Why do you think some people do not believe in God?

[UTVols345]

Just wondering. I've seen some people who are just so adamant about not believing. So I'm curious as to what drives that thought?

 

[eachallberg]

Peace,
maybe because they were taught not to.

 

[wayfaring man]

Well there can be many reasons I suppose...most of them likely tied to the many bad things people have done in the "name of God".

I asked The Lord why that was, and what came to mind is - that the worse the act the further people reach for justification, and since God is the Highest, He gets used for the worst.

Other than that, people expect that if God was real, He would have intervened by now with the Oh so many bad things that have happened...

But that is easily explained by Him being longsuffering, and on a vastly different "time schedule", than we are...

Also, if God is real, then we have an Ultimate Authority to answer to...and some folks find that unpleasant to believe...and so they try/choose not to...

To me God is the only logical explanation for such an intricate and finely balanced creation.

To say this all happened without a Supremely Intelligent Superpower is preposterous !

wm

 

[ShiningBecky]

My general experience is the hypocrisy in Christians lives. Like, they will say not to sleep around, yet they do it. Or they will say that others are to be loving, but they treat people like dirt.

Of course, there are sects of Christianity that outright teach God makes some people not to believe so He can send them to hell. How that is fair is... well, pretty silly to be honest. No wonder why people don't want to worship such a god. I wouldn't either!

 

[BondiHarry]

There are those who deny the existence of God because they know what they do is evil and it is a hateful thing to them to consider that there is a just and holy God who judges and punishes evil.

There are those who love the lusts of the flesh and are willing to take their chances that this life is all there is.

There is Satan who is ever ready to block the truth of God lest men come to know the truth and come to repentence. The evil that 'Christians' do and have done throughout history is an example of this. What better way to drive men away from God than to smear His reputation so Satan has corrupted many a 'Christian' church by doing his angel of light routine so its members do evil 'in the name of God' ignoring Jesus words that He doesn't even know them as they are workers of iniquity.

Most atheists are atheists because they were not fed with religious beliefs when they were young. Others have left religion because they don't think there's no good reason to believe in it. The supernatural has not been proven to exist, so until then, there is no reason to believe in it.

How is that fair? Innocent people experience great suffering. If god existed as a merciful god he would then understand that we experience time differently; and act accordingly.

What would you have God do, eliminate all evil doers so the innocent do not suffer? I am of the opinion that when people think along this line they are thinking about rapists, murderers, thieves and the like but with God you would have to throw in the fornicators, sodomites, liars, the thieves who deny their thievery is theft, idolators etc. God is patient with the evil that men do because He knows that some men will yet come to Him if He holds off His judgment and wrath ... and acts accordingly.

Providing a gift like a microwave to an indigenous people in the Amazonas might make them think you´re a god. But they would be wrong to assume that the microwave was made by a god

Did mankind create itself? Did the world? Did the sun? Did the microwave? We know who made the microwave (it didn't just happen by luck) yet so many want to believe far more complicated things do not have a creator and DID just happen by luck.

Likewise, in time, we will understand the universe better and it will seem less miraculous.

IF Jesus doesn't come first (and personally I suspect we may be in the last generation) or, more likely from the atheist's perspective, mankind doesn't destroy itself first. You also assume man has sufficient IQ to understand the universe or at least understand it better but I assure you, the IQ of the one who created the universe makes our own IQ seem like that of the village idiot. This may be one reason why God didn't try to explain how He did what He did in the creation just as He doesn't try to explain His own existence ... the former and certainly the latter may be far beyond our understanding.

I don't think many non-believers fear that they´re accountable to some god. Certainly not the judeo-christian god because the bible is self-contradicting; i.e. "thou shall not kill", but its ok to kill homosexuals according to the old testament; and the old testament says that god is unchanging. This is not something that the new testament disputes.

The sins that led to a stoning death back in the day of the law of Moses still lead to death today but instead of stoning it will be death by another means (probably the lake of fire). The 'self-contradiction' you cite is no contradiction BTW. The commandment is 'thou shalt not murder' and God has warned us that the wages of sin is death so it is wrong to equate murder (the unjust taking of life) with God's just taking of life.

 

[day time]

I think it's easy to forget that believing that God exists is one thing, believing IN God (like trusting God, trusting God's intentions, motives, etc) is another.

Many a person has bowed down and trusted/followed entities and/or people they believed had their best interests in mind. Sometimes this has worked in their favor, sometimes not. Just because Hitler exists, doesn't mean we should "believe in him".

