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Reason's I don't believe in hell,
1, There is absolutely no proof of it outside of religious texts.
Kinda confused about that...
Can someone who doesn't believe in Hell give me a simple list of reasons why?
Why did you not give Christian option? The NT.Oh? Which do you wish to follow
1Ki 18:21 Then Elijah drew near to all the people, and said, How long do ye halt between two opinions? if Jehovah be God, follow him; and if Baal, follow him. And the people answered him not a word.
Why did you not give Christian option? The NT.
Jesus warned us of Hell fire. It is you who errs, not Jesus.Ye do err my friend , not knowing the scriptures... Jesus validated the scriptures and there were no NT scriptures then, so he could only be referring to the OT scriptures then... couldn't he ...?
Matthew 22:29 Jesus answered and said unto them, Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God.
Why did you not give Christian option? The NT.
Oh? Which do you wish to follow
1Ki 18:21 Then Elijah drew near to all the people, and said, How long do ye halt between two opinions? if Jehovah be God, follow him; and if Baal, follow him. And the people answered him not a word.
Why did you not give Christian option? The NT.
Luk 16:31And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.
Kinda confused about that...
Can someone who doesn't believe in Hell give me a simple list of reasons why?
How about, because the concept doesn't appear in the Bible until the intertestamental period.
One would think that if God intended to torment people forever He might have said something about it earlier, no?
Jesus warned us of Hell fire. It is you who errs, not Jesus.
Those that reject the teaching of Christ concerning everlasting punishment reject...the teaching of Christ.
God bless.
Jesus says he is the END , so there can be no everlasting punishment ...
Jesus also says all creation will accept him as King and Jesus ' command is to Love ... thus all will Love in the end and be 'saved [translation to spirit] :-
Philippians 2:10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;
Revelation 5:13 [REB] And, every created thing which was in heaven, and upon the earth, and under the earth, and upon the sea, and, all the things in them, heard I, sayingUnto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb, be the blessing, and the honour, and the glory, and the dominion, unto the ages of ages!
Young's Literal Translation and the Rotherham Emphasised Bible expose the mistranslation that led to the myth of everlasting punishment , but Jesus own witness shows the mistranslation too ... the bible defeats the sinners who try to pretend that their sin is OK whereas other folks' sin is punished forever ...
but the fact is that the body fails under continual punishment , one cannot punish anything physical forever without it failing ... and there is no forever of time, time ends... as Jesus too states...
since Jesus does not contradict himself, it is the translation that is wrong, as indicated by common sense , science, and Jesus too...
thus my friend , you have been deceived by sinners and they were deceived by Satan [all too easily, as even the scripture proves you cannot be right] :-
1 John 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil
so let's have a look at this unestablished line :-
2Peter 2:4 Forif, God, spared not, messengers, when they sinned, but, to pits of gloom, consigning them, in the lowest hades, delivered them up to be kept, unto judgment
You are comparing the natural with the spiritual. Doesn't work. Don't you know that everything is going to be changed?how do the dead suffer ?
dead bodies are often cremated ... do you think that is hell fire? ... are they being punished ?
the spirit returns to God who gave it, so there is no punishment even possible :-
Ecclesiastes 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.
the soul [physical life] ends at death ... and is simply re-created by the spirit in a new viable body in resurrection ...
there simply is nothing to burn except the dead body and it really makes no difference, the dead know nothing in death, flames do not punish even the worst sinners in death ... suffering is only in life...
Ecclesiastes 9:5 ...the dead know not any thing...
Which one are you referring to?so we must consider what this SINGLE reference in the bible to hellfire is about , although we could justifiably ignore it because all things can only be established by TWO witnesses, not a single one :-
Are you saying that those who call others 'fool' are to be thrown into the rubbish?in scripture then the only 'hell fire' is 'gehenna' , which si the fires burning on the rubbish tip outside Jerusalem, in the valley of the son of Hinnom
Wrong on both counts. The Lake of Fire is presented as literal. And Jesus did not say all the wicked will repent.which may be a symbol of the lake of 'fire' , the final 'baptism of fire' of the most wicked and Satan when they repent as Jesus states they will...
Again, it does not say what you are saying.that is the 'fire' of conscience ... these men are so ashamed from finally ceasing to deny their sin after two lives of sin that they seek death, but God requires they stay alive and repent, continual suicide is not allowed by God, no-one dies a third death :-
Matthew 25 (NASB)essentially then the only 'hell fire' in scripture is the rubbish tip outside Jerusalem... 'gehenna' , the valley of the son of Hinnom
Rotherham and YLT weren't written by sinners following Satan, but the rest were? How are you authorized to proclaim this?Try a literal translation such as Rotherham [REB] or Young's [YLT] ... then you will not perhaps be so misled by fake translation by religious sinners with an axe to grind ...
Exact same wording for 'eternal life', NEVER ending. The NT stresses 'eternal'.Revelation 20:10 [REB] and, the Adversary that had been deceiving them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where were both the wild-beast and the false-prophet; and they shall be tormented, day and night, unto the ages of ages.
