Why do you feel a NEED for theistic evolution?

jJIM THINNSEN said:

MY "IDEA OF CHRISTIANITY" IS THE SAME ONE THAT HAS LASTED FOR 2000 YEARS AND IS BASED ON GODS WORD..

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Your new doctrine of YE creationism is no older than the 20th century. You are right in saying doctrines will not save. Theology does not save. A heart that loves God and loves one's fellow man will save.

Shall we get back to evolution, now?

jJIM THINNSEN said:

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↑
YOU DONT GET TO DECIDE WHO IS SAVED AND WHO ISNT..

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But God does. And one's opinion of evolution is not one of the things that matter.

THEN WHY WOULD YOU WRITE SOMETHING LIKE THIS?

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(Even if you're a YE creationist, you can still be saved )

Because it's true. Even if you reject the way God creates living things, it won't necessarily cost you your salvation.

YOU ARE CONTRADICTING YOURSELF AGAIN!

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Nope. That's consistent with everything you've learned here so far.

The Barbarian said:

I have had "faith only" people tell me that if they have faith,then works will follow. And that's a good answer, too.

But Jesus clearly says your works will determine where you spend eternity.

And God says: James 2:24 Do you see that by works a man is justified; and not by faith only?

What say we get back to evolution, now?

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"I have had "faith only" people tell me that if they have faith,then works will follow. And that's a good answer, too."

FAITH BY ITSELF IS WORTHLESS..
IT IS ABOUT A RELATIONSHIP WITH GOD IN SPIRIT AND IN TRUTH NOT RULES OR REGULATIONS... IF THERE IS A RELATIONSHIP THEN THE FRUIT OF THE SPIRIT (WORKS) WILL INDEED FOLLOW AS A NATURAL CONSEQUENCE..

New King James Version
Faith Without Works Is Dead
14 What does it profit, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can faith save him? 15 If a brother or sister is naked and destitute of daily food, 16 and one of you says to them, “Depart in peace, be warmed and filled,” but you do not give them the things which are needed for the body, what does it profit? 17 Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.

18 But someone will say, “You have faith, and I have works.” Show me your faith without your works, and I will show you my faith by my works. 19 You believe that there is one God. You do well. Even the demons believe—and tremble! 20 But do you want to know, O foolish man, that faith without works is dead? 21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar? 22 Do you see that faith was working together with his works, and by works faith was made perfect? 23 And the Scripture was fulfilled which says, “Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.” And he was called the friend of God. 24 You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only.

25 Likewise, was not Rahab the harlot also justified by works when she received the messengers and sent them out another way?

26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

jJIM THINNSEN said:

FAITH BY ITSELF IS WORTHLESS..

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Yes. Faith without works is dead.

IT IS ABOUT A RELATIONSHIP WITH GOD IN SPIRIT AND IN TRUTH NOT RULES OR REGULATIONS...

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I believe you are right.

IF THERE IS A RELATIONSHIP THEN THE FRUIT OF THE SPIRIT (WORKS) WILL INDEED FOLLOW AS A NATURAL CONSEQUENCE..

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I think so. As Jesus said, everything hangs on two commandments. Love God and love your neighbor as yourself.

The Barbarian said:

But God does. And one's opinion of evolution is not one of the things that matter.



(Even if you're a YE creationist, you can still be saved )

Because it's true. Even if you reject the way God creates living things, it won't necessarily cost you your salvation.



Nope. That's consistent with everything you've learned here so far.

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"Because it's true. Even if you reject the way God creates living things, it won't necessarily cost you your salvation."

YES.. EVEN IF YOU REJECT THE WAY THAT GOD CREATED EVERYTHING TO BRING FORTH AFTER THEIR KIND (WHAT IS OBSERVED) RIGHT FROM THE START IN EXCHANGE FOR THE DEVILS LIE OF EVOLUTIONISM... IT HAS NO BEARING ON YOUR SALVATION.... BUT NOT BECOMMING BORN AGAIN OF THE SPIRIT LIKE JESUS COMMANDED HIS FOLLOWERS TO DO (CHRISTIANS) WILL INDEED COST SOMEONE GODS SALVATION.. BUT STRANGELY, I HAVE NEVER MET A PERSON WHO WILL PUBLICLY STATE THAT THEY HAVE BEEN BORN AGAIN OF THE SPIRIT AND HAVE BECOME A NEW CREATURE... WHO ALSO BELIEVES IN SATANS LIE OF EVOLUTION.... SURELY THAT ISNT A COINCIDENCE.... IM NOT SAYING THAT SUCH A PERSON DOESN'T EXIST, JUST THAT I HAVE NEVER MET ONE AND THEY WOULD SURELY BE RARE AS HEN'S TEETH..

