Why do we look so much like apes?

ViaCrucis said:

It has nothing to do with biology unless you believe that God has skin, bones, eyelids, and a reproductive system and began as an embryo from a biological parent.

The Imago Dei is a theological statement, not a biological or anatomical one.

Three ways of understanding the Imago Dei.

I would also add that the theological meaning in Genesis indicates a temple activity. The heavens and the earth are fashioned as a temple, a place for God to dwell and, like any temple project, the finishing act is to place the image of the deity into that temple. Mankind is that image, there to represent God's glory in His creation. Simultaneously we could also say that man is placed there also as priests there to take care of God's Temple--heaven and earth. That same project is continued throughout the biblical narrative and marvelously finds fruition in Christ and ultimately in the restoration of heaven and earth at the Eschaton as brilliantly described by St. John the Divine in the closing chapters of the Apocalypse.

-CryptoLutheran

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Again, I ask, in what way are we made in God's image?

mathetes123 said:

Again, I ask, in what way are we made in God's image?

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Most likely, it is a metaphorical phrase. Humans are the only animals with morality, the only animals which can perceive God and are expected to act like Him.

It's not very likely God actually looks like a human (except through His son of course). And if He did, that would only raise several confusing questions: is God white? Does that mean only Europeans were made in god's image?

That might sound like a ridiculous question, but I once heard another user support that idea.

Notedstrangeperson said:

Most likely, it is a metaphorical phrase. Humans are the only animals with morality, the only animals which can perceive God and are expected to act like Him.

It's not very likely God actually looks like a human (except through His son of course). And if He did, that would only raise several confusing questions: is God white? Does that mean only Europeans were made in god's image?

That might sound like a ridiculous question, but I once heard another user support that idea.

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So at what point in the evolutiinary process did we become moral beings and therefore responsible for our sins?

mathetes123 said:

So evolution, which is essentially, "kill or be killed, survival of the fittest" fits with God's nature?

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Sometimes the fittest are the creatures that work together, who provide for each other, and are willing to lay down their lives for the members of their nest, pack or flange. Prov 6:6 Go to the ant... consider her ways, and be wise.

mathetes123 said:

So at what point in the evolutiinary process did we become moral beings and therefore responsible for our sins?

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I've wondered that same thing. Most TE's will probably say it was when Adam received his soul. Personally I'm undecided.

Jase said:

So I take it you believe the sun revolves around the earth and the earth is flat with a solid dome above it?

Or are you very selective in your "I go by my Bible" claim?

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\

Now you're being more than just plain dense. And the bible spoke of the earth as round. And the bible never said that the earth was flat with a dome above it--and Atlas doesn't hold it up either. And just wondering----it takes how many sperm to finally get into one egg and start a life?? Was the first life an egg or a sperm and when did the egg or sperm know it needed a mate to survive--Just exactly what was it that just sprung out of nowhere and became life?? I'll admit I'm evolutionary "challenged". I do not comprehend what was the first life--I remember reading way back when that it was an amoeba type thing, and that decided to morph into something else--but every living thing needs fuel--what was it's fuel? Was there just one amoeba that sprang into life, or several? I know the evolutionary ideas have changed, and really do not know the current idea. Can somebody please enlightened this old lady on that very beginning please so that I am not so outdated.

Notedstrangeperson said:

I've wondered that same thing. Most TE's will probably say it was when Adam received his soul. Personally I'm undecided.

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So, before Adam received his soul, were Adam's ancestors also created in the image of God? How exactly does the process of evolution carry one from a soulless creation to a being with a soul? What mutation resulted in the soul carrying beings and did survival of the fittest weed out the beings without souls or do we still have soulless beings among us today?

Assyrian said:

Sometimes the fittest are the creatures that work together, who provide for each other, and are willing to lay down their lives for the members of their nest, pack or flange. Prov 6:6 Go to the ant... consider her ways, and be wise.

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1Co 1:25 For the foolishness of God is wiser than men, and the weakness of God is stronger than men.
1Co 1:26 For consider your calling, brothers: not many of you were wise according to worldly standards, not many were powerful, not many were of noble birth.
1Co 1:27 But God chose what is foolish in the world to shame the wise; God chose what is weak in the world to shame the strong;
1Co 1:28 God chose what is low and despised in the world, even things that are not, to bring to nothing things that are,
1Co 1:29 so that no human being might boast in the presence of God.
1Co 1:30 And because of him you are in Christ Jesus, who became to us wisdom from God, righteousness and sanctification and redemption,
1Co 1:31 so that, as it is written, "Let the one who boasts, boast in the Lord."

mathetes123 said:

So, before Adam received his soul, were Adam's ancestors also created in the image of God? How exactly does the process of evolution carry one from a soulless creation to a being with a soul? What mutation resulted in the soul carrying beings and did survival of the fittest weed out the beings without souls or do we still have soulless beings among us today?

