Why do we do things not written in the Bible?

[Bro.T]

The thing is, there's a whole lot of misinformation someone can find on Google. The fact that one can find other people, even a lot of other people, making erroneous claims that you copied from doesn't mean anything other than that it being a common erroneous claim. You need to look to see if they offer evidence--and for those making claims of the variety you were offering, they inevitably don't offer evidence (because, again, there appears to not actually be evidence). And if we want to play the Google game, the funny thing is that I can also, via Google, find people saying that what you were claiming is commonly repeated incorrect information and is made up. (in truth, one can find just about anything claimed by someone via a Google search, showing again how weak of an appeal it is)

In my experience, statements like "this information can be googled" normally simply means "I don't actually have evidence, but I don't want to admit it."

peace in Jesus name

 

[Bro.T]

You can do a simple AI search, or perhaps you would accept that Romans used a cross to crucify people before Jesus, but you are missing the point. Because Romans used a cross to crucify people before Jesus does not mean that anyone who displays a cross is embracing paganism.

peace in Jesus name

 

[Akita Suggagaki]

Is anyone really following Jesus?

 

[Hentenza]

To celebrate Jesus' birth date on December 25th is not scripturally sound. If Jesus is the reason for the season, then why didn't He let us know when to celebrate his birth?

I think you are just mad because He wasn’t born on the Jewish sabbath so that everyone then would have to celebrate it like you legalists do.

Jesus commanded us in Luke 22:19, "And he took bread, and gave thanks, and break it, and gave unto them, saying, This is my body which is given for you: this do in remembrance of me." Remember Jesus prayer that this cup past from 2 or 3 times, because his death is much much more important.

He has to be born to die in the cross. The incarnation is one of the most important and glorious events in the history of mankind.

Maybe this will help.

“And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.”
‭‭John‬ ‭1‬:‭14‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

John 1:14 (NKJV) - And the Word became flesh and dwelt | YouVersion

And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.

bible.com

 

[MarkRohfrietsch]

To celebrate Jesus' birth date on December 25th is not scripturally sound. If Jesus is the reason for the season, then why didn't He let us know when to celebrate his birth? Jesus commanded us in Luke 22:19, "And he took bread, and gave thanks, and break it, and gave unto them, saying, This is my body which is given for you: this do in remembrance of me." Remember Jesus prayer that this cup past from 2 or 3 times, because his death is much much more important.

Our Lord cares about us remaining faithful, and repentant. Since God is eternal and therefore timeless, I earnestly believe that He will be pleased that we endeavor to pray, praise and give thanks however we do so, as long as it is done to the eternal glory of his name. Those who are trying to throw up legalistic stumbling blocks to cause the faithful to doubt the surety of their salvation through faithful lives, do so at the risk of their immortal souls. (that is a hint).

 

[Valletta]

peace in Jesus name

The Romans (pagans) used a cross to crucify people on. Jesus did not die on a cross to perpetuate paganism. If you first demonize a person or a group it is quite easy to come up with some story to support your belief. Hitler loved dogs, this or that person or organization loves dogs, then one could incorrectly conclude they are following Hitler. Realize that Christians, from Adventists to Catholics, are seeking Jesus and seeking the truth in theology. Now they are all sinners and can go astray, but assuming evil MOTIVES is wrong. Hatred can be taught by those who hate others, Jesus tells us to love one another.

 

[MarkRohfrietsch]

To celebrate Jesus' birth date on December 25th is not scripturally sound. If Jesus is the reason for the season, then why didn't He let us know when to celebrate his birth? Jesus commanded us in Luke 22:19, "And he took bread, and gave thanks, and break it, and gave unto them, saying, This is my body which is given for you: this do in remembrance of me." Remember Jesus prayer that this cup past from 2 or 3 times, because his death is much much more important.

