dollarsbill
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"For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord" Romans 6:23I'm a 'literalist'. That's the only way the Bible makes sense.
God has no problem keeping His Word, the Bible, in tact.Of coarse I admit it, when it comes to sourcing the bible. Otherwise I might subscribe to "pagan" belief that John wrote
John", or the Apostle John and the Prophet John are the same person.
People throw the word "Pagan" around as if it were a religion. It simply meant "Uneducated" or "Bumpkin".
There are two great periods of paganism in Christianity. The Black death that wiped out the centers of learning was one. The second will remain my secret lest I get thrown off the board
You misunderstood.Well at least you can admit you aren't sure. That's an admirable quality!
God's people die but they still exist. And so, cease to exist is totally erroneous."For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord" Romans 6:23
"For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten so that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life." John 3:16
Technically, Tim isn't a heretic (nor is anyone else in this thread so far as I can tell):
2089 Incredulity is the neglect of revealed truth or the willful refusal to assent to it. "Heresy is the obstinate post-baptismal denial of some truth which must be believed with divine and catholic faith, or it is likewise an obstinate doubt concerning the same; apostasy is the total repudiation of the Christian faith; schism is the refusal of submission to the Roman Pontiff or of communion with the members of the Church subject to him. (CCC)
He would be schismatic, or possibly apostate depending on how you define 'the Christian faith'.
Again, I will not tell you what to believe.
I responded to your question as why I didn't believe it.
While I take comfort that serious bible students will present a futile audience for you, your efforts are not completely without effect, and I am sure you know that. There will be those, just as on atheist forums, that will readily embrace anything that sounds somewhat reasonable as an excuse for sin. And while you may not see a diminshed view of God's word as sin, I do.I find it futile to share what I know---
So you bought your faith?a person can only learn if they wish to learn the subject to begin with. If you wish to know what I know, you would have to spend your own money and time to receive the education to be convinced that it has any validity.
Fair enough. I will warn you, though, that you will simply be presenting, in my view, the opinions of men. And usually, godless men. Men who have thier own agendas and knowlewdge that allows them to do that which is right in their own eyes.So you see, I am not going to make any attempts to convince you about the origins of the bible, though I may state some knowledge if it clarifies why I don't believe something. Fair enough?
Only One Man can be said to have divinity, and that is Jesus Christ.Now, I may not believe in the divinity of the men who selected the books for your anthology,
Look, don't tell me that, Soulgazer: if you were so neutral you would not be here.
I asked you to keep these threads short so I could anser your objections. I won't read beyond the first few lines, and I will only respond to that.I already have, in my view, but, nevertheless, I will focus on this central issue.
But first, I will address these statements, and then toward the end provide the scriptural basis for what seems to sound like a silly position.
So bear with me, lol.
But you are speaking of temporal death, Timothew. Consider, those you have known that have died...are they gone forever?
Do you not believe that those you believe were saved that have passed are with the Lord, and those that you are not sure about are in Hades? Awaiting judgment?
Huh? I thought only God can do that.I can look back several billion years.
43
47 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life.
Not...will have, but has everlasting life.
(deleted the rest of the post as promised)
After you have proven that the dead are not really dead, then I will concede the point. If you want we can go to a morgue and look at some dead bodies. Then you will have to concede the point that dead people are not conscious.(I can't believe we are even having a disagreement on thisIf you like, but the smilies are not necessary.
In discussion we have a great opportunity to train ourselves in self-control. Really. The intent focus not to let people upset you will result in...people not upsetting you. Leaving you to respond in a more rational and reasonable way which hopefully will not end the conversation.
It is easy to turn a discussion into a slugfest, but what is gained? Either one truly wants to discuss scripture or they do not.
As for the jaw, take a handkerchief, wrap it worund your head so that...
Just kidding. Look, there are some points that have to be settled. For now, I suggest we focus on the Life of the believer as opposed to the death which all men are born with. If we can make a conclusion on this, the discussion may progress.
God bless.
So much for the claim "I am a literalist"God's people die but they still exist. And so, cease to exist is totally erroneous.
Since the Bible proclaimed itself "the word of God".Since when is reverence for the Bible a prerequisite to be a Christian?
and I may not believe in the accuracy of the words or even verses, however I believe that thematically it is accurate enough for one to find "the perfect man" within.
Whereas you on the surface seem to find God limited to Justice,
I have learned that I can fully agree with ancient Christian sources that Justice is the product of wisdom without love. Mercy is the product of Love and wisdom without justice.
Mercy is the product of Love and wisdom without justice.
Therefore one may believe in a just God, like the Muslems or the Jews or the alternative, a merciful God as portrayed, at least thematically, by many Christian scriptures.
Have you considered the mercy of God to those babies, that they did not grow up worshiping a false god like their murderers?
So much for the false claim that death means 'cease to exist'.So much for the claim "I am a literalist"
I considered it--- but that would presuppose that God is somehow fickle. That it can be ok to kill babies, and then not ok to kill babies. When is it going to be ok again?But this in itself limits that which God's word teaches.
In the Old Testament, knowledge is limited, just as is the case with children. You tell a child not to talk to strangers, but you don't fully inform the child of all of the evil that can arise from it, right?
Under the First Covenant, the Covenant of Law, Israel was given basic instruction that would result in fulfilling the desire result of loving God and one's neighbor (which you constantly advocate the latter but I have not seen you mention the former, perhaps I have missed this).
In the New Testament, instruction for those under the New Covenant, who are perfect (which concerns positional sanctification) as to how they are to seek to perfect themselves (which refers to progressive sanctification)...is speaking of two entirely different things.
Believers are made perfect forever, but as they grow in Christ they are being conformed to the image of Christ, therefore are being made perfect.
Not sure how you conclude this: I try not to give standard answers, for, as you have said yourself most of the people I talk to have already heard that particular facet of God's character. I do not focus solely on one aspect, for to do this is to present a limited view.
Justice, grace, mercy, judgment, chatisement...all of the number of things we could discuss have to all end in a balanced conclusion or we end up not relaying the God of the Bible.
A god that is strictly all grace and mercy doesn't do it. One that is all judgment, as some view God in the Old Testament, won't cut it. Usually when one extreme or the other is reached, it is easy to conclude there is not a balance af all that is said of God in scripture.
That's great. Charismatics can agree with the practice of Montanism, does that make it valid?
And where in the world, or better, why in the world, would you think this...
...represents the God of the Bible?
Justice has been served...on the person of Christ at Calvary. God has not failed to carry out justice, for sin's penalty has been fully exacted on His person.
That we do not receive justice (for we would all be erased from the earth if we did) does not negate that fact.
This is to say that the God of the Old Testament was not just. This view is based upon a faulty understanding of being just.
You mentioned in another post you threatened your son with a punishment that was not even real. I could view this as both lying to your son and mental abuse. That your actions were unjust.
You threatened something you never intended to carry out.
At least the God of scripture meant what He said.
And if that does not bring perspective to your view, I don't know what will.
Well, that is an opposing perspective, and while because I know God to be just in His dealings with man and cannot view judgment as unjust, I can appreciate an different perspective.
But does your repartee indicate you did not give my point consideration?
Okay, going to have to get out of here soon, so, back to the rest of your other post...
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