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I personally don't believe in a literal Adam, although other TEs do.

If Adam was the first human to receive a soul, then presumably his predecessors were not 'created in God's image' Since the soul is a gift from God and not a physical thing, it was not the result of any mutation.

What happened to the other humans who didn't have souls? Not a clue. But like I said, I don't believe in a literal Adam.

mathetes123 said:

Many cars from a single manufacturer share the same parts, but we never assume they evolved. We recognize they had a common designer. Human beings are so much more complex than automobiles. Why doesn't the same reasoning process apply?

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Right. But their sorry excuse is that automobiles are not biological and the analogy therefore does not apply. Such shallow thinkers. They forget that life before 'abiogenesis' was all dead. So how did those unliving parts come together?

Example please.

mmksparbud said:

\

Now you're being more than just plain dense. And the bible spoke of the earth as round. And the bible never said that the earth was flat with a dome above it--and Atlas doesn't hold it up either. And just wondering----it takes how many sperm to finally get into one egg and start a life?? Was the first life an egg or a sperm and when did the egg or sperm know it needed a mate to survive--Just exactly what was it that just sprung out of nowhere and became life?? I'll admit I'm evolutionary "challenged". I do not comprehend what was the first life--I remember reading way back when that it was an amoeba type thing, and that decided to morph into something else--but every living thing needs fuel--what was it's fuel? Was there just one amoeba that sprang into life, or several? I know the evolutionary ideas have changed, and really do not know the current idea. Can somebody please enlightened this old lady on that very beginning please so that I am not so outdated.

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It goes something like this:

From the goo, through the zoo, to me and you.

That's all you need to know. A scientist said it was true, so it must be so.

Kirkwhisper said:

Right. But their sorry excuse is that automobiles are not biological and the analogy therefore does not apply. Such shallow thinkers. They forget that life before 'abiogenesis' was all dead. So how did those unliving parts come together?

Example please.

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Abiogenesis can be simply defined as life coming from non-life. Scientists recently created synthetic bacteria. Needless to say, it was rather controversial.

mathetes123 said:

So at what point in the evolutiinary process did we become moral beings and therefore responsible for our sins?

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Notedstrangeperson said:

I've wondered that same thing. Most TE's will probably say it was when Adam received his soul. Personally I'm undecided.

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Worth pointing out we can't answer that question about children either.

Not so sure about a soul since the bible uses the same term for animals too. I would say you need three things, first the human mind to be sufficiently developed to understand right and wrong, then a command from God to obey or disobey (whether this comes with moral awareness is another question) I am echoing Paul in Rom 7:9 that it was when he knew the command of God that he sinned and died. You also need consequences to the command, to set a human apart from a particularly altruistic hominid, a promise of eternal life that will be lost if you disobey. It is starting to sound a bit like Genesis. Then again maybe God will surprise us all and say to that homind, well done you good and faithful australopithicine.

ViaCrucis said:

Herro, my name is Canis lupus familiaris:

So you want an example and the entire genomic structure of every distinct organism tracing the lineage of the hyena and thylacine in order to offer sufficient evidence of convergent evolution?

Well done, no I can't offer that and nobody can.

-CryptoLutheran

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Charles Darwin agreed...

Quote: "Why, if species have descended from other species by insensibly find gradations, do we not everywhere see innumerable transitional forms? Why is not all nature in confusion instead of species being, as we see them, well defined?

But, as by this theory innumerable transitional forms must have existed why do we not find them embedded in countless numbers in the crust of the earth?

Why then is not every geological formation and every stratum full of such intermediate links?

Geology assuredly does not reveal any such finely graduated organic chain; and this, perhaps, is the most obvious and gravest objection which can be urged against my theory."

(The Origin of the Species, Oxford University Press, New York, 1998, pp 140, 141, 227)

The problem that existed in his time is the same problem evolutionists have today. But they refuse to be embarrassed about it. They prefer to pretend.

Kirkwhisper said:

Charles Darwin agreed...

Quote: "Why, if species have descended from other species by insensibly find gradations, do we not everywhere see innumerable transitional forms? Why is not all nature in confusion instead of species being, as we see them, well defined?

But, as by this theory innumerable transitional forms must have existed why do we not find them embedded in countless numbers in the crust of the earth?

Why then is not every geological formation and every stratum full of such intermediate links?

Geology assuredly does not reveal any such finely graduated organic chain; and this, perhaps, is the most obvious and gravest objection which can be urged against my theory."

(The Origin of the Species, Oxford University Press, New York, 1998, pp 140, 141, 227)

The problem that existed in his time is the same problem evolutionists have today. But they refuse to be embarrassed about it. They prefer to pretend.

