Why Do You Care About Evolution?

[Jethro Krull]

Recently, I found myself curious about why the issue of evolution is so hotly debated. I Googled "creation forum" and the first result I found was this very message board. This puzzled me. After all, why is it the case that evolution is so commonly brought up as a religious matter? There is no doubt that this has become so common to the point that, to most of us, it is not the least bit surprising, but shouldn't it surprise us? Jesus never said anything about evolution.

Evolution is not a big issue to me, but to lots of Christians, it is. So I come here to ask you why. Yes, you, the person reading this very post.

I am not here to start a debate, because that is not what interests me. In fact, I will probably add nothing more to the discussion beyond this post, unless I need to ask for clarification.

Thank you for your time.

 

[CabVet]

Because evolution contradicts some interpretations of genesis.

 

[Split Rock]

Recently, I found myself curious about why the issue of evolution is so hotly debated. I Googled "creation forum" and the first result I found was this very message board. This puzzled me. After all, why is it the case that evolution is so commonly brought up as a religious matter? There is no doubt that this has become so common to the point that, to most of us, it is not the least bit surprising, but shouldn't it surprise us? Jesus never said anything about evolution.

Evolution is not a big issue to me, but to lots of Christians, it is. So I come here to ask you why. Yes, you, the person reading this very post.

I am not here to start a debate, because that is not what interests me. In fact, I will probably add nothing more to the discussion beyond this post, unless I need to ask for clarification.

Thank you for your time.

For many Evangelical/ Fundamentalist Christians both the inerrancy of scripture and the historical nature of Adam are central to their faith. The argument goes, if there was no Adam created perfect by God, who fell into sin, then there is no need for a savior, and Jesus and the NT goes out the window.

 

[Phred]

Well, it's really pretty simple. Assuming you have some basis in religion and some belief that means you likely believe in a god and in a human soul. Many Christians do not believe that other animals have souls, only humans. If we evolved from a common ancestor with a chimpanzee that means at some point we didn't have a soul. Evolution shows us that the evolution was very gradual. So... without the special Biblical creation... when did mankind get a soul? Did God just randomly pick some people and suddenly they had souls when others didn't? Then what about all those people before the Bible came along? You've got millions and millions of people who had souls and died and ... what? Believed in Zeus and Mithras and all sorts of wrong gods. Where did their souls go?

You see, if evolution is correct it goes a long way to showing us that mankind isn't so very special as religionists would have you believe. I happen to think that being the most intelligent species on the planet is pretty good by itself. There's no reason to lie to ourselves about magic beings and silly nonsense like salvation and whether you believe in something determines where your "soul" spends eternity.

Evolution is important because it's real. It's important because it's factual. It's important because it disproves literal religion. And that's why they hate it so much.

 

[NailsII]

If evolution is true, which the evidence suggests that it is, then god didn't create the life we see today.
It means that we are 'just' animals (and explains why much of our behaviour is seen in other animals).
It means that morals are evolved and not god-given.

This doesn't just disprove a literal reding of the bible but it shakes the foundations of faith itself.

Note with interest however that it doesn't mean that god couldn't have created life and then left it going, but this becomes more like a deist god that doesn't intervene in our everyday life.

Evolution is important because it is based on evidence.
There may be areas that are not clearly understood yet, but that does not preclude the fact that evolution is observable, falsifiable, testable and predictions can be made based upon the theory of evolution.

Just for clarity - evolution is a fact.
Evolution by natural selection is a theory which explains these facts.

Gravity is a fact.
General Relativity is a theory which explains this fact.

 

[metherion]

The evolution issue is important to me because it is about a religion being able to limit useful knowledge of society at a whole because of the views of a minority that contradict observable reality.

Evolutionary biology has helped humanity's understanding of the world a lot, and has a lot of potential to continue to help human life. So do geology, nuclear physics, etc. And I believe that God would not have given humanity curiosity if He DIDN"T want us exploring all the mysteries of the universe, and using them to increase happiness/standard of living/longevity/alleviate suffering/etc of the whole human race.

