Why do you consider yourself a 'liberal' Christian?

[Bingley]

I suppose I am, but I'm not sure I want to be.

One of the many things that's bothering me at the moment is the human tendency to classify people -- the assumption that 'you know, that lot over there, are all the same'. Thus the broad generalisations about what fundies, TWMNBN (those who may not be named), Muslims, lefties, whoever, believe and do which break down on actual contact with more than one or two examples. On the other hand it's very difficult to think without making such generalisations.

Do we need another group where we have to decide who's in and who's out? Where we define ourselves against that other lot?

 

[seebs]

Indeed, one of the underlying quirks of the liberal forum is that pretty much anyone who isn't here to pick fights is welcome to chat.

 

[McCravey]

God led me in this direction.....that is the only reason I now wear this label (for the time being....who knows?) Glad to finally find you guys.....battled through a lot of fundies to get here.

By the way;

Lets be careful not to become "fundy" liberalists.....lol

ps. is anyone working on a "creed" for us? (by the way I like listening to Creed)

 

[GreenPartyVoter]

I could be a liberal anything. By that I mean that I think I could find God through any number of faith traditions as I believe they all are viable.

I consider myself a Christian though because a) it is the faith I was raised in, b) I married into a conservative Christian family and annoucing that I would rather be a Buddhist or something else would cause considerable trouble, c) I like the personal relationship with God aspect that Christianity as I understand it offers, and d) I do believe Christ is the Son of God was born, died, and rose again. And I believe that His life and death served the purpose of teaching me that I am loved beyond all comprehension, and how to attune my life to God, His love and His Grace.

That said, I will add that I too do not take the Bible literally. Which of course means that I disagree with more orthodox expressions of the faith where the unname-able sins are concerned in this forum.

So I don't think there is any doubt that I am a liberal/progressive Christian and that Jesus loves me.

 

[GreenPartyVoter]

I also believe in universal salvation, though I suspect there might actually be something to the idea of Purgatory first.

 

[Toney]

Now that our Forum has been around for several weeks, I have noticed a style that is probably a liberal attribute. The liberal's response to a benign assertion made by a fundamentalist or conservative member is both polite and unpredictable.

Conversely, the response by a fundie or conservative is often impolite, always cites proof text, and is tiresomely predictable. It is like a carcinogen that sits in self-appointed judgement of unworthy, yet healthy and humble little cells. It invades like a pernicious beast and strikes at the body. The liberal's antigen-presenting cells are those acquired by a commitment to cognitive dissonance and also may be found in ice cream.

 

[apenman]

I am a liberal! "Mercy triumphs over judgment" for all people (James 2:12-13).

 

[sculpturegirl]

I think that both terms "conservative"' and "liberal" have such terrible connotations by the other camp. I grew up in a very "conservative" environment, where we referred to the other camp as "those dirty liberals." Now I am questioning the meanings of the words in general. I question everything and don't trust authority, yet I am very orthodox in my theology and understanding of God. It is a goal of mine to never put a lid on God, however. One thing that I love about Lutheran theology is that it is comfortable with paradoxes as well as unanswered(-able) questions. I go to a liberal church, but sometimes think that I am the most orthodox there. I do love how accepting and loving my congregation is!

I read an article reprinted from National Review (isn't that a conservative paper?) published in the Utne Reader (that one is liberal- wait a minute!) about a phenomenon called 'Crunchy Conservative." I really identified with the writer of this article. If my local, organic produce buying makes me liberal or if my orthodoxy makes me conservative then am I a "conservatible?" I am just me, I guess

When I read some of your posts I was so touched by so many of your commitments to the "unlovable," reaching out to the needy, the poor, the dispised. Isn't that a Christian issue and not a liberal or conservative? It seems like that was one of the things Christ was up to. I am deeply saddened about the state of Christianity today.

I am glad that you all welcome all people.

 

[McCravey]

, and therefore old ways to talk about God can become misleading as our frame of reference changes, and we must find new ways.

Reminds me of an old quote..."I do not follow in the footsteps of the men of old...I seek the things they sought"

 

[nyj]

Now that our Forum has been around for several weeks, I have noticed a style that is probably a liberal attribute. The liberal's response to a benign assertion made by a fundamentalist or conservative member is both polite and unpredictable.

Conversely, the response by a fundie or conservative is often impolite, always cites proof text, and is tiresomely predictable. It is like a carcinogen that sits in self-appointed judgement of unworthy, yet healthy and humble little cells. It invades like a pernicious beast and strikes at the body. The liberal's antigen-presenting cells are those acquired by a commitment to cognitive dissonance and also may be found in ice cream.

Toney,

I suggest we do not villify our brothers and sisters on the other side of the spectrum. It actually runs counter to your comments made in the first paragraph. Calling conservatives a cancer, while trying to claim the higher ground is quite the contrast.

Personally, I hate the words "conservative" and "liberal". I think neither one has any place in the Christian faith. Back around 150 AD, a bishop, on his way to martyrdom, called the Christian faith "universal". That means that both conservatives and liberals may seek His face.

 

[Toney]

Toney,
I suggest we do not villify our brothers and sisters on the other side of the spectrum. It actually runs counter to your comments made in the first paragraph. Calling conservatives a cancer, while trying to claim the higher ground is quite the contrast.

And your point is well taken, although I did not call conservatives a cancer. I wrote that their (against CF rule) reponses in liberal and other fora are often like a cancer. Big difference.

Allow me to replace that concept with an example.

Also, the law of Moses is "still around" but it is for the goats...

Now I am pretty sure that the poster did not really intend to call an entire race of people goats. Why, to do so would echo the sentiment that has reverberated in Christian history to a cacophony of pograms and persecutions that culminated with the Holocaust.

