Why Do You Reject God?

[Girder of Loins]

So why do you? What rational thoughts, or scientific breakthroughs, or personal experiences have taken God and thrown Him out the window of existence?

 

[Seriyan]

There is no technical or anecdotal evidence that strictly disproves the existence of God. Then again, there's nothing to prove it, either.

 

[Paradoxum]

So why do you? What rational thoughts, or scientific breakthroughs, or personal experiences have taken God and thrown Him out the window of existence?

I'll be a bit vague as I wouldn't wish to cause anyone else any doubt.

First I'll just say that I was once a strong Christian (for a teenager) and that I have seen and heard of my fair share of apparent miracles and felt what I would have called religious experience. I loved God and have cried in worship on Him a number of times. It was only after 3 years I slowly became agnostic.

Well I don't think any of the traditional arguments for God's existence are any good. They are either plain wrong or nothing more than speculation.

I have rational problems with the idea of an afterlife.

The world is cold and harsh.

Placebo and coincidence can explain alot of things.

There's probably no soul.

It's not all negative though. I'm still not sure what I think about the resurrection and it may come to pass as I get older and more experienced that I might return to my God.

 

[Peterhill160]

I know I will return to God whatever happens, I think people are frightened by the fact that He may exist and that they won't get forgiveness so therefore they'll banish Him from their minds.

 

[Girder of Loins]

I have rational problems with the idea of an afterlife.

This is why I started this thread. What do you think is rationally wrong with the afterlife?

The world is cold and harsh.

The presence of evil proves the presence of good. But where did this division come from?

Placebo and coincidence can explain alot of things.

Dried mustard could explain a lot of things, but does it explain things well?

There's probably no soul.

Unverifiable, so probably not going to debate that one.

It's not all negative though. I'm still not sure what I think about the resurrection and it may come to pass as I get older and more experienced that I might return to my God.

Who knows, maybe I can get you back with your God sooner rather than later.

 

[Paradoxum]

This is why I started this thread. What do you think is rationally wrong with the afterlife?

In very short form, humans are essentially beings that live in space and time, so it seems to make little sense to think of any individual existing in a timeless heaven. Living for eternity seems far too long though. Not because of boredom, but just because it is without end. Even though we don't like the idea of death, isn't there something sweet in a last goodbye, an end to the story, a last stand, rather than repeating oneself for eternity.

The presence of evil proves the presence of good. But where did this division come from?

Well if there is no God it would seem there isn't any real evil. From the point of view of Christianity though, it would seem to be a problem.

Dried mustard could explain a lot of things, but does it explain things well?

It would seem so (not the dried mustard XD).

Unverifiable, so probably not going to debate that one.

Ok

Who knows, maybe I can get you back with your God sooner rather than later.

Well I'm an emotional and instinctual person, so even if God could be rationally proven I might not be emotionally ready.

 

[JDoc]

In very short form, humans are essentially beings that live in space and time, so it seems to make little sense to think of any individual existing in a timeless heaven. Living for eternity seems far too long though. Not because of boredom, but just because it is without end. Even though we don't like the idea of death, isn't there something sweet in a last goodbye, an end to the story, a last stand, rather than repeating oneself for eternity.



Well if there is no God it would seem there isn't any real evil. From the point of view of Christianity though, it would seem to be a problem.



It would seem so (not the dried mustard XD).




Ok



Well I'm an emotional and instinctual person, so even if God could be rationally proven I might not be emotionally ready.

Just some questions not related with the topic.
1 - Why do you quote this signature if you are an agnostic?
2 - You told the world is cold and harsh.
If you say this the majority of the brazilians,they will not agree with you.
I didn´t understand the world is cold ,if this mean what I´m thinking ,Brazil has an amazing environment and clime,and here is far to be cold.
But I agree that some countries are cold.
If I understand cold as depressive,I disagree , because for me the world is exciting and has a lot of wonderful things.And where I live the people really loves to live.For example,here we have amazing beaches,mountains,river,forests,waterfall and so on.
And probably there are many other countries as beautiful as mine and each country has it's beauties.
We have some problems like many others:like crimes,corruption,prostitution,stealers...,but the evil exists because we have free arbitrium.
But the people here generally are happy,solidary,gentile and sometimes extremely happy even with this problems...That´s where the good defeats the evil.

I´m seeing your picture and I think you are very dark...LoL

 

[Paradoxum]

Just some questions not related with the topic.
1 - Why do you quote this signature if you are an agnostic?

I think it is poignant, important and interesting quote. Sadly I think it reflects the true reality. I am agnostic because I don't know if God exists, he may do, but I doubt it.

