• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

Why do you have to believe in the trinity to be saved?

Status
Not open for further replies.

tulipbee

Worker of the Hive
Apr 27, 2006
2,835
297
✟25,849.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
Please elaborate more.
Like the red copper pan. The advertisment shows you can drop an egg in the pan and cook it and it easily slides out. If you really cook the egg, it sticks to the great nonstick pan. Arminianism is like that . Man advertise if they can, they ought. Free will don't exist nor the truly non stick pan. It really takes butter or oil or grace to keep it from sticking. The ad looks good just to get your money. Man free will fad looks good to get your money.
 
Upvote 0

Four Angels Standing

2Peter 1:21 Cry Out For Wisdom Grace Heals
Apr 18, 2016
846
483
Dallas
✟26,005.00
Gender
Female
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Others
Thank you for explaining further.
Interesting point. Especially considering the scriptures that refer to God's predestination of all things for his glory. Predestination, preordained, his knowing us before the womb.

Something to think about.
 
Upvote 0

Razare

God gave me a throne
Nov 20, 2014
1,051
394
✟25,847.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
Trinity isn't required to be saved, you're right just Romans 10 will do the trick.

The problem with not understanding the trinity by faith is that you'll get your Christianity confused to some degree, whether minor or major.

As a believer in the trinity, it is hard to believe in. This is normal when you get into true doctrine. Difficulty to believe something is actually a good sign you are believing correctly what scripture says. If you feel like other ideas pull you one direction or another strongly, then that's really the flesh and the devil which opposes God's word, rather than promote / uphold it.

Granted, this isn't universal, but it is certainly a core theme of true Biblical doctrine. The trinity falls into this camp.

I can defend the trinity intellectually and from scripture, but I wont guarantee another person will understand what I am saying. So I largely don't bother unless someone who believes in the trinity wants additional study on it. Just recently, I learned an additional concept which I had never realized before, and I'm still meditating on it.

Why is there a baptism in the name of Jesus Christ, and a baptism in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit? But you have to answer it from scripture, not from doctrine. I may have learned why, but I want to meditate on it a good while longer to be sure.

But certainly, there is the trinity and the trinity is God, and they are 1, just as it outlines in Genesis 1, where it lists all 3 components of God.

And this should not be alien to us, for we are Body, Soul and Spirit just as it says in Thessalonians. Therefore, us being made in God's image are comprised of 3 parts. God then too, must have 3 parts for us to be made in his image. Wonderfully, he does have 3 parts, Spirit, Soul, and Body just like us Christians do! Christ is his body, and his body is married to the church, making us 1 flesh. His spirit is the Holy Spirit, and his will and emotions are the Father.
 
Upvote 0

BornAgainChristian1

Well-Known Member
Mar 29, 2016
1,202
321
71
South Eastern Pa.
✟26,630.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Anabaptist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Constitution
The fact is I'm one of many that are here rebuking you only proves you really are clueless about the Triune God.
 
Upvote 0

BornAgainChristian1

Well-Known Member
Mar 29, 2016
1,202
321
71
South Eastern Pa.
✟26,630.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Anabaptist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Constitution
Actually I added nothing but what any intelligent person knows that scripture is in fact all about.
 
Upvote 0

BornAgainChristian1

Well-Known Member
Mar 29, 2016
1,202
321
71
South Eastern Pa.
✟26,630.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Anabaptist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Constitution
There were three separate persons in God present as the scripture states. You do comprehend the number three don't you?

1 John 5:7 For there are three that bear witness in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit: and these three are one.
 
Upvote 0

BornAgainChristian1

Well-Known Member
Mar 29, 2016
1,202
321
71
South Eastern Pa.
✟26,630.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Anabaptist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Constitution
BTW you never answered my question......are you a mormon, unitarian or something on those lines?
 