Matt 25:41 [REB] Then, will he say unto those also, on his left hand: Depart ye from me, accursed ones! Into the age-abiding fire, which hath been prepared for the adversary and his messengers
...
46 And, these, shall go away, into, age-abiding, correction, but, the righteous, into, age-abiding, life.
Rotherham and YLT weren't written by sinners following Satan, but the rest were? How are you authorized to proclaim this?
the authority , as I keep explaining , is the Holy Spirit of God Himself , but it is a personal authority , not public , and it is SEALED - no-one receives that authority until they stop sinning in water baptism :-
2 Timothy 2:19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.
and it isn't that there aren't problems with REB and YLT , simply that they are honest enough to translate 'olam' in hebrew and 'aionios' in Greek as referring to an age, an aeon, a finite time, not as eternity of time [which doesn't even exist]
thus even modern Physics reveals that there is no 'forever' of time that time begins and ends with the heavens and is even local withing space-time universes, not universal ... so infinity of time is impossible... Newton was proven mistaken in his assumption a long time ago... famous experiments though, well worth reading about, incredibly accurate and the results confirmed Einstein's theory very accurately indeed , Newton was mistaken about time because he ASSUMED , never tested his assumption...
Exact same wording for 'eternal life', NEVER ending. The NT stresses 'eternal'.
and exactly the same mistake, there is no eternal physical life in the new earth, the new heavens and new earth end to , because they were created...
Isaiah 65:17 For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.
as Jesus says , he is the beginning and the END , there is no eternity of life or time...
God is spirit, endless being , the ONLY endless being, creates universes that all end... creates life which ends, creates consciousnesses which all end...
God's life is not like ours, God doesn't eat or breed or do anything except 'create' , because the spirit creates time, has no time in which to act as spirit... creating is like dreaming , God having an illusion about what is not God as though something that is not God could be 'real' to God... but God only even 'knows ' but means of our knowing , and there si the limitation, in us, we can only know God as Love until be become spirit and then we cannot know anything [but in a sense we know everything, just cannot actively do anything , not even know, it is 'potential knowing' for when we stop denying our spirit we can know everything we can bear to know ...LOL?
so that is the authority , but one cannot prove anything to anyone but oneself by it... but one can tell which scripture is faked by sinners [if even interested by the nonsense of billions of sinners by then]
Your own translation is very interesting:
I think you misunderstand, I only use translations for sake of convincing a very few folks who are ready to TRY Love, give up abusing others with sin [such as capitalism with its greed and lies]
For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to Tartarus (tartaroo), delivering them to be bound in darkness where they await their judgment.
what you may not realise is that God judges justly and only on whether any life is perfectly Loving yet or not ...by His standard , not ours... the purpos of progressive salvation is to make life prgressively more impossible for the wicked so they see their mistake, because the pleasure of God is to turn the wicked around and He creates enough time in two universes only to do all His pleasure, turn around everyone, even Satan in the nd, prodigal son of God... Jesus confirms this , the whole creation will accept Jesus and thus Love, stop sinning against one another because it just makes life unbearable for everyone...
It must be terribly inconvenient to have to search through translations to find one that suits your belief system.
I od not need to personally, spirit baptism provides all Truth , but one cannot convey that ... ironic that any sinner can become a priests without spirit baptism and folks have faithin his deceptions by Satan simply because he dresses like the [failed] OT priesthood [LOL?] , yet because there is no uniform for Jesus and the saints, no-one believes them except saints ... ironic then , men elect to believe men who do not have the Truth, cannot know God or Jesus because they are still sinners, but disbelieve the saints because the saints are sure of what they say because God taught them Himself... quite amusing ,no? ... fortunately it matters not, God has no interest yet in men who just want to sin all this life , it is not time to deal with them yet , the wages of sin is death and they live grey lives not knowing what it is to Love without sin, how it gives life abundantly as Jesus said...
By your reasoning, the glorified saint will also have a body that will not endure the test of time.
bodies are CREATED , only the spirit is endless , and there is only one spirit , undivided, unchanging, without time [so without stream of consciousness]
Both saint and sinner are resurrected, strangertoo,
but did you notice that the saint is resurrected first , and there is no need to resurrect sinners except that they can become saints in the next life [and countless many do - Rev 7:9-10]
one will have eternal life because one is In Christ
but didn't you notice that IN THE END all accept Jesus as king , ALl are in Christ , all are perfected in Love [baptism of fire] , the last ones have baptism of fire n the lake , thenit is over, Jesus was the beginning, becomes the end for all.... he says so e.g. :-
Revelation 5:13 And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and honour, and glory, and power, be unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever.