Because it's true. Even if you reject the way God creates living things, it won't necessarily cost you your salvation.

jJIM THINNSEN said:

YES.. EVEN IF YOU REJECT THE WAY THAT GOD CREATED EVERYTHING TO BRING FORTH AFTER THEIR KIND (WHAT IS OBSERVED) FOR THE DEVILS LIE OF EVOLUTIONISM IT HAS NO BEARING ON YOUR SALVATION.... BUT NOT BECOMMING BORN AGAIN OF THE SPIRIT LIKE JESUS COMMANDED HIS FOLLOWERS TO DO (CHRISTIANS) WILL INDEED COST SOMEONE GODS SALVATION.. BUT STRANGELY, I HAVE NEVER MET A PERSON WHO WILL PUBLICLY STATE THAT THEY HAVE BEEN BORN AGAIN OF THE SPIRIT AND HAVE BECOME A NEW CREATURE WHO ALSO BELIEVES IN SATANS LIE OF EVOLUTION....

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Actually, I've met many evangelicals who accept the fact of evolution. But then, I know a lot of people who understand biology, and on the other hand, I know a lot of Christians.

SURELY THAT ISNT A COINCIDENCE....

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I don't think it is. The man who headed the Human Genome Project, which first sequenced the entire human genome, is a devout evangelical Christian who accepts the fact of evolution. Francis Collins has written a number of articles on the way God's creation is completely consistent with science.

The Barbarian said:

Because it's true. Even if you reject the way God creates living things, it won't necessarily cost you your salvation.



Actually, I've met many evangelicals who accept the fact of evolution. But then, I know a lot of people who understand biology, and on the other hand, I know a lot of Christians.



I don't think it is. The man who headed the Human Genome Project, which first sequenced the entire human genome, is a devout evangelical Christian who accepts the fact of evolution. Francis Collins has written a number of articles on the way God's creation is completely consistent with science.

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"The man who headed the Human Genome Project, which first sequenced the entire human genome, is a devout evangelical Christian who accepts the fact of evolution"

I DONT KNOW WHAT THE WORD "DEVOUT EVANGELICAL CHRISTIAN" MEANS.. WHICH IS AGAIN AN EXAMPLE OF A NON-SEQUITUR AND BRINGING UP SOMETHING THAT HAS ZERO TO DO WITH WHAT I WAS SAYING.. KIND OF LIKE WHEN OVAL-EARTHERS CONSTANTLY ANSWER QUESTIONS THAT NOBODY ASKS.....

AGAIN..

AGAIN?

YES!

AGAIN!!!

" I HAVE NEVER MET A PERSON WHO WILL PUBLICLY STATE THAT THEY HAVE BEEN BORN AGAIN OF THE SPIRIT AND HAVE BECOME A NEW CREATURE... WHO ALSO BELIEVES IN SATANS LIE OF EVOLUTION.... SURELY THAT ISNT A COINCIDENCE.... IM NOT SAYING THAT SUCH A PERSON DOESN'T EXIST, JUST THAT I HAVE NEVER MET ONE AND THEY WOULD SURELY BE RARE AS HEN'S TEETH"


DOES ANYONE SEE THE MEANINGLESS PHRASE "DEVOUT EVANGELICAL CHRISTIAN" ANYWHERE IN MY POST ABOVE?

I WOULD LOVE TO WAGER A LOT OF MONEY THAT THIS OVAL-EARTHER YOU MENTIONED HAS NOT BEEN BORN AGAIN OF THE SPIRIT AND A NEW CREATURE IN SPIRIT AND IN TRUTH... REMEBER WHAT JESUS SAID??

OF COURSE, THE ATHEISTS LOVE OVAL-EARTHERS WHO DO THIER BIDDING FOR THEM AND CARRY THE BANNER OF GODLESSNESS FOR THEM .. WHILE PRIVATELY LAUGHING AT THEM BEHIND THEIR BACKS AS "USEFUL... I D I O T S...