You're fond of quoting early Church fathers, nyj. (I do not mean to pick on you any more than you intended to pick on me. You are a superb Mod. I believe you posted to this thread as a member of LC, one for whom I have great respect, so I choose not to ignore your post.) To develop my point in this (too-long) post, here are a couple of short quotes from early Church fathers:

From (Saint) John Chrysostom, the Patriarch of Constantinople, this:

"Jews are the most worthless of men - they are lecherous, greedy, rapacious - they are perfidious murderers of Christians, they worship the devil, their religion is a sickness ... The Jews are the odious assassins of Christ and for killing god there is no expiation, no indulgence, no pardon. Christians may never cease vengeance. The Jews must live in servitude forever. It is incumbent on all Christians to hate the Jews."

From Gregory of Nyssa, one of the Cappadocian Fathers, also a great Saint, we get more of the same:

"Slayers of the lord, murderers of the prophets, adversaries of god, haters of god, men who show contempt for the law, foes of grace, enemies of the father's faith, advocates of the devil, brood of vipers, slanderers, scoffers, men whose minds are in darkness, leaven of the Pharisees, assembly of demons, sinners, wicked men, stoners and haters of righteousness."


My goodness, both these truly gifted men also contributed greatly to the Deposit of Faith. I mean this sincerely; my Trinitarian theological formation is highly indebted to the Cappadocians. St John Chrysostom is known as one of the great Greek Fathers and a Doctor of the Church.

From the polemics of the 2nd Century, when fledgling Christianity was coming into its own, to the virulent anti-semitism following Nicea of which the above are but two examples, to the 200-year expulsion of the Jews beginning in England (1290), France, Hungary, Germany, Austria, Lithuania, Spain and concluding in Portugal (1497), to the notorios lies of 'Blood Libel' in the Middle Ages, right up to the Holocaust of our own time, the Christian problem with Jews has been this: Why are these people still around?

To date, Replacement Theology has provided the best answer to that question, and finally many in the Church, including a distinguished Cardinal, admit even to that grievous error.*

So I ask you all, is anti-Semitism, a decidedly anti-liberal intolerance, cancerous and if so, then why do we indulge it?


*A Sacred Obligation: Re-thinking Christian Faith in Relation to Judaism and the Jewish People

 

[apenman]

Then we will simply agree to disagree.

 

[Toney]

We will agree to disagree regarding Replacement Theology, for such disagreement is legitimate and understandable in light of 1,800 years of church teaching.

Regarding anti-Semitism, whether blatant or couched as anti-Judaism, the problem with regard to this debate anyway has been addressed therefore your offer simply to disagree (which I reject) is now moot.

Some of your ideas, Alex, are interesting and I look forward to learning more about them. I mean this genuinely.

 

[sakamuyo]

It's possible to believe in replacement theology without having a hatred toward any people groups. Really, if you believe in replacement theology, I would think it would lead you to love your ethnically jewish brother, that he might see Christ in you and be restored.

 

[Toney]

Kevin,

May the peace of the Risen Lord be with you.

I can see where one might read my post and conclude that I believe in Replacement Theology. I do not.

I am not sure what you mean by "ethnically Jewish brother," nor do I want to assume I know what you mean by be restored.

 

[sakamuyo]

I'm not stating any position, to be clear. I'm saying that those who do (I didn't intend to direct that at you, just at those who hold the position), should still treat all people with love. There is no such thing as a theological position that gives an excuse for anti-semitism or hatred against any other group.

 

[Mimi]

Because I am a Christian......and a socialist ........vewy left winged.......

 

[thexman]

"Convicting people of their sins is God's job"

This is one of the main reasons I had changed from being a conservative to a liberal Christian. I had sat through too many sermons in which the preacher or the pastor think they are God. Now I sympathize with people who are suffering in life. Because not only are they suffering from realities of life, but they are also being harshly judged and criticized by Christian leaders who are supposedly the very people victims should turn to for shelter. They get double whammied. It is easy to say and be self-righteous when you have the church's backing and the world's mainstream views behind you, but when one is in the ditch, it is the true Christians that offer the real solace. To put things in perspective, my own views and life-style have changed in just within the past 10 years. Yet people don't realize that the bible scripture is nearly 2000 years old. This is why I have also made the switch from being a Republican to being a Democrat in the past 5 years.

 

[CaDan]

"Convicting people of their sins is God's job"

This is one of the main reasons I had changed from being a conservative to a liberal Christian. I had sat through too many sermons in which the preacher or the pastor think they are God. Now I sympathize with people who are suffering in life. Because not only are they suffering from realities of life, but they are also being harshly judged and criticized by Christian leaders who are supposedly the very people victims should turn to for shelter. They get double whammied. It is easy to say and be self-righteous when you have the church's backing and the world's mainstream views behind you, but when one is in the ditch, it is the true Christians that offer the real solace. To put things in perspective, my own views and life-style have changed in just within the past 10 years. Yet people don't realize that the bible scripture is nearly 2000 years old. This is why I have also made the switch from being a Republican to being a Democrat in the past 5 years.

Welcome aboard! We have fresh bread today!

current music: Bruce Cockburn - Tokyo (I'm ripping old vinyl to mp3 this weekend - lots of old favorites will be heard!)

 

[Risen Tree]

just curious.

Because

1. I came onto CF seeking answers that I had realized that I did not have, and

2. Almost every time I got into a heavy discussion, my views shifted to the left a little. That's right, folks, CF is the primary reason I'm a liberal now.

It's funny...the other day, I took an inventory of my core beliefs, and virtually every one of them except for a few were liberal in nature. It wasn't that happened in one swing of the bat; I just started changing, and after awhile, I realized, lo and behold, I'm a liberal. :o