Philippians 2:10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;
the other will have everlasting punishment, because they rejected life in and through Christ.
there is not enough time for everlasting punishment even if it could mean something rather than be meaningless and against masses of scripture and not even a valid translation, apart form accusing God of bizarrely unjust unloving lack of mercy on those who accept Jesus in the lake of fire... when God states over a hundred times that His mercy endures and also says that mercy rejoices AGAINST judgement... how could it be just or Loving to punish men who never even knew Christ existed for ever for their sins whilst many who sin all their lives in this world are 'let off' for just saying they believe the nonsense sinners teach about God ?
nay my friend, the LITERAL translations are in fact the better ones although a saint would never translate scripture anyway [has no need, he is taught directly by God and his task in life is mostly only to persuade a few folks to TRY Love so God can TEACH them Himself as Jesus promised [e.g, John 16:13] ... the danger of translations is demonstrated by the variety in them ... it makes all the difference between following God or Satan , just a single mistranslated word, and Satan knows that weakness in men , exploits it to first divide religion, then unite it in faith in him once the tribulations begin to bite and men start wondering if they might need saving ... easy salvation has been sold, even for money and for power of men, all down the ages... it reaches a climax soon now -Rev 13:3-4
Tell you what: I will come back to the response you gave to my post addressing your timeline of events, though it will be...drudgery.
well my friend you only reveal that you are complacent in your faith in sinners , but I am sorry, sinners CANNOT save you , they do not know God or Jesus, only fakes created by Satan's lies about God and Jesus... but seriously you should not find God's Truth a drudgery ... if you do not wish to discuss it openly then you are surely in the wrong place ...
so please understand that my only interest here is in persuading folks t Love , not sin in their lives, because that way they get baptised of the spirit and KNOW all the answers here from God directly ... the problem for all religious sinners is that they do not stop sinning first, but join this or that church of sinners and learn whatever Satan is selling that group...
so the smart thing to do is what scripture says, the first step is to stop sinning [water baptism with its commitment to depart from iniquity , the water splashing is just a dramatic symbolic ritual, saves no-one ] :-
2 Timothy 2:19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.
those that are his stop sinning , well worth reading and taking that in , why if one obeys Jesus and Loves folks it menas NOT abusing them with ANY sins against them... no sinner knows Jesus or God :-
1 John 3:6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.
1 John 5:18 We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.
1 John 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil;
1 John 4:8 He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.
so Love is the key to knowing ALL Truth of God from God [John 16:13], any sin prevents that -Ezekiel 18:24
why ? -Jesus explains :-
John 8:34 Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.
sin is mostly habitual , it becomes part of one's life to live in denial of conscience, heart of Love, spirit, and mind... all of which told one when one sinned, but got DENIED ... and so denial got easier and facing the shame of sin in repentance got harder...
but the ONLY wages of sin is death to remove sin [Rom 6:7] , far easier than grace, but one still has to perfect Love later ,and one has to put up with more delay in knowing Jesus and God truly insead of the false images in religion of sinners under Satan...
The absolute butchering and hodge-podge pasting of the sequence of events is easily enough addressed, but, unless one will recognize they have destroyed context, one will continue in this pattern.
it is indeed impossible to include context i all the quotes here, one can only hope folks will read every word of God for themselves BEFORE posting here [but it is in vain one hopes that]
since you have made errors of translation, I would suggest dealing with one point at a time... there is no rush ...
P1LGR1M;61732471]Your own translation is very interesting:
I think you misunderstand, I only use translations for sake of convincing a very few folks who are ready to TRY Love, give up abusing others with sin [such as capitalism with its greed and lies]
what you may not realise is that God judges justly and only on whether any life is perfectly Loving yet or not ...
what you may not realise is that God judges justly and only on whether any life is perfectly Loving yet or not ...
by His standard , not ours...
the purpos of progressive salvation is to make life prgressively more impossible for the wicked so they see their mistake,
because the pleasure of God is to turn the wicked around and He creates enough time in two universes only to do all His pleasure,
turn around everyone, even Satan in the nd, prodigal son of God...
Jesus confirms this , the whole creation will accept Jesus and thus Love, stop sinning against one another because it just makes life unbearable for everyone...
I od not need to personally, spirit baptism provides all Truth , but one cannot convey that ...
ironic that any sinner can become a priests without spirit baptism and folks have faithin his deceptions by Satan simply because he dresses like the [failed] OT priesthood [LOL?] ,
yet because there is no uniform for Jesus and the saints, no-one believes them except saints ... ironic then , men elect to believe men who do not have the Truth, cannot know God or Jesus because they are still sinners, but disbelieve the saints because the saints are sure of what they say because God taught them Himself... quite amusing ,no?
... fortunately it matters not, God has no interest yet in men who just want to sin all this life ,
because the pleasure of God is to turn the wicked around and He creates enough time in two universes only to do all His pleasure,
it is not time to deal with them yet , the wages of sin is death and they live grey lives not knowing what it is to Love without sin, how it gives life abundantly as Jesus said...
it is not time to deal with them yet , the wages of sin is death and they live grey lives not knowing what it is to Love without sin, how it gives life abundantly as Jesus said...
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