Considering the actual date is unknown, and therefore deemed "adiaphora", continuing to argue about it is unbiblical; face it you have either lost a pointless argument in the face of pragmatic and reasonable Christians, or we don't actually care what you think, and are therefore content to love our Lord. BTW, we celebrate the Eucharist every Sunday and every Holy Day; from the book of Concord:

Article XXIV. Of the Mass​

ConfessionConfutationApology [Defense]
1 Falsely are our churches accused of abolishing the Mass; for the Mass is retained among
2 us, and celebrated with the highest reverence. Nearly all the usual ceremonies are also preserved, save that the parts sung in Latin are interspersed here and there with German hymns, which have been added

We have our own customs, and we practice these in great devotion. You do as you see fit, I don't care.

 

[Bro.T]

Considering the actual date is unknown, and therefore deemed "adiaphora", continuing to argue about it is unbiblical; face it you have either lost a pointless argument in the face of pragmatic and reasonable Christians, or we don't actually care what you think, and are therefore content to love our Lord. BTW, we celebrate the Eucharist every Sunday and every Holy Day; from the book of Concord:

Article XXIV. Of the Mass​

ConfessionConfutationApology [Defense]
1 Falsely are our churches accused of abolishing the Mass; for the Mass is retained among
2 us, and celebrated with the highest reverence. Nearly all the usual ceremonies are also preserved, save that the parts sung in Latin are interspersed here and there with German hymns, which have been added

We have our own customs, and we practice these in great devotion. You do as you see fit, I don't care.

In all do respect you don't have to reply, but Paul says in 2 Timothy 4: 2 preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.

 

[Bro.T]

The Romans (pagans) used a cross to crucify people on. Jesus did not die on a cross to perpetuate paganism. If you first demonize a person or a group it is quite easy to come up with some story to support your belief. Hitler loved dogs, this or that person or organization loves dogs, then one could incorrectly conclude they are following Hitler. Realize that Christians, from Adventists to Catholics, are seeking Jesus and seeking the truth in theology. Now they are all sinners and can go astray, but assuming evil MOTIVES is wrong. Hatred can be taught by those who hate others, Jesus tells us to love one another.

Paul says in 2 Timothy 2: 19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity. A man asked Jesus this very question, "...What good thing shall I do that I may have eternal life?", and Jesus replied, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments. (Matthew 19:16-19).

This was a direct answer to a direct question, which all of us will do well to take heed to. Anybody can claim to have faith, but actions speak louder than words. Faith and works go together and you can't have one without the other. "Here is the patience of the saints; here are they that keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus" (Revelation 14:12).

The commandments of God are not hard to keep (I John 5:3) and furthermore, they teach us love in the highest degree. If you love Jesus you will keep his commandments (St. John 14:15). You will not displease the Lord by: Worshipping other gods, having graven images, taking his name in vain, adhere to God's dietary laws in Lev.11ch, breaking his Sabbath day (which is Saturday not Sunday), or dishonoring your parents. On the other hand, if you love your neighbor as yourself you will not kill him, commit adultery with his spouse, steal from him, falsely accuse him, or covet anything of his. Stop committing fornication.

This is true love, and if obeyed how much better would our world be? This is why Jesus said that the two greatest commandments are loving the Lord with all your heart, soul, and mind; and loving your neighbor as yourself (Matthew 22:35-40). These two commandments are the foundation of the entire law. Many reject the law, but it is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good (Romans 7:12) even today.

 

[The Liturgist]

In all do respect you don't have to reply, but Paul says in 2 Timothy 4: 2 preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.

None of which precludes celebrating the Incarnation nine months from the Annunciation. If you don’t like that, since 1 Corinthians 11:2 and 2 Thessalonians 2:15 give authority to apostolic tradition, the only scriptural option left would be to join the Armenian Apostlic Church, which still celebrates the Nativity on the Feast of the Baptism of our Lord - January 6th, in accordance with the pre-4th century standard, but really, despite your protests to the contrary, both liturgical practices are equally scripturally valid, whereas not celebrating the Incarnation is not, according to St. Zecariah the Prophet

10 Sing and rejoice, O daughter of Zion: for, lo, I come, and I will dwell in the midst of thee, saith the Lord.

11 And many nations shall be joined to the Lord in that day, and shall be my people: and I will dwell in the midst of thee, and thou shalt know that the Lord of hosts hath sent me unto thee.