Attempting to stand in the way and stop science is wrong on several levels, in my mind. First, there is the whole attempting to inflict one's religion on others, and once anyone is allowed to do that, where will it stop? There's little difference to me between "You must believe and teach this one specific interpretation of the Bible and cease studying certain types of science" and "You must believe and teach Islam and cease studying the Bible" (I only use Islam here because many people see it as a scare religion, put your religion of choice there, Scientology, Hindu, Wicca, et cetera).
Second, it's standing the way of doing what I believe God WANTS... exploring the universe.
Third, it's inflicting suffering on hardship on future generations, and that's the worst of all. Discoveries that would have been made now aren't being made because the general enthusiasm around science has been dulled, and children who might otherwise have been researchers have been lied to about science. These discoveries could advance human technology, help alleviate human suffering... and they're not being made. We're making the next generations deal with current 'not wanting to deal with it'-itude, which is to me the most grievous thing of all.

Metherion

 

[juvenissun]

Recently, I found myself curious about why the issue of evolution is so hotly debated. I Googled "creation forum" and the first result I found was this very message board. This puzzled me. After all, why is it the case that evolution is so commonly brought up as a religious matter? There is no doubt that this has become so common to the point that, to most of us, it is not the least bit surprising, but shouldn't it surprise us? Jesus never said anything about evolution.

Evolution is not a big issue to me, but to lots of Christians, it is. So I come here to ask you why. Yes, you, the person reading this very post.

I am not here to start a debate, because that is not what interests me. In fact, I will probably add nothing more to the discussion beyond this post, unless I need to ask for clarification.

Thank you for your time.

Yes, if you are not a Christian, then it is not a significant problem. Not because it is insignificant, but because it is not considered. For example, in Buddhism, nothing is said about the origin and evolution. It is simply not an issue. Of course, it would not be a problem.

But in Christianity, it clearly says: God creates. Then you have an origin problem. Evolution is one goes opposite to creation. It means evolution is against God. Of course it becomes a serious problem.

Welcome to CF. Hope you stay.

 

[Split Rock]

Yes, if you are not a Christian, then it is not a significant problem. Not because it is insignificant, but because it is not considered. For example, in Buddhism, nothing is said about the origin and evolution. It is simply not an issue. Of course, it would not be a problem.

But in Christianity, it clearly says: God creates. Then you have an origin problem. Evolution is one goes opposite to creation. It means evolution is against God. Of course it becomes a serious problem.

Welcome to CF. Hope you stay.

Unless you believe that God creates by way of evolution.

 

[Somchai]

Unless you believe that God creates by way of evolution.

This seems more logical to me right now. I also think animals probably have souls, so the problem up the thread is not a problem to me.

 

[juvenissun]

Evolution is against nothing, evolution doesn't care if there is a God or not, only you care, the question is why?

If evolution existed along, then it would against nothing.

If evolution coexists with creation, and if creation implies God, then evolution becomes against God.

A little logic may help to clear up your mind.

 

[juvenissun]

Unless you believe that God creates by way of evolution.

It won't work. It simply tried to compromise and ended with a monster. It would be even worse then evolution alone.

 

[juvenissun]

This seems more logical to me right now. I also think animals probably have souls, so the problem up the thread is not a problem to me.

If you look further deep into the situation, you will find a lot problems.

For example, animals have souls. We have souls. Are you talking about the same nature of soul? If yes, then you would think that there are animals in the Heaven. A lot of problems will follow this simple idea. You may end up rewrite the whole Christian theology.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Recently, I found myself curious about why the issue of evolution is so hotly debated. I Googled "creation forum" and the first result I found was this very message board. This puzzled me. After all, why is it the case that evolution is so commonly brought up as a religious matter? There is no doubt that this has become so common to the point that, to most of us, it is not the least bit surprising, but shouldn't it surprise us? Jesus never said anything about evolution.

Evolution is not a big issue to me, but to lots of Christians, it is. So I come here to ask you why. Yes, you, the person reading this very post.

