Why Does Anyone Believe Mary Is In Heaven ?

[dan p]

Hi , and there are many people that believe has ascended into heaven ,'
But how do they get around John 3:13 ?

It reads " And no man had ascended up to heaven , but He that came down from heaven , even the Son of Man which nis in heaven >

Also , Gal 3:28 says that there is neither Male nor Female in the Body of Christ !

So , where is MARY today ?

Where is it found that MARY ascended to heaven ?

dan p

 

[concretecamper]

Hi , and there are many people that believe has ascended into heaven ,'
But how do they get around John 3:13 ?

It reads " And no man had ascended up to heaven , but He that came down from heaven , even the Son of Man which nis in heaven >

Also , Gal 3:28 says that there is neither Male nor Female in the Body of Christ !

So , where is MARY today ?

Where is it found that MARY ascended to heaven ?

dan p

Mary did not ascend anywhere. No one has that power but God. As for where she is, there is a thread on the assumption you can read.

 

[sonshine234]

Hi , and there are many people that believe has ascended into heaven ,'
But how do they get around John 3:13 ?

It reads " And no man had ascended up to heaven , but He that came down from heaven , even the Son of Man which nis in heaven >

Also , Gal 3:28 says that there is neither Male nor Female in the Body of Christ !

So , where is MARY today ?

Where is it found that MARY ascended to heaven ?

dan p

Than you may have a problem with that Elijah ascended in a Chariot. Concretecamper is right Mary did not ascend, you know a lot of false things but not many truths

 

[dan p]

Than you may have a problem with that Elijah ascended in a Chariot. Concretecamper is right Mary did not ascend, you know a lot of false things but not many truths

Hi , and did the Thief on the cross , go up to heaven ?

No !!

Jesus said he would be with Him in Paradise ?

The bible says where Paradise is , where Jesus went after His Crucifixion , and that was not heaven !

Maybe , if you can , explain Gal 3:28 , show the false things that you see ?

dan p

 

[sonshine234]

When you learn something than get back to me, right now your being silly.

 

[Rhamiel]

you do know that Elijah was taken up into heaven right?

 

[pshun2404]

John 3:13 speaks to people before Christ's death, burial and resurrection...no one was in heaven because all were in sheol/hades...after Christ's death, burial, and resurrection believers sins are remissed and we are able to enter into the presence of God...this is why Paul says, to be absent from the body IS TO BE present with the Lord (see Revelations 7 for example)...Mary died after the Christ events at the cross and after the resurrection and was filled with the Spirit (born from above) at Pentecost with the rest of the 120. Therefore (having nothing whatsoever to do with the legend of the assumption of Mary), she is present with the Lord (and where is He?)....nuf said

Paul

 

[GreekOrthodox]

Where was Moses when Jesus was talking to him and Elijah during the Transfiguration?

 

[Bob Carabbio]

"Why Does Anyone Believe Mary Is In Heaven ?"

Because Mary (Jesus' Mom) was apparently a Christian, and now she's physically DEAD.

And when a Christian gets physically DEAD - Heaven is the place they go. There isn't any other place for 'em.

SO - obviously Mary is "In Heaven" - been there for millennia along with all the believers who have passed on.

Catholic "Tradition" attaches some "Religious Baggage" to all that, of course, and tries to make Mary something she's not - but the simple fact is that "Heaven" isn't a "Goal" - it's a "Destination". If you're saved and you DIE then you have to go there, there isn't any other place for a Christian to go.

SImple as that.