One way to examine whether to trust the one you are following and/or "believing in" is to see if they are making threats against you and your loved ones. We teach this to children all the time.

 

[Fiona01]

One of the biggest comments I come across from non-believers?

"There can't be a God, or He would not let us suffer in this world!"

I always turn to Christ, and His violent death on the crucifixion. When I think things are going bad, I think - God's only loved Son was not excempt from tasting pain and undergoing suffering, why would I, or you, or we?

There is also another common argument - "There is no proof He exists!" (This one really gets me - it's all around us if you open your eyes!!!!)
There is no proof He does not exist either. You can't prove a negative, either way.
Yet you only have to open your eyes to see He has left his fingerprints all over this world - and the people in it!

IN MY EYES, ATHEISM TAKES A BIGGER STEP IN FAITH TO UN-BELIEF, THAN I DO AS A CHRISTIAN!

Earlier somebody said who created God?
Nobody, because He is eternal. It is only US who exist in time and space, God exists outside of it. He has always been.

All you need to do is think this: Nothing comes from Nothing. This world, all the things in it, all the beautifully designed aspects of life - and the fact this world can even support life at all!- point to an intelligent designer.

Do you know for this world to be inhabitable the WAY it is, for it to have existed at all, for it to have condition for life to thrive and for us to be here the way we are now, is like throwing a dart in the sky and landing it on a bulls-eye on a dart board on the other side of the galaxy? It is THAT improbable that we are all here because one day, NOTHING caused matter to form the way it has, and then LIFE randomly began, and then the world was so perfect WE could live here.

God's work is all around us. Pointing to evil - and many sufferings of the world - is often the handprints of us, human beings.

 

[Fiona01]

Okay I'll quote myself here from above;

Earlier somebody said who created God?
Nobody, because He is eternal. It is only US who exist in time and space, God exists outside of it. He has always been.

All you need to do is think this: Nothing comes from Nothing. This world, all the things in it, all the beautifully designed aspects of life - and the fact this world can even support life at all!- point to an intelligent designer.

Do you know for this world to be inhabitable the WAY it is, for it to have existed at all, for it to have condition for life to thrive and for us to be here the way we are now, is like throwing a dart in the sky and landing it on a bulls-eye on a dart board on the other side of the galaxy? It is THAT improbable that we are all here because one day, NOTHING caused matter to form the way it has, and then LIFE randomly began, and then the world was so perfect WE could live here.

God's work is all around us. Pointing to evil - and many sufferings of the world - is often the handprints of us, human beings.

Whatever has a beginning has a cause, that's pretty much an undeniable truth, most people don't reject that as a truth either. The world is no different. Something cannot come from nothing. That means whether this world was created in six days, or from a big bang many years back - how did NOTHING create this?

 

[Humble Pie]

Times change.

 

[Fiona01]

Our species has existed for at least around 100 000 years and for much of that time few people lived beyond the age of 30 and suffered a lot. But some 2000 years ago god decides that now is the time to intervene and do something?! Weird.

If God wanted to intervene, as He has done, He could have picked anytime, surely? Whether 2000 years ago, or 20 years ago. Selecting a time to come, is selecting a time to come. It is no more weird for it to be then, than it would be now.

When I said "nothing comes from nothing," you said:

Life did not randomly begin. The right conditions were there, and then life slowly evolved over billions of years.

Back in the beginning, and I mean way, way, way back, how do ANY conditions exist when there should be nothing? I mean, if there is nothing, there is no God, no life, the world or space as we know it does not exist, there is just void - how do even the right conditions suddenly come into being?

There had to be SOMETHING to create this world. To begin it. Push it into life.

You believe that the universe has no explanation. That to me gives a great amount of faith that one day, at the beginning of time, there was nothing, and now we have this.

Some people would say "It's like a lottery - this world or another like it was BOUND to end up existing at some point in time" but the CHANCES this world exists the WAY it does, to promote life, human life, the air we breathe, the perfect design of things - it points to a creator.

Your lottery theory of "it had to happen" is like saying you have a lottery machine full of 100 billion white balls, and one black, and someone who is blind-folded can place their hand in that huge machine and keep pulling out the black one. Again. And again. And again. Would you not think that was something amazing? Impossible, even? Well that's how random it is that life formed in the way it has for us here.