I am not here to start a debate, because that is not what interests me. In fact, I will probably add nothing more to the discussion beyond this post, unless I need to ask for clarification.

Thank you for your time.

'Creation' is a belief. Evolution is a conclusion based on human observation and reasoning. The God of the Bible is very concerned with belief, as the foundation of his religion. God calls his chosen to belief, not to scientific knowledge or theory. From there God requires that we learn more about Him than anything else. If something conflicts with this knowledge it must be opposed or discarded. And it is not necessary to learn all about it first.

 

[Split Rock]

It won't work. It simply tried to compromise and ended with a monster. It would be even worse then evolution alone.

It is a monster most Christians world-wide seem to have no trouble with.

 

[Split Rock]

'Creation' is a belief. Evolution is a conclusion based on human observation and reasoning. The God of the Bible is very concerned with belief, as the foundation of his religion. God calls his chosen to belief, not to scientific knowledge or theory. From there God requires that we learn more about Him than anything else. If something conflicts with this knowledge it must be opposed or discarded. And it is not necessary to learn all about it first.

Why would belief in God, if correct, conflict with what we observe and reason out?

Why would God give us the ability to observe and reason if he didn't want us to do so? Is that like putting a tree in the Garden of Eden he didn't want us to eat from?

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Why would belief in God, if correct, conflict with what we observe and reason out?

Why would God give us the ability to observe and reason if he didn't want us to do so? Is that like putting a tree in the Garden of Eden he didn't want us to eat from?

Of course we are to observe and reason. However the tree presented differing choices of what we would choose to believe. There is nothing intrinsically wrong with believing in evolution, but, if it leads you away from the knowledge of God one might conclude that is part of the 'knowledge of evil'. Jes' sayin'.

Recall that the root words contained in the two opposing bodies of knowledge are 'good', from 'God', and 'evil', from 'devil'? Note that the Hebrew root for serpent embodies the scientific method of observation and reason, whereas the 'knowledge of (God)' comes by revelation. Most of man's problems come from 'leaning on his own understanding', and by rejecting revelation.

 

[juvenissun]

It is a monster most Christians world-wide seem to have no trouble with.

I don't know about the "most". Even some do, it is because they do not really think about it. Just like most Muslims do not take Koran real seriously (thanks God).

Like I said, TE has tons of "extra" problems. It is a bad theology.

 

[juvenissun]

Why would belief in God, if correct, conflict with what we observe and reason out?

Why would God give us the ability to observe and reason if he didn't want us to do so? Is that like putting a tree in the Garden of Eden he didn't want us to eat from?

For example?

The forbidden tree is a good illustration. Its fruit looks good and tastes good (satan told the truth). So why not eat it? Adam does not understand the real reason. That is why he ate it.

If your reason conflicted with what God says, it is because you do not understand the real reason.

 

[Split Rock]

Of course we are to observe and reason. However the tree presented differing choices of what we would choose to believe. There is nothing intrinsically wrong with believing in evolution, but, if it leads you away from the knowledge of God one might conclude that is part of the 'knowledge of evil'.

(emphasis mine) Ah... this I do not have a problem with, per se. I have no problem with those who accommodate reality within their religious beliefs, as I do not see religion as problematic in itself. It is when theists reject reality for their religion, and then try to impose this descision on others that I object.

Recall that the root words contained in the two opposing bodies of knowledge are 'good', from 'God', and 'evil', from 'devil'? Note that the Hebrew root for serpent embodies the scientific method of observation and reason, whereas the 'knowledge of (God)' comes by revelation. Most of man's problems come from 'leaning on his own understanding', and by rejecting revelation.

Nonsense. There has been plenty of evil perpetrated on behalf of "divine revelation." It is all, in a sense, based on man's understanding, including his understanding of what is considered "divine revelation."

 

[Split Rock]

The forbidden tree is a good illustration. Its fruit looks good and tastes good (satan told the truth). So why not eat it? Adam does not understand the real reason. That is why he ate it.

And why then was he punished by God and cursed by him?

If your reason conflicted with what God says, it is because you do not understand the real reason.

Or you do not understand what God says.