Why do YE Creationists insist on a simplistic literal reading of the bible?

[BrianJK]

Why do you keep talking about science?

If my credit card company claims I didn't pay my bill and I produce a bank record that they deducted it from my account, that would be objective evidence that they were paid.

If I get in a car accident and the person that hit me claims they didn't run a red light, but there was a red light camera on the corner that proves they did, that is objective evidence.

Courts of law require evidence to be admissible (not hearsay etc.) and if it doesn't meet a certain standard, it is not allowed. There is a reason for this, because they seek evidence that is as vetted as possible.

I don't know of any objective evidence that God exists, the kind that could be verified or accepted by any court of law, so to me, people take it on faith. If they admit they are taking it on faith, I have no issue with that.

Luckily I am not a court, nor do I require one to discern truth. I do take my belief on faith and personal experience. That experience is proof for me, but obviously not for a court of law or a scientist.

 

[Kellyvee]

What is it to you if I take the Bible on faith while you take all scientific evidence on faith?

I just explained to you that I don't but never mind.

I said I can accept some scientific evidence where it doesn't decide it knows better than God, but I test what science says by Scripture, rather than the other way around, as you would have.

I think we should stop now because you are just going around in circles.

You believe whatever makes you happy.

 

[AV1611VET]

Again that's back to front, the one who said There is no God is the smart one.

No -- [self-professed] wise one -- Homo sapiens.

As Paul predicted ...

Romans 1:22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,

You say There is no God about all the other Gods, are you a fool?

I use small a small gee, not a capital one.

Galatians 4:8 Howbeit then, when ye knew not God, ye did service unto them which by nature are no gods.

AV1611VET, be honest, don't you find all this to be just a little bit childish.

No.

 

[AV1611VET]

If my credit card company claims I didn't pay my bill and I produce a bank record that they deducted it from my account, that would be objective evidence that they were paid.

More like objective evidence that they did some hacking or something.

You have a credit card company that can deduct from your account?

Unless it's an escrow account or something.

AFAIK, the bank can deduct it and pay it on your behalf, but the credit card company can't just take it.

(I could be wrong on this though.)

 

[BrianJK]

I just explained to you that I don't but never mind.

I think we should stop now because you are just going around in circles.

You believe whatever makes you happy.

I think I will!

 

[bhsmte]

Luckily I am not a court, nor do I require one to discern truth. I do take my belief on faith and personal experience. That experience is proof for me, but obviously not for a court of law or a scientist.

Yes you do take your belief on faith, just as the believers of the many other Gods who believe just as strongly as you in their God.

No problem with faith based beliefs as long as they are called what they are.

 

[Kellyvee]

No problem with faith based beliefs as long as they are called what they are.

Faith doesn't work because on it's own it's not enough, all believers know this, that's why they strive to find proof.
They know that there would need to be something mentally wrong with them for faith ever to be enough.

Ever since religions began people have walked the earth searching for something to cling to,
pilgrimages by so called believers to far flung places to touch something physical to prove Gods existence for them,
that's why most churches had at least one piece of the cross, it never occurred to them that the cross would need to be as big as the Ark to give everyone a piece, but hay,
a lot of money was made (and still is) by a lot of people because of this need by believers for something physical.

The constant searching for the Ark is the perfect example of believers needing to reinforce their faith with facts,
faith alone was and always will be just a dream for believers.

 

[BrianJK]

Faith doesn't work because on it's own it's not enough, all believers know this, that's why they strive to find proof.
They know that there would need to be something mentally wrong with them for faith ever to be enough.

Ever since religions began people have walked the earth searching for something to cling to,
pilgrimages by so called believers to far flung places to touch something physical to prove Gods existence for them,
that's why most churches had at least one piece of the cross, it never occurred to them that the cross would need to be as big as the Ark to give everyone a piece, but hay,
a lot of money was made (and still is) by a lot of people because of this need by believers for something physical.

The constant searching for the Ark is the perfect example of believers needing to reinforce their faith with facts,
faith alone was and always will be just a dream for believers.

So now because faith is enough for me something is mentally wrong with me? Where do you get these ideas?

 

[Kellyvee]

I do take my belief on faith and personal experience. That experience is proof for me,

So now because faith is enough for me something is mentally wrong with me? Where do you get these ideas?

Don't forget the 'proof' of personal experience.
Ask yourself, had you not had your 'personal experience' would your faith be enough?
Why do all born again Christians love to emphasize their 'personal experience'? are they not satisfied just having 'faith?

Please don't forget, I have been through what you are going through.
The very last person in this world who wanted to stop believing was me, the comfort me beliefs gave me is now gone, and I'm glad.

Just writing that has made me change my icon to Atheist.

 

[BrianJK]

God granting me experiences somehow weakens my faith? I'm confused...

I've always wondered how someone could belittle the faith of a believer, yet have the faith themselves to say there is zero possibility in any knowledge known or unknown to any man for any deity to exist (atheism).