Christopher Hitchens referred to Francis Collins as "one of the greatest living Americans" and stated that Collins was one of the most devout believers he had ever met.[89] He further stated that Collins was sequencing the genome of the cancer that would ultimately claim Hitchens's life, and that their friendship despite their differing opinion on religion was an example of the greatest armed truce in modern times!!

AHAHAHAHHA PRAISE FROM THE ATHEIST!!!

"Men aren't capable of designing self-replicating machines like insects, despite our intelligent, creative ability, so you wouldn't say, "so then we just need more time and less brains", which is essentially the argument of evolution." MTW

jJIM THINNSEN said:

"Men aren't capable of designing self-replicating machines like insects,

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Wrong.

Life makes more of itself.

And now so can a set of custom-designed chemicals. Chemists have shown that a group of synthetic enzymes replicated, competed and evolved much like a natural ecosystem, but without life or cells.

"So long as you provide the building blocks and the starter seed, it goes forever," said Gerald Joyce, a chemist at the Scripps Research Institute and co-author of the paper published Thursday in Science. "It is immortalized molecular information."

Joyce's chemicals are technically hacked RNA enzymes, much like the ones we have in our bodies, but they don't behave anything like those in living creatures. But, these synthetic RNA replicators do provide a model for evolution — and shed light on one step in the development of early living systems from on a lifeless globe.

Scientists believe that early life on Earth was much more primitive than what we see around us today. It probably didn't use DNA like our cells do. This theory of the origin of life is called the RNA World hypothesis, and it posits that life began using RNA both to store information, like DNA does now, and as a catalyst allowing the molecules to reproduce. To try to understand what this life might have looked like, researchers are trying to build models for early life forms and in the process, they are discovering entirely new lifelike behavior that nonetheless isn't life, at least as we know it.
Self-Replicating Chemicals Evolve Into Lifelike Ecosystem

jJIM THINNSEN said:

I DONT KNOW WHAT THE WORD "DEVOUT EVANGELICAL CHRISTIAN" MEANS..

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Sadly, I believe you.

It's not a magical spell, or a secret handshake. Being "born again" in Christ is a matter of accepting Him as Lord and following him.

I think maybe it would be good for you do get back to your premise of evolution, find some evidence that supports your beliefs, and show that to us. You seem to be losing focus here, except for that point about scientists designing self-replicating systems. That had some relevance.

The Barbarian said:

Wrong.

Life makes more of itself.

And now so can a set of custom-designed chemicals. Chemists have shown that a group of synthetic enzymes replicated, competed and evolved much like a natural ecosystem, but without life or cells.

"So long as you provide the building blocks and the starter seed, it goes forever," said Gerald Joyce, a chemist at the Scripps Research Institute and co-author of the paper published Thursday in Science. "It is immortalized molecular information."

Joyce's chemicals are technically hacked RNA enzymes, much like the ones we have in our bodies, but they don't behave anything like those in living creatures. But, these synthetic RNA replicators do provide a model for evolution — and shed light on one step in the development of early living systems from on a lifeless globe.

Scientists believe that early life on Earth was much more primitive than what we see around us today. It probably didn't use DNA like our cells do. This theory of the origin of life is called the RNA World hypothesis, and it posits that life began using RNA both to store information, like DNA does now, and as a catalyst allowing the molecules to reproduce. To try to understand what this life might have looked like, researchers are trying to build models for early life forms and in the process, they are discovering entirely new lifelike behavior that nonetheless isn't life, at least as we know it.
Self-Replicating Chemicals Evolve Into Lifelike Ecosystem

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"Men aren't capable of designing self-replicating machines like insects"

"Wrong."

NO!! NOT "WRONG"!! RIGHT!!...

MEN ARE NOT CAPABLE OF DESIGNING SELF-REPLICATING MACHINES LIKE INSECTS!!

IF YOU ARE GOING TO "CORRECT" SOMEONE.. AT LEAST GET IT RIGHT OTHERWISE YOU MAKE YOURSELF LOOK LIKE EVEN A BIGGER FOOL!!!

"Life makes more of itself."


BECAUSE GOD DESIGNED IT THAT WAY IN THE BEGINNING.. IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH LOWLY MAN.. MAN CANNOT DESIGN SELF REPLICATING MACHINES!! (LIKE I SAID)

jJIM THINNSEN said:

"Men aren't capable of designing self-replicating machines like insects"

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Wrong.

NO!! NOT "WRONG"!! RIGHT!!...

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I just showed you an example. No point in denying the face.