12 And the Lord shall inherit Judah his portion in the holy land, and shall choose Jerusalem again.

13 Be silent, O all flesh, before the Lord: for he is raised up out of his holy habitation.


and also St. Luke the Evangelist (chapters 1 and 2, the Magnificat and Song of Simeon, aka Nunc Dimitis).

 

[The Liturgist]

Paul says in 2 Timothy 2: 19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity. A man asked Jesus this very question, "...What good thing shall I do that I may have eternal life?", and Jesus replied, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments. (Matthew 19:16-19).

This was a direct answer to a direct question, which all of us will do well to take heed to. Anybody can claim to have faith, but actions speak louder than words. Faith and works go together and you can't have one without the other. "Here is the patience of the saints; here are they that keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus" (Revelation 14:12).

The commandments of God are not hard to keep (I John 5:3) and furthermore, they teach us love in the highest degree. If you love Jesus you will keep his commandments (St. John 14:15). You will not displease the Lord by: Worshipping other gods, having graven images, taking his name in vain, adhere to God's dietary laws in Lev.11ch, breaking his Sabbath day (which is Saturday not Sunday), or dishonoring your parents. On the other hand, if you love your neighbor as yourself you will not kill him, commit adultery with his spouse, steal from him, falsely accuse him, or covet anything of his. Stop committing fornication.

This is true love, and if obeyed how much better would our world be? This is why Jesus said that the two greatest commandments are loving the Lord with all your heart, soul, and mind; and loving your neighbor as yourself (Matthew 22:35-40). These two commandments are the foundation of the entire law. Many reject the law, but it is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good (Romans 7:12) even today.

None of this precludes celebrating the Nativity on December 25. Also most worship on the seventh day occurs in Roman Catholic churches, since every RCC priest is required if health permits to celebrate the Mass and Liturgy of the Hours on that day, and many faithful attend. And we Eastern and Oriental Orthodox honor the Sabbath continually, especially on the Seventh Day, through constant remembrance that God reposed in a tomb on the seventh day, after remaking us in His image.

So no, your hyper-Sabbatarian attacks upon tradition are not scriptural, but contra-scriptural (see the aformentioned scripture references in my previous posts, also Colossians 2:16, which precludes judging another Christian on their Sabbath observance, which you are doing in this thread to an extent that exceeds that even of some SDA members who attach a kind of vocation to criticizing everyone else, especially Roman Catholics, who on the basis of historically false writings, they, like you, attribute various evils to centuries before the Roman church did anything worthy of criticism.

 

[MarkRohfrietsch]

In all do respect you don't have to reply, but Paul says in 2 Timothy 4: 2 preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.

Totally out of context.

 

[MarkRohfrietsch]

None of this precludes celebrating the Nativity on December 25. Also most worship on the seventh day occurs in Roman Catholic churches, since every RCC priest is required if health permits to celebrate the Mass and Liturgy of the Hours on that day, and many faithful attend. And we Eastern and Oriental Orthodox honor the Sabbath continually, especially on the Seventh Day, through constant remembrance that God reposed in a tomb on the seventh day, after remaking us in His image.

So no, your hyper-Sabbatarian attacks upon tradition are not scriptural, but contra-scriptural (see the aformentioned scripture references in my previous posts, also Colossians 2:16, which precludes judging another Christian on their Sabbath observance, which you are doing in this thread to an extent that exceeds that even of some SDA members who attach a kind of vocation to criticizing everyone else, especially Roman Catholics, who on the basis of historically false writings, they, like you, attribute various evils to centuries before the Roman church did anything worthy of criticism.

Amen!!

 

[Bro.T]

Totally out of context.

Not at all.

 

[Bro.T]

All have sinned (broken the law...Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law (I John 3:4) and the wages of sin is death (Romans 6:23). When Jesus (the true Lamb of God) was sacrificed, he removed our past sins. If we accept Jesus as our sin offering, we are required to repent and get baptized IN THE NAME OF JESUS ("there is none other name under heaven given among men whereby we must be saved..."(Acts 4: 12). This is our last chance Brothers and Sister.