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Exactly!

Evolution would not necessarily tend toward speciation with distinct groups of animals, but we should see all sorts of transitional beings between different species existing alongside those species.

Notedstrangeperson said:

Abiogenesis can be simply defined as life coming from non-life. Scientists recently created synthetic bacteria. Needless to say, it was rather controversial.

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I don't believe those synthetic bacteria were created from non-life.

Notedstrangeperson said:

I personally don't believe in a literal Adam, although other TEs do.

If Adam was the first human to receive a soul, then presumably his predecessors were not 'created in God's image' Since the soul is a gift from God and not a physical thing, it was not the result of any mutation.

What happened to the other humans who didn't have souls? Not a clue. But like I said, I don't believe in a literal Adam.

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If there was not a literal Adam, and we were created by the process of evolution, then sin must have been an evolutionary byproduct. How can God hold us responsible for sin?

mathetes123 said:

If there was not a literal Adam, and we were created by the process of evolution, then sin must have been an evolutionary byproduct. How can God hold us responsible for sin?

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Personally I think humans are the only animals able to perceive objective morality - although defining it has always been difficult. The same action which might be normal for an animal would be sinful for a human. Our ability to perceive, and go against, objective morality is what makes man sinful.

But that's just my opinion.

Oddly I often see creationists and atheists use the same arguments. Some argue that if the dark side of man's nature is evolved then it cannot be sinful.

Mathetes123 said:

I don't believe those synthetic bacteria were created from non-life.

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I'm not sure which chemicals they used so I can't give you many more details.

One might ask, "Did Gravity Evolve? And, if so, what did it Evolve from?" In order to have a Law, there must be a Lawmaker, even of Natural Laws, and Especially of Divine Laws, which are Eternally the same. Gravity has always been Gravity, and it Works Well Universally, in spite of the Fact that Scientists have not been able to Thoroughly Explain it: beCause it is still a Mystery. According to the Bible, Life began on Earth with a MAN, after which God's Angel, EDEN, Planted a Garden with the Help of other Angels, after which God formed the Beasts out of the Dust / Elements of the Ground, and brought them to Adam, who gave Names to all of the Creatures, and wrote their Names and Descriptions in a Book of Remembrance; and, at last, even Years later, God formed a Wombman from one of the Ribs that he took out of Adam, who became Eve. No Evolution was necessary. See Chapter 2 of Genesis. Chapter 1 is referring to a Spiritual Creation: beCause even God must have a Plan before he Builds something, and Chapter 1 is the Spiritual Plan, which is somewhat explained in Chapter 2, which Reveals that there was as yet "no man to till the ground." Indeed, there were no Herbs in the Fields, and no Beasts to Observe: beCause God had not yet Formed them from the Elements of the Earth. However, in order to Fully Understand the Creation Story / History, one would have to Carefully Study: "The New MAGNIFIED Version of the BEGINNINGS, or GENESIS, in Plain English!" It is a Wonderful Story to Study, even if you do not Believe it: beCause it makes Good Sense. After all, God is in the Business of Reproducing himself, which is WHY he Created Mankind in his own Image to begin with, according to his own Likeness, having a Spirit, Mind, and Body, which is the Temple of God, wherein the Holy Spirit Desires to Live. However, she cannot Live in Unclean Temples, as the Apostle Paul Revealed. Neither can the Spirits of Truth and Wisdom Live within a Heart that is already Filled with Doubt, Unbelief, Fear, nor Hatred toward God. Therefore, a Sincere Person must come to God in a Humble State of Mind, after Realizing the Nothingness of Mankind without the 7 Spirits of God. Yes, a Sincere Person must Humble himself by Means of Fasting and Praying, until he becomes like an Innocent Child with a Pure Mind and a Clean Body, both Inside and Outside, or else he cannot even Visualize what the Kingdom or Government of God is like, let alone Enter into it, and at last Reign with Christ in that Holy Kingdom, as a King, Priest, Teacher, or whatever. Therefore, the Wise People will Seek the Truths that God Reveals about his Marvelous Creations. Remember that most of the Creatures were Destroyed on this Earth several Times, which is WHY God Created Mankind, in Order to "Replenish" it. Therefore, do not be Spiritually Blinded by the Discovery of Ancient Bones of any Kind: beCause they have no Relationship to the Bodies that were Created after Adam, who was the First Man and the Beginning of the Creation of Life on this Earth, after the Great Destruction before that Time. The Truth is, there are NO Missing Links between any Creatures; but, there are many Extinct Creatures, which Produced Seeds according to their own Kinds, even as it still is. See my Free Book, called: "Did People EVOLVE from APES??" One might ask, "Will People DEVOLVE into something Lower than the Apes, if we do not Change our Ways?" People Suffer with some 300,000+ Diseases that Apes and Monkeys in the Wilderness know almost nothing about: beCause People Ignore Natural and Divine Dietary Laws, and even Vainly Imagine that they can Rightly Eat whatever they Want to, while no Wild Animal would ever Consider such Insanity, which Explains WHY they have no Doctors, Hospitals, Drugs, Endless Bills to Pay, nor any Need for them! In Deed, they are Free with a Capital F, while most People are in Great Bondage with a Capital GB. People cannot Live for more than a few Minutes at most without Air, and yet they do not have Sufficient Appreciation for Air to Capitalize it, as well as Water, Food, Clothing, Houses, and so on: beCause, in their Brainwashed Minds, the names of Ford Motors and General Electric are far more Important; but, not to God, who Believes in Clean Air, Pure Water, Wholesome Natural Foods, Proper Clothing, Secure Houses, Good Government, Correct Doctrines, and all of the Good Things that the Bible Proposes for Mankind, which should all be Capitalized, beginning with Love, Light, Knowledge, Truth, Wisdom, Freedom, and Justice for ALL. Therefore, God Hates Tax Slavery, Usury Slavery, Insurance Slavery, Work Slavery, and all other Forms of Slavery, which are all Unnecessary. Just Think, if everyone in the World should Learn, Believe, Love, and OBEY "the New MAGNIFIED Version of the Ten Commandments," just how many Taxes would be Needed? "You shall Learn the Truth, and the Truth will make you Free when you Practice it," as Jesus Christ Suggested. "Seek, and you shall Find ..."