IF YOU ARE GOING TO "CORRECT" SOMEONE.. AT LEAST GET IT RIGHT OTHERWISE YOU MAKE YOURSELF LOOK LIKE EVEN A BIGGER FOOL!!!

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I just showed you an example of a human-designed self-replicating system.

Life makes more of itself.

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So does that human-designed system.

BECAUSE GOD DESIGNED IT THAT WAY IN THE BEGINNING..

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That's wrong, too. Humans have to design because they are not omnipotent. God has no need for design; He's the Creator.

MAN CANNOT DESIGN SELF REPLICATING MACHINES!! (LIKE I SAID)

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I just showed you an example.

jJIM THINNSEN said:

Lots of people claimed that the only reason many people didnt vote for Obama was because he is black.. Are we seeing a similar pattern here with Ben Carson? Isnt it his skin color that really concerns you?

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I happen to be black . I think Ben Carson has whacko ideas too . It’s not about his so called race . He’s a skilled medical doctor and surgeon but his basic science understanding is extremely poor .

As far as the OP. I don’t feel the need for theistic evolution as it’s simply a fact . I wouldn’t say I need a theistic reason for yellow roses either. That they exist is a fact . Evolution is a fact. Common descent is a fact . That I’m wearing copper glitter nail polish is also a fact but I wouldn’t need a theistic explanation for that either . ( I was gonna post a picture but decided not to)

The so called "fossil record" (Dead Articulated Petrified Creatures found in the ground) ONLY makes sense if the Bible is true and there was a worldwide flood as described in Genesis!

In order for any organism to fossilize, it quickly must be covered in mud or sediment.. If it ISNT, then its rotting carcass gets scavenged and blown to the wind and that is why we DONT observe fossils forming today!

But Evolutionits HATE the Bible and what it represents for their life..

People who force themselves to believe in Satan's greatest lie of Evolutionism do so NOT because it has anything to do with science, Otherwise they would simply admit that Dinosaur red blood cells and measurable C14 currently found in Dinosaur remains are CORROBORATING HARD DATA that clearly and unequivocally prove that Dinosaurs did NOT live 100 million years ago!

This is all because of one reason, the IMPLICATIONS of the Fairytale of Evolutionism happen to align with their philosophical worldview!!

Here is where they make up stories like...

"Those arent REALLY red blood cells"

THEN WHY IS IT CONSIDERED A SHOCKER!!??

Dinosaur Shocker | Science | Smithsonian Magazine

OR

"All those samples are contaminated and THAT caused the C14"

THEN THEY NEED TO THROW OUT THE WHOLE RADIOMETRIC DATING MYTH THAT THEY HAVE BEEN SCAMMING THE PUBLIC WITH FOR DECADES!!!!

But they wont, because they are hypocrites...



Carbon-14 dating dinosaur bones

Brightmoon said:

As far as the OP. I don’t feel the need for theistic evolution as it’s simply a fact . I wouldn’t say I need a theistic reason for yellow roses either. That they exist is a fact . Evolution is a fact. Common descent is a fact . That I’m wearing copper glitter nail polish is also a fact but I wouldn’t need a theistic explanation for that either . ( I was gonna post a picture but decided not to)

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"As far as the OP. I don’t feel the need for theistic evolution as it’s simply a fact."

What do you mean by Theistic? Because WHICHEVER "god" that would be the "god of evolution", Sure wouldn't be the Judeo Christian God of the Bible THATS for sure! (6) 24 hour days of creation leaves Satan's greatest lie of Evolutionism OUT OF LUCK!! Like you say.. That is simply a FACT!

"Evolution is a fact."

I guess we get to play the dishonest Darwinian game of semantics.... Before we continue... YOU need to clarify what you mean SPECIFICALLY when you use the duplicitous and purposely vague term "Evolution".. DO YOU MEAN.. (1)... Variation, Adaptation, Speciation or ....De-volution?.. i.e. ..Finches beaks, Cave fish going blind, Moth colors, Weak bacteria lacking enzymes targeted by antibiotics, Dog ears, Mutated fruit flies with 2 WORTHLESS extra wings, Bear coats, Dog Ears and Squirrel tails? OR DO YOU MEAN ...(2)....Slow Microbe to Microbiologist (UCA for all flora and fauna over 3 BY) And DONT sit there and try to assert that #1 plus "deep time" leads to #2 as I will embarrass that silly assertion all over the internet..You will be required to put your cards on the table here.... I just KNOW you are going to enjoy this discussion with me... Cant you feel it too?