 

[KNOWLEDGE BOMB]

John 3:13 speaks to people before Christ's death, burial and resurrection...no one was in heaven because all were in sheol/hades...after Christ's death, burial, and resurrection believers sins are remissed and we are able to enter into the presence of God...this is why Paul says, to be absent from the body IS TO BE present with the Lord (see Revelations 7 for example)...Mary died after the Christ events at the cross and after the resurrection and was filled with the Spirit (born from above) at Pentecost with the rest of the 120. Therefore (having nothing whatsoever to do with the legend of the assumption of Mary), she is present with the Lord (and where is He?)....nuf said

Paul

1. Ahhh but were NOT absent from the body until in the twinkle of an eye our bodies are changed from corruptable to incorruptable.... This happens at Christ coming....
2. Believers sins were remissed at shedding of His blood and not death or ressurection.... There is No remission of sins without the blood - Alone

 

[KNOWLEDGE BOMB]

Question: if scripture did in fact teach that we slept and did not go to heaven until Christ comes who here would change their beliefs?


When Paul says in 2 thes 1:7 to Wait with them until Jesus is revealed from heaven
is Paul still waiting for all eyes to see Jesus coming on the clouds (rev1:7) or is he wrong and in heaven?

 

[ViaCrucis]

The fundamental problem with the doctrine of "soul sleep" is that no where does Scripture teach "soul sleep".

Scripture does, however, make some other assumptions:

That the dead go to She'ol, the common realm of the dead. That's about the earliest life-after-death view we find in Scripture.

By Jesus' time She'ol was understood to be in two parts, Gehenna and Paradise; the abodes of the wicked and righteous dead respectively. When the Lord turns to the thief and says, "You will be with Me in Paradise" He isn't referring to "Heaven", but that the thief would be found counted among the righteous in Paradise, Abraham's Bosom.

But the New Testament also hints at something else: That between death and resurrection we are in God's presence where Christ is, that is "in Heaven". The clearest picture (though it shouldn't be taken overly literally) is probably found in the Apocalypse, where the souls of the martyrs are shown in Heaven petitioning that God vindicate them.

The "soul" isn't asleep, unaware, unconscious (etc) but conscious and aware, with God.

That's obviously not the eschatological thrust of Scripture, the future resurrection of the body is. But the point remains that there is something between the death of the body and the resurrection of the body, and it's not non-existence, but real existence.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[KNOWLEDGE BOMB]

Than you may have a problem with that Elijah ascended in a Chariot. Concretecamper is right Mary did not ascend, you know a lot of false things but not many truths

John 3:13 has nothing to do with elijah because if it did it would make this verse incorrect .....
It's all to show Christ deity.... That he came out of heaven

nicodemus didn't understand the teaching of being born again and if he couldn't understand this earthly teaching (from OT) how would he understand Godly heavenly things

no born again - no holy spirit - no understand heavenly things

Jesus is teaching him in verse 15 it only takes belief (grace thru Faith) for everlasting life...


Which slaps belief in anyother teaching on salvation than Eph 2:8

 

[KNOWLEDGE BOMB]

The fundamental problem with the doctrine of "soul sleep" is that no where does Scripture teach "soul sleep".

Scripture does, however, make some other assumptions:

That the dead go to She'ol, the common realm of the dead. That's about the earliest life-after-death view we find in Scripture.

By Jesus' time She'ol was understood to be in two parts, Gehenna and Paradise; the abodes of the wicked and righteous dead respectively. When the Lord turns to the thief and says, "You will be with Me in Paradise" He isn't referring to "Heaven", but that the thief would be found counted among the righteous in Paradise, Abraham's Bosom.

But the New Testament also hints at something else: That between death and resurrection we are in God's presence where Christ is, that is "in Heaven". The clearest picture (though it shouldn't be taken overly literally) is probably found in the Apocalypse, where the souls of the martyrs are shown in Heaven petitioning that God vindicate them.

The "soul" isn't asleep, unaware, unconscious (etc) but conscious and aware, with God.




That's obviously not the eschatological thrust of Scripture, the future resurrection of the body is. But the point remains that there is something between the death of the body and the resurrection of the body, and it's not non-existence, but real existence.

-CryptoLutheran

Are you ready to admit your wrong if it does?

 

[KNOWLEDGE BOMB]

The fundamental problem with the doctrine of "soul sleep" is that no where does Scripture teach "soul sleep".