Evolution is just a Word, which has no Power to Create anything; but, it is the Method by which most Inventions have been "Created," except that all Creations must be Alive. Therefore, they are called "Inventions of Men." Cars "Evolved" from Wagons, you might say, and Airplanes "Evolved" from Birds, they might say; but, an Arctic Crane is far more Complicated than any Airplane, and can even Bypass Tropical Storms by going in the Right Direction, DAYS in Advance: beCause of somehow Knowing to do so, even as many other Creatures Migrate without the Aid of Mankind's Technologies. Their Instincts were Born within them, and have always been so, or else they would not have Survived until now. The Elephants in Indonesia Instinctively Knew that they must Flee to Higher Ground, in Order to Survive the Coming Tsunami that Struct; but, Multitudes of People have Lost their Natural Instincts: beCause of not Obeying them.

And that brings us to another very Important Word, called: DESIGN. Who Designed Instincts? Who Designed Natural Dietary Laws for all of the Animals? Who Designed their Foods that they would Eat? It becomes Obvious that someone had to Plant a DESIGNED Garden, or else all of the Creatures would have simply Starved to Death: beCause their Digestive Systems would have not been Able to Assimilate the Foods that Evolved from nothing, since Evolution could not Design anything: beCause of being Powerless to do so without some Great Master Mind who Designed all Things to Work Together in Harmony, with the Exception of Evolutionists, who have Weird Ideas about a Powerless Word, even though it is a Useful Word: beCause it Describes HOW God Designed this World within his own Mind: beCause one Thought Evolved into another Thought, and one Idea Led to another Idea; but, the Crowning Work of God is a MAN, who was Created in his own Image, having a Spirit, Mind, and Body, which makes up a Living Soul, which is why Animals are also called Souls in the Bible: beCause God Created ALL of the Spirits for ALL Creatures, including Mankind, in the Beginning, before there was any Flesh on the Earth. Yes, he Created you and me and everyone else, in the Beginning, and Rested during the Seventh Day, which was a thousand Years Long: beCause one Day to God is like a thousand Years.

Therefore, the Great Question arises, "If we were Created in the Beginning, perhaps Billions of Years Ago, what have we been doing all of this Time?" Well, we have been Growing in Grace and in Knowledge, in as much as we have Yielded ourselves to the Holy Spirit of God, whereby some People have done very little Growing: beCause they have not been Feeding their Spirits with Spiritual Foods; but, their Minds have been Consumed with their Lusts for Vain Things, and their Longing Desires of the Flesh, which seem to never be Satisfied: beCause, just as long as the Spirit is not Satisfied, a Person cannot be Truly Satisfied. And those are just some of the Thoughts that God has Inspired me to Share with whomever has Spiritual Ears that can Hear.

Sincerely, the Colorful Peacock from Angel Ridge, King's Mountain, Kentucky

mathetes123 said:

If there was not a literal Adam, and we were created by the process of evolution, then sin must have been an evolutionary byproduct. How can God hold us responsible for sin?

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If the new (Orwellian) defintion of evolution is true...

'a change in allele frequency over a population' then there had to be many 'Adams' and they all had to sin at the same time.