 

[rikerjoe]

God granting me experiences somehow weakens my faith? I'm confused...

I've always wondered how someone could belittle the faith of a believer, yet have the faith themselves to say there is zero possibility in any knowledge known or unknown to any man for any deity to exist (atheism).

I've wondered that too. If you ever meet one, maybe you can ask him/her?


Hint: What you describe is NOT atheism.

 

[Kellyvee]

Don't forget the 'proof' of personal experience.
Ask yourself, had you not had your 'personal experience' would your faith be enough?
Why do all born again Christians love to emphasize their 'personal experience'? are they not satisfied just having 'faith?

Please don't forget, I have been through what you are going through.
The very last person in this world who wanted to stop believing was me, the comfort me beliefs gave me is now gone, and I'm glad.

Just writing that has made me change my icon to Atheist.

God granting me experiences somehow weakens my faith? I'm confused...

Where did I say your 'personal experience' weakened your faith? I asked would your faith have been enough...
had you not had the proof of your ''personal experience'?

I've always wondered how someone could belittle the faith of a believer, yet have the faith themselves to say there is zero possibility in any knowledge known or unknown to any man for any deity to exist (atheism).

You really are in deep, so deep in fact that it seems you only see and read what you want to see and read.

I did not say and have never said 'there is no God', why? because I don't know, do you say 'there is a God'?
if you do please tell me how you know.

Even Atheism does not say 'there is no God' no one with a brain can say 'there is no God', how would they know?
that would be as bad as saying 'there is a God' no one with a brain can say 'there is a God', how would they know?
They can say they 'believe there is a God' because that's their belief, but to say they 'know' is just silly.

 

[BrianJK]

Where did I say your 'personal experience' weakened your faith? I asked would your faith have been enough...
had you not had the proof of your ''personal experience'?

You really are in deep, so deep in fact that it seems you only see and read what you want to see and read.

I did not say and have never said 'there is no God', why? because I don't know, do you say 'there is a God'?
if you do please tell me how you know.

Even Atheism does not say 'there is no God' no one with a brain can say 'there is no God', how would they know?
that would be as bad as saying 'there is a God' no one with a brain can say 'there is a God', how would they know?
They can say they 'believe there is a God' because that's their belief, but to say they 'know' is just silly.

That is the definition of "atheism"

1. the doctrine or belief that there is no God.

2. disbelief in the existence of a supreme being or beings.




And to answer your question, I did have faith before any experience, so yes, faith is enough.

 

[BrianJK]

I've wondered that too. If you ever meet one, maybe you can ask him/her?


Hint: What you describe is NOT atheism.

I'm just going by the definition of the word

 

[bhsmte]

That is the definition of "atheism"

1. the doctrine or belief that there is no God.

2. disbelief in the existence of a supreme being or beings.




And to answer your question, I did have faith before any experience, so yes, faith is enough.

These definitions can be interpreted in different ways and have been by many.

To me, I am atheist towards the God of the bible, because I simply don't believe that God exists and comparing the bible itself, to the real world we live in has brought me to that belief. In regards to a universal God, one who does not answer prayers, intervene on earth etc., that God I am agnostic towards, because I believe there is slightly more likelihood, that God has a chance of existing (but still very small).

There may be some atheists who claim with 100% certainty that God does not exist, but those are rare, but not nearly as common as christians who claim with 100% certainty, that God does exist.

 

[OllieFranz]

God granting me experiences somehow weakens my faith? I'm confused...

Yes, you are confused, because what Kelly said was that the experiences re-inforce your faith, feed it. His point was that if faith is not fed, it withers. No one can continue to hold a belief without some sort of evidence feeding it. Whether that evidence is objective or subjective

I've always wondered how someone could belittle the faith of a believer, yet have the faith themselves to say there is zero possibility in any knowledge known or unknown to any man for any deity to exist (atheism).

Agnostism and "soft" atheism make more logical sense to me than "hard" atheism. However, there are "hard" atheists. Something, some subjective evidence, must be part of their experiences.

 

[BrianJK]

Fait enough. Call yourself what you will. I am not here to insult anyone else's belief system.

 

[BrianJK]

I don't agree with the withering faith concept. Where did you get that from?

 

[bhsmte]

I don't agree with the withering faith concept. Where did you get that from?

Well, some people's faith can "wither". As we have experiences, as we learn, we may be in a position to release a belief we had faith in before, because of what we have accepted as fact and how we evolve personally from a psychological standpoint.

Just curious, what percentage would you place on your faith that the God of the bible does exist?

 

[BrianJK]

Well, some people's faith can "wither". As we have experiences, as we learn, we may be in a position to release a belief we had faith in before, because of what we have accepted as fact and how we evolve personally from a psychological standpoint.

Just curious, what percentage would you place on your faith that the God of the bible does exist?

I have no doubt. So 100% I suppose