Brightmoon said:

I happen to be black . I think Ben Carson has whacko ideas too . It’s not about his so called race . He’s a skilled medical doctor and surgeon but his basic science understanding is extremely poor .

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Brightmoon said:

As far as the OP. I don’t feel the need for theistic evolution as it’s simply a fact . I wouldn’t say I need a theistic reason for yellow roses either. That they exist is a fact . Evolution is a fact. Common descent is a fact . That I’m wearing copper glitter nail polish is also a fact but I wouldn’t need a theistic explanation for that either . ( I was gonna post a picture but decided not to)

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The Barbarian said:

Wrong.



I just showed you an example. No point in denying the face.



I just showed you an example of a human-designed self-replicating system.



So does that human-designed system.



That's wrong, too. Humans have to design because they are not omnipotent. God has no need for design; He's the Creator.



I just showed you an example.

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NOPE NOTHING WAS CREATED,,,

"Humans have to design because they are not omnipotent."

MAKES ZERO SENSE

"God has no need for design; He's the Creator."

BIZARRE IN THE EXTREME TO SEE A SO CALLED "THEIST"
ARGUING AGAINST DESIGN IN NATURE... INCREDIBLE!!

The Barbarian said:

Sadly, I believe you.

It's not a magical spell, or a secret handshake. Being "born again" in Christ is a matter of accepting Him as Lord and following him.

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WOULD THAT INCLUDE CALLING CHRIST A LIAR WHILE "ACCEPTING
HIM AS LORD AND FOLLOWING HIM"? LOL PRETTY INSANE ISNT IT?


Christ’s Credibility
by ctf@creationtruth.com · March 22, 2018


In Jeremiah 2:26-27, God says through His prophet, “26 As a thief is shamed when he is discovered, so the house of Israel is shamed; they, their kings, their princes and their priests and their prophets, 27 who say to a tree, ‘You are my father,’ and to a stone, ‘You gave me birth.’ For they have turned their back to Me, and not their face; but in the time of their trouble they will say, ‘Arise and save us.’”

The “priests and prophets” of our day [church leadership] who hold to any of the religious doctrines of evolution (including naturalism, transmutation of species, or millions of years) should be “shamed” for their rejection of God’s Word, for in doing so they attack the very deity of Jesus.
In Matthew 19:4-5, Jesus asks, “4 Have you not read that He who created them from the beginning MADE THEM MALE AND FEMALE, 5 and said ‘FOR THIS REASON A MAN SHALL LEAVE HIS FATHER AND MOTHER AND BE JOINED TO HIS WIFE, AND THE TWO SHALL BECOME ONE FLESH?’”

Here Jesus quotes Genesis 1:27 and 2:24 (also in Mark 10). He states as a fact that God made them male and female at “the beginning”. The beginning of what? Human evolution millions of years ago? That’s not what He said. Jesus confirms unequivocally a day six creation of the first man and woman, thereby annulling any possibility of a universe billions of years old.
Jesus also speaks of a literal, historical Abel in Luke 11:50-51, as well as a literal, historical Noah and global flood in Matthew 24:38-39.

In just three quotes, Jesus confirms the historical truths of Genesis 1-9. To deny Genesis as literal history is to not only deny Christ’s credibility, but the very deity of Jesus! It also denies the inspiration of the New Testament as Genesis 1-11 are referenced over 100 times! For example, Adam is mentioned by name 9 times, Eve 2 times, Cain 3 times, Abel 4 times, Seth 1 time, Enoch 3 times, Noah 8 times, and the Flood 4 times.

If Genesis is allegorical and not true, then the New Testament must also be allegorical and not true. After all, this was Charles Darwin’s conclusion.

Darwin wrote in his autobiography, “I had gradually come, by this time to see that the Old Testament, from its manifestly fake history of the world…was no more to be trusted than the sacred books of the Hindus, or the beliefs of any barbarian.” He therefore concluded, “I can indeed hardly see how anyone ought to wish Christianity to be true, for it is so plain the language of the text [New Testament] seems to show that the men who do not believe…will be everlastingly punished” (Autobiography, NY 1969 ed. p. 87).

Rather than follow the wisdom of men, may we and the leaders of our churches heed the words of our Creator, “But the LORD is the true God; He is the living God and the everlasting King…It is He who made the earth by His power, who established the world by His wisdom” (Jeremiah 10:10,12).