Scripture does, however, make some other assumptions:

That the dead go to She'ol, the common realm of the dead. That's about the earliest life-after-death view we find in Scripture.

By Jesus' time She'ol was understood to be in two parts, Gehenna and Paradise; the abodes of the wicked and righteous dead respectively. When the Lord turns to the thief and says, "You will be with Me in Paradise" He isn't referring to "Heaven", but that the thief would be found counted among the righteous in Paradise, Abraham's Bosom.

But the New Testament also hints at something else: That between death and resurrection we are in God's presence where Christ is, that is "in Heaven". The clearest picture (though it shouldn't be taken overly literally) is probably found in the Apocalypse, where the souls of the martyrs are shown in Heaven petitioning that God vindicate them.

The "soul" isn't asleep, unaware, unconscious (etc) but conscious and aware, with God.




That's obviously not the eschatological thrust of Scripture, the future resurrection of the body is. But the point remains that there is something between the death of the body and the resurrection of the body, and it's not non-existence, but real existence.

-CryptoLutheran

Are you ready to admit your wrong if it does? Will you stop teaching that there is no soul sleep if it does? Will you come out here with a OP and say scripture teaches soul sleep if it does? You know put your money where your post is?

 

[ViaCrucis]

Are you ready to admit your wrong if it does?

I sincerely doubt you're going to bring up proof texts that I've never seen before. But, sure, I'll humor you.

But if anything is quoted from Ecclesiastes as a proof text, or various statements like, "the dead know nothing", then I can safely conclude that it's going to be old hat.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[KNOWLEDGE BOMB]

Ok we will see if you go by scripture look for the post on soul sleep


Btw you never did answer why Paul teaches to wait with them until Christ is revealed from heaven which hasn't happened yet so Paul says he waits and you say


No he's in heaven? It's always easy to belittle things but never as easy to answer to them....

 

[KNOWLEDGE BOMB]

But if anything is quoted from Ecclesiastes as a proof text, or various statements like, "the dead know nothing", then I can safely conclude that it's going to be old hat.



KNOWLEDGE BOMB replies:

I wouldn't feel safe then

 

[KNOWLEDGE BOMB]

Via let me ask you this...

Scripture teaches were not to have Any images of anything in heaven
Paul tells us that it's a shame for a man to have long hair... Jesus would Not have long hair making him a shame..


And being Catholics are famous for both - now that I've told you the above truth will you then go and tell other Catholics it's wrong to have such things?


If not then what would it matter if I come up with scripture on soul sleep

you won't accept it.... Am I wrong

 

[ViaCrucis]

Ok we will see if you go by scripture look for the post on soul sleep


Btw you never did answer why Paul teaches to wait with them until Christ is revealed from heaven which hasn't happened yet so Paul says he waits and you say


No he's in heaven? It's always easy to belittle things but never as easy to answer to them....

You mean this passage?

"This is evidence of the righteous judgement of God, that you may be considered worthy of the kingdom of God, for which you are also suffering--since indeed God considers it just to repay with affliction those who afflict you, and to grant relief to you who are afflicted as well as to us, when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with His mighty angels in flaming fire, inflicting vengeance on those who do not know God and on those who do not receive the gospel of our Lord Jesus." 2 Thessalonians 1:5-8

Perhaps you could point out to me what this has to do with "soul sleep".

Oh, I see, you're going by the King Jame's rendering of anesis in verse 7 as "rest" and interpreting it as soul sleep. Except that's not the meaning here, anesis is relief, it's to be at ease. Paul is speaking about the relief, the rest, that will come when their (the Thessalonians) tribulations are put to an end and they are vindicated by the coming of the Lord Jesus on the Day He comes to judge the quick and the dead.

We will be put at ease, we will have a rest to our troubles on that Day when He sets to right all this world's wrongs, when He repays the wicked for their wickedness, and sets all things aright.

-CryptoLutheran