To repent means to turn from our sinful ways and start obeying God's law. The water baptism signifies the washing away of our past sins. After repenting and being baptized in the name of Jesus it would be foolish for us to turn around and willingly break God's commandments. If we make an honest mistake Jesus can help us, but if we sin willingly, after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, look out! "...there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, but a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation..." (Hebrews 10:26-27). When Jesus died only the sacrificial law was done away with, alone with Leviticus priesthood.

We still must obey all of God's laws and statues of conduct, from the ten commandments to the least commandment. We cannot choose to obey one without obeying the others. For instance, if it's still good to pay tithes (as many preach), then it is still good to obey God's dietary law (not eating pork, catfish, etc...Leviticus 11:1-47). Similarly, you cannot purposely trip a blind person (Leviticus 19:14) and claim to love your neighbor as yourself. Neither can you break God's Sabbath days (Leviticus 19:30) and claim to love God with all your heart, soul and mind.

Many fight to uphold man's traditional holidays (Sunday the 1st day as the Sabbath, Christmas, Easter and Halloween), but few are obeying God's Holy Days (Saturday the 7th day Sabbath, the Passover, Pentecost, etc...Leviticus 23:1-44). All of God's laws are still good and must be obeyed if we want eternal life. We might not be able to observe everything perfectly, but can fight a good fight. Paul said in (1 Cor. 9:24-27) (v.24) Know ye not that they which run in a race run all, but one receiveth the prize? So run, that ye may obtain. (v.25) And every man that striveth for the mastery is temperate in all things. Now they do it to obtain a corruptible crown: but we an incorruptible. Paul says that when you run in a race every body is running for a prize. But this prize that he is referring to is eternal life, that’s what he means by an incorruptible, he’s talking about an incorruptible body, a heavenly body. (v.26) I therefore so run, not as uncertainly, so fight, not as one that beateth the air: (v.27) But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.

You see Paul knew exactly what was going on that why he says he has to bring his body under subjection. Under subjection to what? To God’s Law, Paul knew that if he didn’t continue to keep Gods law that even after he had preached to many that he himself could still become a castaway. If we do this our prize awaits us at the end. "...if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments" (Matthew 19:17).

 

[The Liturgist]

Not at all.

Howso?

 

[The Liturgist]

Many fight to uphold man's traditional holidays (Sunday the 1st day as the Sabbath, Christmas, Easter and Halloween), but few are obeying God's Holy Days (Saturday the 7th day Sabbath, the Passover, Pentecost

This is completely false. All mainstream Christian churches celebrate Pascha, the Passover (that’s what Good Friday, Holy Saturday and the Feast of the Resurrection *are*

Likewise Pentecost is universally celebrated by mainstream Christians, for it was on that day, at a worship service on a Sunday morning at the Third Hour (approximately 9 AM, the third hour after sunrise) that the Holy Spirit descended on 200 followers of Christ in the Upper Room, according to Acts 2. And the basis for dating Pentecost is the same as it was in Judaism; seven weeks following Pascha.

The only thing that changed was the means of calculating the date of Pascha; after the Rabinnical Jews changed their calendar and the means they used to calculate it, Quartodecimianism, the practice of celebrating it on the 14th of Nissan regardless of the date on which it fell, became untenable, therefore, the early church adopted the other method, used by a majority of churches including those of Alexandria, Rome, and Antioch, which after the destruction of Jerusalem in 130 AD, became the three centers of the faith, which dated Pascha to the first Sunday following the vernal equinox (which corresponded to the timing of Pascha in 33 AD when Christ our True God rose from the dead.

Also the Feast of Tabernacles is celebrated on August the 6th, as the Feast of the Transfiguration, and at the Nativity. It would also be not unreasonable to say that Yom Kippur prefigured the Exaltation of the Cross on September 14.

Indeed the only Jewish holidays not carried over into Christianity are Purim and Chanukah.

Just because we celebrate these feasts in a manner that reflects the fulfilment of prophecy in Christ Jesus does not mean we reject them.

Of course, celebrating them is not a matter of celebration, for we are saved by grace through a living faith in Christ as defined in the Epistle of St. James the Just, by being grafted onto the Body of Christ (1 Corinthians), not as a result of individual righteousness; to suggest that is even possible is not only legalistic but Pelagian.