon on the sovereignty of God in the death of of his best friend (Acts 2:23-24).

Here is an example of how providence, etc. effected even the lineage of Christ: Does God Change His Mind?

The doctrine of predestination and providence impact every area of life and every other biblical doctrine. In essence it helps one make sense of life. Making sense of it all is a major part of living it pure before God.

It is a doctrine that very few understand as much as they should and most churches fall especially short in making the doctrine clear, et. al.

Have a blessed weekend.

 

[Apologetic_Warrior]

Hi DM,

Most Calvinists I've encountered at one time or another have struggled with the same issues you raise.

I am having a hard time trying to determine how belief in predestination affects our christian practice

Well, to be honest, you're looking at it from a practical or pragmatic point of view, and while there is value in doing that, it is not the test for truth. If God is truth (and He is), and the Scriptures are revelation from Him (and they are), should not we as His children be lovers and followers of the truth? Yes! The reason I put it this way is because beyond a shadow of doubt predestination is found in Scripture, and God would not have revealed it to us if He did not think it matters. Predestination is a part of a whole body of doctrine, and also reveals to us an order to salvation, and most importantly, it points us humbly to God, our savior. Predestination is God's view of salvation from eternity, and also lays a foundation whereby no person can boast.

and why calvinism is an issue of disunity in the body of christ.

To be fair, the same could be asked of any branch or denomination within Christianity. I encourage you to look for the answer in the history of the Church, especially Protestant Church history. A good starting point would be checking out the Canons of Dordt.

we are called to evangelize the world. sinners who are predestined will respond to the call.

I agree with the general Gospel call, and I agree only elect sinners will respond to the call, that is, the call is only effectual for the elect.

how is that different if the sinner uses freewill or not?

Since we agree on total depravity (I read most of the thread), and the value of truth (Christ himself said; "I am the way, the truth), then we should take serious the impact of this on the will, and indeed the whole being of a person. The difference is summed up in one Latin phrase "Soli Deo Gloria".

is it just confidence in being an elect or something more?

I wouldn't say predestination gives confidence, faith in Christ and comfort from the Holy Spirit give confidence, and most of all, knowing God does not lie, that He is a covenant keeper, that He is faithful to His promises. To close let me share with you a quote I came across the other day.


“Seek the truth
Listen to the truth
Teach the truth
Love the truth
Abide by the truth
And defend the truth
Unto death.”

JOHN HUS (1370-1415)

 

[singlecandle]

The foundation of total depravity was what convinced me of Calvinism. Growing up, I read Romans a lot and I knew instantly that this
was a Biblical doctrine. It helps to study ALL of Calvinism. In realizing the truth about total depravity the rest of the tenets of Calvinism unfold very clearly.

For me, I couldn't accept the possibility that saints persevere(like the SBC) without understanding Total Depravity, Unconditional Election, Limited Atonement, and Irresistible Grace.