2 - You told the world is cold and harsh.
If you say this the majority of the brazilians,they will not agree with you.
I didn´t understand the world is cold ,if this mean what I´m thinking ,Brazil has an amazing environment and clime,and here is far to be cold.
But I agree that some countries are cold.
If I understand cold as depressive,I disagree , because for me the world is exciting and has a lot of wonderful things.And where I live the people really loves to live.For example,here we have amazing beaches,mountains,river,forests,waterfall and so on.
And probably there are many other countries as beautiful as mine and each country has it's beauties.
We have some problems like many others:like crimes,corruption,prostitution,stealers...,but the evil exists because we have free arbitrium.
But the people here generally are happy,solidary,gentile and sometimes extremely happy even with this problems...That´s where the good defeats the evil.

I don't mean that the physical world has a cold temperature. Just like darkness can be used to represent evil, coldness can be used to represent an unthinking brutally consistent machine. Humans can show warmth, (compassion), but the world never shows compassion (cold indifference).

I´m seeing your picture and I think you are very dark...LoL

You think my picture makes me seem like a dark person? I'm not generally dark, but I can be when I consider the lack of God.

 

[Girder of Loins]

In very short form, humans are essentially beings that live in space and time, so it seems to make little sense to think of any individual existing in a timeless heaven. Living for eternity seems far too long though. Not because of boredom, but just because it is without end. Even though we don't like the idea of death, isn't there something sweet in a last goodbye, an end to the story, a last stand, rather than repeating oneself for eternity.

True that we are in space-time, but God is metaphysical, so He is not in space-time. So Heaven is not actually infinite. It has no time(at least not like our time). Therefore, it isn't really infinity. It is infinity relative to our time.

Well if there is no God it would seem there isn't any real evil. From the point of view of Christianity though, it would seem to be a problem.

I made a thread aboot this. Here it is.

http://www.christianforums.com/t7606059/

It would seem so (not the dried mustard XD).

I'm not to sure what placebo and that stuff refers to. Like actual placebo?

Well I'm an emotional and instinctual person, so even if God could be rationally proven I might not be emotionally ready.

I get that. I'm just hoping I can get some emotion in here as well!

 

[WhereIsReligion]

I don't know. I can't claim there is or isn't one because that is arrogant. We do not know. I don't believe because I find it unlikely/no reason for a god.

 

[Bordamere]

So why do you? What rational thoughts, or scientific breakthroughs, or personal experiences have taken God and thrown Him out the window of existence?

I object to the way that you phrased the statement because it makes it sound like we started in a position with god and threw him away instead of starting form a position where we believed in nothing. I think you can agree that when we pop out of the womb we are free of belief? So we start form a default position, and the one making the claim away from that position have to provide sufficient evidence as to way a change form default must be made. Since there is no way to prove either way that God exists or not, the burden of proof falls with those who claim he does. That is my first reason.

The best way I can describe my second reason is that I don't believe in any deity because I haven't been given any reason with enough backing to spend some the finite* amount of time that there is in my life working towards pleasing. I therefore save time with my non belief and free up mental capacity to deal with problems that I am much more confident exist (e.g. how do we stop population growth?, What moral system should I use?).

You can tell me that there is plenty of reason, that I will get eternal life in heaven and I'll be saved from a damnation in hell, but all of those are empty threats and empty promises unless there is a decent probability of it being the truth. This is what is lacking.

It doesn't matter how I "feel" about the situation, nor any personal experiences I've hard. Personal emotions have no effect on the state of reality. In the way that I see things, there wasn't even anything to throw out of the window of existence in the first place.

 

[Girder of Loins]

I object to the way that you phrased the statement because it makes it sound like we started in a position with god and threw him away instead of starting form a position where we believed in nothing. I think you can agree that when we pop out of the womb we are free of belief? So we start form a default position, and the one making the claim away from that position have to provide sufficient evidence as to way a change form default must be made. Since there is no way to prove either way that God exists or not, the burden of proof falls with those who claim he does. That is my first reason.

The best way I can describe my second reason is that I don't believe in any deity because I haven't been given any reason with enough backing to spend some the finite* amount of time that there is in my life working towards pleasing. I therefore save time with my non belief and free up mental capacity to deal with problems that I am much more confident exist (e.g. how do we stop population growth?, What moral system should I use?).

You can tell me that there is plenty of reason, that I will get eternal life in heaven and I'll be saved from a damnation in hell, but all of those are empty threats and empty promises unless there is a decent probability of it being the truth. This is what is lacking.

It doesn't matter how I "feel" about the situation, nor any personal experiences I've hard. Personal emotions have no effect on the state of reality. In the way that I see things, there wasn't even anything to throw out of the window of existence in the first place.

Yeah, this is why I started it. I didn't come from the view you all were Christians or knew of God, but I just wanted to know why you don't believe. I hope someone will come along who can show you that God is worth following with your finite time!