 

[Quasicentennial]

Before I accepted Jesus at 17 years old, my mind was stuck in puzzle mode, always questioning the weird actions of our Christian God, especially the generation-to-generation punishment curse since Adam and Eve couldn't prevent themselves from tasting God's delicious forbidden fruit that made God wipe out most of the human race by flooding the whole planet. Even that global flood didn't work because Satan's spiritual disease called sin has continued to deceive humans into centuries of non-Christian action. So Jesus sets foot on Earth to get his disciples to follow his Christian mission by watching him demonstrate his supernatural magic power of healing the poor and sick. Jesus dies on the cross and spiritually travels to heaven and leaves no evidence of his travel luggage behind on Earth - or video camera evidence of his healing magic show with the poor and sick. Had Jesus set foot first time in the modern television age then nobody would argue about the existence of God and the son of God, Jesus Christ because all the evidence of Christ can be seen and heard on televison worldwide, especially the real appearance of God and Satan in the flesh.
I wanted to accept Christ because of my lifetime mission just like other Christians, to spread the gospel around the world, even electronically through the internet. If non-Christians are desperate to know all the answers to their millions of questions since Jesus left Earth then I believe they would be answered supernaturally - downloaded instantly - with our future new minds of Christ. No waiting in long queues in front of Christ's heavenly mansion or business meeting room because the supernatural technology that exists in God's most massive and most modern place of community: the Kingdom Of God is beyond our normal brain functioning activity. I can imagine how Satan can be so desperate in wanting God's supernatural power - our God who knows our future destiny including Satan's future destiny, so that Satan can turn back the clock to prevent the coming of our victorious Jesus in the future to defeat Satan and to delete the power of sin from our Christian eternal lives, as we socialize together in peace and harmony so that Christ's supernatural joy will keep our hearts so very positive and our faces very keeping on smiling - if that makes sense.:*:.

 

[Fiona01]

Rubisco is a very simple enzyme, which in part explains why animal life could start to evolve..I'm asking for better examples of "perfect design".The origin of the universe is of course unknown still. But "god" is a deeply unsatisfying answer..

You mention rubisco as an enzyme that triggers life for animals. Then where does the enzyme come from? I'm not trying to be picky here, or make loop holes, but my belief does not come under fire from that, or anything else that exists. It's the fact that these things, whether enzymes, or anything else, that alllowed this world and life to begin as we know it.

If I walked into my bedroom and saw a huge red glowing stick in the air, I wouldn't think "Well, that's weird that it got there, but whatever, it's probably something that somehow grew in my room, and it could just have easily appeared in my bathroom," and leave it at that. I can't do that with the issue of our world existing, either. It IS there. It didn't HAVE to be there. Something Put it there, (or started it.)

There is the issue of fine-tuning, too. I'm no scientist, but I have read about fine-tuning. Fine-tuning talks about how everything that had to be the way it was (for this world to exist today as it does), had to be so specific, so constant and narrow that if things were different even by less than a centimetre, we would not be here. This world would be void. Now, fine-tuning, and the world being here the way it is today, is either down to chance (I go back to my firing a dart across the universe and hitting bulls-eye analogy) or it is design. To me, the design makes perfect sense.

Quasicentennial - Thank you for sharing your testimony and belief here.

 

[Living in the Light]

I think many do not believe because the idea of God requires a conversion, a change, a repentence. Many like the seductiveness of sinful activities and know that they will have to clean up their act if they become believers. It's a matter of a change of heart. What such people do not realize, is that coming to God/Christ makes for a better life. Sinful and evil activities do nothing but destroy.

 

[Fiona01]

Well, it's hard to talk about and study a world you describe that we haven't seen, nor know exist, although many assume there must be others like ours on the other side. Although for another world to exist like ours, it would still require fine-tuning, an amazing collection of things present to make it exist - STILL not ruling out a designer. There is no proof the universe is infinite and full of other worlds like ours though....! Since we cannot observe space beyond the limitations of light no one can say how large the universe is (or indeed, how small!)

God could very well create and give life to other worlds and realms so that they are not randomly ordered at all, but I don't believe that....even if there are other planets like ours, they are likely not life-permitting with the vibrant life and design we have here. That fine-tuning would be unlikely to happen twice, given how ultimately RARE it is that this all exists at all and happened in the first place! There seems so much purpose here. It's that rarity that helps me believe in a creator, an intelligent mind behind it all.

In my eyes, this world existing, and the fine-tuning of it, either has to exist either by a) neccesity (that the world HAS to be life-permitting) b) chance or c) design. I personally rule out neccessity, as nothing of this world HAD to BE. I rule out chance, because this world existing by random accident is asking too much faith of me, so I adopt C, that there is a being who being outside of time and space, created this world.