Upvote 0

BornAgainChristian1

Well-Known Member
Mar 29, 2016
1,202
321
71
South Eastern Pa.
✟26,630.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Anabaptist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Constitution
What you've shown here is that you had a conversation with yourself and nothing that you mentioned did I ever say anything about. The fact is this conversation originates by you and through you and the argument is on you. Perhaps you can show me where I bought any of the nonsense you're arguing about? I have one last question for you why is it ok for you to continually to make unfounded "interpretations" and when confronted you turn around and accuse others of doing the exact thing you're doing?
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

nothead

Regular Member
Oct 15, 2013
1,250
40
✟24,335.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married

You are saying that God is a Mystery and most of us started there. Trinity RATHER made God not only more confusing but against what He said about Himself. Notice I did not say what THEY said about THEMSELVES.


Bible studies on Trinity don't excite me too much. Thanks for not yapping on and on about it.


Since Matthew 28:19 was an INSERT and from that time forward they did either/or. Any more questions?

But certainly, there is the trinity and the trinity is God, and they are 1, just as it outlines in Genesis 1, where it lists all 3 components of God.

What makes you say this is certain? The DEITY of Jesus is not certain. WHY is this not certain? Certainly Jesus SAID he was God correct? Now you know WHERE JisG goes off the deep end.


And an egg is shell yolk and white. And water is ice, liquid and vapor. And water is H two and Oh. Oh my oh me these analogies are a BALM to my soul. I could write a SONG about God being an EGG for instance. God MUST have 3 parts alrighty. Now just find THIS in scripture and maybe just maybe you have a CASE.
 
Upvote 0

nothead

Regular Member
Oct 15, 2013
1,250
40
✟24,335.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married

If I knew a unitarian hymn I would sing it for you. Battle of the Hymns and we would win, since we have the TRUTH behind us. No brag just fact. I have a song entitled this just for you, sir.
 
Upvote 0

nothead

Regular Member
Oct 15, 2013
1,250
40
✟24,335.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married

God is a spirit and not a dove? BRILLIANT and I'm glad we can agree on some things. But the Spirit OF God in the genitive is God's spirit. He owns and operates IT, sir.
 
Upvote 0

Hoghead1

Well-Known Member
Oct 27, 2015
4,911
741
78
✟8,968.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Protestant
Marital Status
Married


As I pointed out to you before, there are about 100 passages in Scripture that speak of God changing, such as Gen. 6:6, Hosea 11:8. As do all classical theists, you write these off as mere figures of speech that have nothing to do with the actual nature of God. How convenient. Any passage of Scripture that doesn't square with your model of God is just a mere figure of speech, "baby talk" (Calvin's term). Quarrel if you mist with teh anthropomorphic imagery of Scripture as a concession to our intellect's, still, at a minimum, these mean God is subject to changing affective e states analogous to pleasure and displeasure, on ourselves. Indeed, if they don't describe the actual nature of God, they reveal nothing and so are worthless. So I insist your understanding of God as passionless and immutable is completely contrary to Scripture. And there are other serious problems here. Anselm contends that because God is without any emotion, God is also without compassion. Aquinas makes the same point, insisting that unlike human lobe, God's love entails no empathy or sympathy. But love without compassion is really no love at all.
The rest of your post did not address any of teh issues I brought up. The "original" is always the definitive one. Suppose some major conductor came along, was going to conduct the LA Phil. in a performance of 5 Beethoven, and decided what the symphony really needed was a big, ripping sax sole right in the middle of the first movement. Suppose the work was performed with such. What would the audience think? Well, I know that would be the last time that conductor conducted anything but maybe a streetcar. Same thing holds for later additions to Scripture. They are automatically corruptions, no matter how profound you may think they are. What about Conservapedia? It's chairman thinks that certain passages should be removed from the Bible because they are too liberal. He feels divinely inspired to do so. Well, would you encourage this kind of tampering?
 
Upvote 0

BornAgainChristian1

Well-Known Member
Mar 29, 2016
1,202
321
71
South Eastern Pa.
✟26,630.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Anabaptist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Constitution
God is a spirit and not a dove? BRILLIANT and I'm glad we can agree on some things. But the Spirit OF God in the genitive is God's spirit. He owns and operates IT, sir.
Missed that word "like" a dove did you?
 