 

[LuisEmanuel]

I don't know. I can't claim there is or isn't one because that is arrogant. We do not know. I don't believe because I find it unlikely/no reason for a god.

Romans 1:20 - For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse.

The bible states that God is clearly seen, His presence so obvious that we are all without excuse.

Don't you find waking up in the morning and open your eyes to the sun light a miracle in itself? The fact that you are breathing and self-conscious? The fact that nature and all it's vegetation seem to exist only for satisfing our hunger? Don't you just feel the Light of God each time you help someone selflessly and feel the presence of evil when you are bullied, robbed on the street or seeing serial killers on the news? Why does the universe need life? And why does the universe need itself? Does Saturn care if the human race is wipped out from earth or does Jupiter care if the Sun stops shining? The universe doesn't need us, yet we, down to our very own cells and smallest bacteria fight for survival like it's the only important thing, the thing that has been written down on us by our maker so that His will might be done, and His will is for us to live.

 

[Seriyan]

What exactly about God's presence is obvious?

 

[Exial]

The default position is agnostic athiesm, I was just never converted to theism.

I was taught stories from the bible, sang songs during assemblies and such at junior school but never took them seriously. To me they were just mythical tales, just rather boring ones. I remember they gave us little red bibles one morning but I specifically remember taunting gods book (junior school immaturity shining through) by calling him out asking him to "smite me oh great smiter" and throwing his book in the bin.

Fairly suprised and unerved now as an adult just to how seriously some people take this religion business.

 

[Paradoxum]

The default position is agnostic athiesm, I was just never converted to theism.

I was taught stories from the bible, sang songs during assemblies and such at junior school but never took them seriously. To me they were just mythical tales, just rather boring ones. I remember they gave us little red bibles one morning but I specifically remember taunting gods book (junior school immaturity shining through) by calling him out asking him to "smite me oh great smiter" and throwing his book in the bin.

Fairly suprised and unerved now as an adult just to how seriously some people take this religion business.

It makes complete sense if you have been religious before. There is something powerful in the belief.

 

[Exial]

It makes complete sense if you have been religious before. There is something powerful in the belief.

I don't doubt that.

Question is,

Which faith inspires the most powerful beleifs?

 

[Paradoxum]

Which faith inspires the most powerful beleifs?

I'm not sure what you mean.

 

[WhereIsReligion]

Romans 1:20 - For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse.

The bible states that God is clearly seen, His presence so obvious that we are all without excuse.

Don't you find waking up in the morning and open your eyes to the sun light a miracle in itself? The fact that you are breathing and self-conscious? The fact that nature and all it's vegetation seem to exist only for satisfing our hunger? Don't you just feel the Light of God each time you help someone selflessly and feel the presence of evil when you are bullied, robbed on the street or seeing serial killers on the news? Why does the universe need life? And why does the universe need itself? Does Saturn care if the human race is wipped out from earth or does Jupiter care if the Sun stops shining? The universe doesn't need us, yet we, down to our very own cells and smallest bacteria fight for survival like it's the only important thing, the thing that has been written down on us by our maker so that His will might be done, and His will is for us to live.

The bible also says to kill your neighbor if he works on the Sabbath, women to be silent in church, unruly children to be stoned, beaten slaves to not me avenged if they are okay in a day or two,rapist to marry the women they rape, etc, etc.
The sun is a big sphere of gasses.
Vegetation doesn't just serve us it is a living life form not only to satisfy us but to provide oxygen etc.
I'm breathing because of reproduction.
When I help someone I feel good because I made someone feel good. I feel bad because my emotions/brain perceive something to be bad.
The universe doesn't NEED life or itself.Saturn doesn't isn't conscious. Our cells fight for self preservation, to pass on genes and reproduce.
I don't believe in duality. i.e. there is no bad effect/good effect only effects, no cold and hot just temperatures.

 

[Girder of Loins]

I was taught stories from the bible, sang songs during assemblies and such at junior school but never took them seriously. To me they were just mythical tales, just rather boring ones.

I think you would find it interesting that almost every single biblical event has been accounted for in archaeological digs, and are far from "mythical". Neither are they boring(a little subjective, but let me explain). There is stuff in the Bible people would pay to see in a movie, romance, betrayal, violence, cliffhangers, humor, etc... How is any of that broing? A giant's head gets cut off and a guy carries it around for a day, another guy is so fat that when a sword is plunged into his gut his belly swallows it! How is this boring!?

"smite me oh great smiter"

Funny movie! Hahaha...

Fairly suprised and unerved now as an adult just to how seriously some people take this religion business.

I'm fairly surprised an intelligent and rational human has been tricked into believing intelligence came from un-intelligence and rationality from chaos. I'm surprised how seriously people take atheism.