Livinginthelight - Thanks for that comment, I agree with you totally. I think having a relationship with God, and having a faith, requires an open heart and conversion. I doubt conversion will come from debating points back and fourth as I have done here... it's a matter largely of the heart, isn't it? For even if someone was to accept this world was created, that doesn't mean somebody would take the next step to love or serve the Lord.

 

[day time]

Whatever has a beginning has a cause, that's pretty much an undeniable truth, most people don't reject that as a truth either. The world is no different. Something cannot come from nothing. That means whether this world was created in six days, or from a big bang many years back - how did NOTHING create this?

This convo will end up in general theology at this rate I imagine :~) .... but lol ....

The "first cause" ... even if there *is* something responsible for a first cause (or a pre first cause), we cannot prove that it is responsible for it because of our own position within causality. At this time, we could only take an entity's "word" for it. So it's still a matter of "faith".

But it's faith in an initial Creator .... a Creator at the beginning. How do you know that Creator is still around and not dead lol ? Talking about the past, is talking about a Creator who *did something back then* .... possibly, based on faith. Even if the Creator showed up today and took responsibility, you (a generic you) would still take them at their word because for all you know the FSM created the Creator.

How would you show someone here, today, what you believe God is doing today that would be relevant to them when they are asking for evidence ?

 

[Fiona01]

Who/what made the designer? The simplest explanation is often the best and most likely explanation.

Nobody made/created the designer. He is an uncaused being. You could go on forever arguing that - who made God? A greater being than God? Then who made THAT greater being? It goes on and on. There is no before Him - He exists outside of time and space. If God exists (which I obviously think He does) then he is an uncaused being... the one who MADE space and time as we know it!

It is generally accepted that things exist either through cause or neccessity. Neccessity implies that something just HAS to exist, it HAS to be there. Cause implies it does not need to be there, but was created/caused by something, I.E, something or someone has produced them so they exist.

To me, then, logically, God doesn't have a cause (or creator) he is the neccessary being doing the creating. Everyone will accept that God doesn't have a creator - that ananology could go on forever.

Thinking of the universe, of what it is - all space time and matter and reality. It follows that if there is a creator, He is outside of space and time, and is a non-physical being.

Day-Time - Sorry if I was diving this conversation into a general theology slant, I was getting into things to try to prove my reasoning lol. And you are right - it IS a matter of faith. I don't think truth of spirituality and God will come from debates alone, so much of it is from the heart and how receptive we are. It can also come from just laying our doubts and questions to God, and seeing how He answers. I know I've had fantastic answers to prayers in my own moments of crisis, problems and doubt.

 

[Jupiter Drops]

Everyone's a bit different.

People who don't believe in God don't know God personally. They either think He's non-existent or He does exist but they should just do their own thing. Both are wrong. Unfortunately people who don't know God don't really know His grace, love, and the joy and lessons that we experience every day as Christians. We are quite privileged to know His Majesty who is our Father, our First Love.

G.K Chesterton once said, If there were no God, there would be no Atheists. There's that.

 

[Fiona01]

If there were no God, there would be no Atheists. There's that.

How amazing! Perfectly worded. I agree with you too - I do think it takes somebody to be receptive and to come to see God on a personal level, rather than a remote, impersonal being to be studied and understood.

 

[day time]

Day-Time - Sorry if I was diving this conversation into a general theology slant, I was getting into things to try to prove my reasoning lol.

Oh I didn't care ... I was saying that hoping to keep the thread from being booted to another corner :~)

And you are right - it IS a matter of faith. I don't think truth of spirituality and God will come from debates alone, so much of it is from the heart and how receptive we are. It can also come from just laying our doubts and questions to God, and seeing how He answers. I know I've had fantastic answers to prayers in my own moments of crisis, problems and doubt.

So to the bolded part .... can you give a personal example of what you think is the strongest evidence you've *experienced* that you prayed to God and God responded in a way that would seem to leave little room for doubt as to whether or not God or something "supernatural" was behind it ? Or maybe to show an extreme ... referencing your post below, was there a time where you did view God as merely a distant, impersonal being to be studied or contemplated as an idea and so can relate to that ... and then after seeking perhaps something amazing happened in response that seems to have no other explanation ? If you don't wanna share, no worries of course ...

 

[omanid]

Why do you think some people do not believe in God?

He went on to say, "This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless the Father has enabled him."
John 6:65

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