Upvote 0

Hoghead1

Well-Known Member
Oct 27, 2015
4,911
741
78
✟8,968.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Protestant
Marital Status
Married

Classical theism is the doctrine that God is wholly immutable, which is exactly what the early fathers argued for. and what is expressed in the above quote.
 
Upvote 0

Razare

God gave me a throne
Nov 20, 2014
1,051
394
✟25,847.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
You are saying that God is a Mystery and most of us started there. Trinity RATHER made God not only more confusing but against what He said about Himself. Notice I did not say what THEY said about THEMSELVES.

Could you explain the science behind how God raised Jesus from the dead?

Where the supernatural intersects the natural realm, and how God changed the atoms quantitatively in his body to bring him back to life? Or how God stopped the sun for that day in Joshua, the day like no other?

Personally, I can't.

This is the nature of the trinity. I can say "trinity" just like I can say, "Jesus was raised from the dead" and in either instance I'm discussing something I am woefully ignorant of but believe.

If you haven't come across this in all of scripture, you haven't paid attention.

Job 38 -
16 “Have you explored the springs from which the seas come?
Have you explored their depths?
17 Do you know where the gates of death are located?
Have you seen the gates of utter gloom?
18 Do you realize the extent of the earth?
Tell me about it if you know!
19 “Where does light come from,
and where does darkness go?
20 Can you take each to its home?
Do you know how to get there?
21 But of course you know all this!
For you were born before it was all created,
and you are so very experienced!


And if God does teach us one of the steps of raising Christ from the dead by revelation of wisdom, then what it does is just create more mystery of God to unlock, not less. When I learn from God, I learn more and more what I don't know, not checking off things to eventually know it all.

We should think of God's truth like a chart, each node having multiple rays off of it to another nodes, going on forever. Learning 1 truth, means there are several more to learn, and the more you learn, the more there is to know.

So I know quite a bit about the trinity, and in knowing this much I have a larger amount I fail to know.

What makes you say this is certain? The DEITY of Jesus is not certain. WHY is this not certain? Certainly Jesus SAID he was God correct? Now you know WHERE JisG goes off the deep end.

What makes you say the resurrection of Christ is certain?

It's the same concept, learned by different revelation. We receive the revelation of the resurrection upon acceptance of salvation. Likewise is the revelation of God in 3 and 3 as one. I think even the word "trinity" fails to capture what it is, so I prefer not addressing it that way, but for simplicity sake it works. It's a word which poorly approximates something which can only be known through Christ by spiritual revelation, not intellectual.

And yet spiritual revelation works according to logic, and God's word believed in faith, so it is not ambiguous or ill-defined. It is concrete knowledge of God, sufficient to stand for eternity, move mountains, and build our lives upon and bear fruit of God.

Yet if a person has not learned it, I can't say this is a terrible thing like some. There are other revelations in scripture. I personally think there are many more important than understanding the trinity.


The difference is I pulled the analogy directly from scripture. I did not pull it from just the world at large. We would have no reason to apply the analogy unless scripture told us to.

Then God said, "Let us make mankind in our image, in our likeness - Genesis 1:26

Then in Thessalonians, scripture defines what a man is, and what his likeness is.

May your whole spirit, soul and body be kept blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. - 1 Thessalonians 5:23

God has a spirit, soul, and body, or something very much like these. If scripture says it, I generally believe it.
 
Upvote 0

BornAgainChristian1

Well-Known Member
Mar 29, 2016
1,202
321
71
South Eastern Pa.
✟26,630.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Anabaptist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Constitution
I was agreeing about the "dove" part. You missed that didn't you? I miss you too. Haven't beaned your bean for a few days.
Nobody stated the Holy Spirit was a dove so why bring it up?
 
Upvote 0

Hoghead1

Well-Known Member
Oct 27, 2015
4,911
741
78
✟8,968.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Protestant
Marital Status
Married
There were three separate persons in God present as the scripture states. You do comprehend the number three don't you?

1 John 5:7 For there are three that bear witness in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit: and these three are one.
You are seriously misquoting teh passage. IT reads, "In fact, there are three witnesses, the Spirit, the water, and the blood and they are in agreement." The passage says nothing as to whether they are Deity or not.
 
Upvote 0

nothead

Regular Member
Oct 15, 2013
1,250
40
✟24,335.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Could you explain the science behind how God raised Jesus from the dead?

No.

Where the supernatural intersects the natural realm, and how God changed the atoms quantitatively in his body to bring him back to life? Or how God stopped the sun for that day in Joshua, the day like no other?

I am not explaining how God COULDN'T be a man. He MIGHT have been one temporarily as a wrestler of Jacob or one of the Three men who ate with Abraham. But in these stories HE never became a THEY sir. Your Trinity IS a they, them, us our and We sir.

Personally, I can't.

This is the nature of the trinity. I can say "trinity" just like I can say, "Jesus was raised from the dead" and in either instance I'm discussing something I am woefully ignorant of but believe.

Why do you believe it sir? Three heads are better than one? Three WHO are God are better than one who IS God? Jesus is SO good he must be God? What?


He was talking to JESUS sir? Did Job KNOW he was talking to Jesus sir? Please tell me. Inquiring minds want to know.


Why does the DEITY of Jesus seem so important to you? God any ideas?

We should think of God's truth like a chart, each node having multiple rays off of it to another nodes, going on forever. Learning 1 truth, means there are several more to learn, and the more you learn, the more there is to know.

No, the more you learn the microscopically LESS there is to know. You just found out the SCOPE of all you don't know. You know?

So I know quite a bit about the trinity, and in knowing this much I have a larger amount I fail to know.

You say this at the same time you say AT START Trinity is a Mystery. Make up your mind, sir. Mystery or Knowing a lot of? Or knowing how MUCH a mystery is trinity? Or knowing NOTHING but knowing you know nothing about trinity? Which is it, sir?



What makes you say the resurrection of Christ is certain?

Who said it was sir? I think it might be 100% certain TO GOD sir. And only 99.99% certain to me sir. God any other wise sayings sir?



How about God is ONE, sir? This is what God COMMANDED you to know sir. AND made the GREAT COMMAND sir.


I can make a lot of apples if I know trinity. Brilliant sir. Johnny Appleseed incarnate.

Yet if a person has not learned it, I can't say this is a terrible thing like some. There are other revelations in scripture. I personally think there are many more important than understanding the trinity.

Me too. Heresy really ain't such a good thing, sir.




What makes you think God is speaking unto HIMselfs sir?

Then in Thessalonians, scripture defines what a man is, and what his likeness is.

May your whole spirit, soul and body be kept blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. - 1 Thessalonians 5:23

If scripture says it, I generally believe it.

But God is NOT a man that He should lie, or the SON of man that He should repent. Analogize God BY man and be warned this is sometimes MOST uncomely.
 
Upvote 0

Hoghead1

Well-Known Member
Oct 27, 2015
4,911
741
78
✟8,968.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Protestant
Marital Status
Married
Thank you for explaining further.
Interesting point. Especially considering the scriptures that refer to God's predestination of all things for his glory. Predestination, preordained, his knowing us before the womb.

Something to think about.

I don't think predestination is truly biblical and I don't think it makes any sense. If God predetermined everything what we do, which is what predestination claims, then we have absolutely no freedom. God decided all our decisions for us. But if we have freedom, the we must decide for ourselves; God cannot decide for us. Therefore, the future is open-ended, indeterminate, until we decide. Therefore, God did not plan it al l out ahead of time and God knows the future as it is in its own nature: open-ended, the realm of possibilities, not decided matters of fact. Also, I don't think predestination is truly biblical. There are biblical passages that definitely and clearly speak of the future as "iffy" for God, as in Jer. 18 and the case of Sodom.
 
Upvote 0
Status
Not open for further replies.