Why do SDA preach

Major1 said:

Why are we having this discussion.

Exodus 31:13-14 ........
"Say to the Israelites, 'You must observe my Sabbaths. This will be a sign between me and you for the generations to come, so you may know that I am the LORD, who makes you holy. 14"'Observe the Sabbath, because it is holy to you. Anyone who desecrates it is to be put to death; those who do any work on that day must be cut off from their people.

Simply because those laws were given to the ISRAELITES, the parents of the JEWS!

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I guess we were having this discussion because of what you said in the post you made that I was quoting from in post # 410 linked that you were keeping the Sabbath better than Sabbath keepers by not keeping the Sabbath. You may want to consider though that under the new covenant scriptures Gods' true ISRAEL is no longer those who are born of the flesh of the seed of Abraham (see Romans 9:6-8; Galatians 3:27-28; Romans 3:27-28 but are now all those who through faith in God's new covenant promise *Hebrews 8:10-12 from Jeremiah 31:31-34 and Ezekiel 36:24-27 are now born of the Spirit *John 3:3-7; 1 John 3:6-9 by believing and following what God's Word says *John 3:16; John 10:26-27; Matthew 7:21-23. This means that as God's true Israel all of God's Word and promises are written for our admonition upon who the ends of the world have come *1 Corinthians 10:11. We should also consider that according to Jesus the Sabbath was made for all mankind not the Jew *Mark 2:27. You also may want to consider that according to the scriptures there was no Jew; no Israel, no Moses, no sin, and no plan of salvation was given because there was nothing to be saved from when God made the Sabbath for all mankind *Genesis 2:1-3. So according to your claims here that Gods' Sabbath was only given to God's Israel in the old covenant because everyone of God's 10 commandments are repeated in the new covenant as a requirement for Christian living (scripture support here) and God's Israel in the new covenant is not longer those born of the flesh of the seed of Abraham but all those who through faith in God's Word have been born of the Spirit *John 3:3-7; 1 John 3:6-9.

Hope this is helpful.

Major1 said:

Brother "Albion". Have you noticed that Everyone says that the Bible is the Word of God...........
until it does not agree with what they want it to say.?????????

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Is this including you when you say everyone? You have not posted any scripture that disagrees with the scriptures that have been shared with you from what I can see if we are being honest.

Major1 said:

Is there a problem with using the Scriptures to answer any question or is it only when that Scripture does not agree with what you want it to say.

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What scripture have you provided that disagrees with the scriptures everyone is sharing with you? Keep in mind we should be careful because scripture does not contradict scripture. Therefore if what we believe a scripture is saying seems to be in contradiction to other scripture, then perhaps it is your interpretation of the scriptures that might be in error. This should be a red flag to all of us according to the scriptures.

Something to pray about.

Major1 said:

Do I believe the words of Jesus?
YES I DO!

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If you say you believe the words of Jesus in Matthew 15:3-9 that if we follow man-made teachings and traditions that break the commandments of God we are not worshiping God then if someone knowingly breaks God's 4th commandment *Exodus 20:8-11 in order to follow the man-made teaching of Sunday worship in place of Gods' 4th commandment than are you worshiping God according to the words of Jesus in Matthew 15:3-9 according to the scriptures?

Major1 said:

You are so focused on the Law keeping - DO you believe that Jesus Christ DID NOT KEEP THE SABBATH?????

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Not really. I am very focused however on what God's Word says and it seems you are finding this conversation a little difficult which is not the purpose of my discussion with you. I am only sharing God's Word with you that seems to disagree with what your teachings and asking questions for clarity so I do not misunderstand what your trying to say here.

Major1 said:

Healing is one of those things which are not permitted on the Sabbath.

The gospels record several instances when Jesus healed a person on the Sabbath:
1. Simon Peter’s mother-in-law in Peter’s home (Mark 1:29–31).
2. A man with a withered hand in the synagogue (Mark 3:1–6).
3. A man born blind in Jerusalem (John 9:1–16).
4. A crippled woman in a synagogue (Luke 13:10–17).
5. A man with dropsy at a Pharisee’s house (Luke 14:1–6).
6. A demon-possessed man in Capernaum (Mark 1:21–28).
7. A lame man by the pool of Bethesda (John 5:1–18).

The answer of course is that Jesus did not break the Sabbath, as outlined by God under the Old Covenant. As He publicly stated, “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them” (Matthew 5:17).

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Well you have posted scripture showing that Jesus was healing on the Sabbath. How is that relevant to our conversation here. Who said healing was not permitted on the Sabbath? Certainly not Jesus who was the Lord and creator of the Sabbath *Matthew 12:1-12. Jesus as the Lord and creator of the Sabbath came to teach us that it is lawful to heal and do good on the Sabbath day. I think he would no best don't you?

Major1 said:

The Pharisees had so conflated their own standard of holiness with God’s that they accused Jesus of breaking the Sabbath law. They were furious over Jesus’ actions, yet it was only their Sabbath law He did not keep. Jesus kept God’s law, and He had done nothing to violate the Sabbath. Since that is the case......how can Christian today be accused of not keeping the Sabbath????

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As posted earlier according to the scriptures if we break anyone of God's 10 commandments *James 2:10-11 we stand guilty before God of sin *1 John 3:4. If any of us continue living in a life of known unrepentant sin once we have been given a knowledge of the truth of God's Word *Acts of the Apostles 17:30-31; James 4:17 and reject it, is a pretty BIG deal in God's eyes because we will be in danger of the judgement (see Hebrews 10:26-31). Our opinions do not really matter much here. Only God's Word is true and we should believe and follow them according to Romans 3:4 and Acts of the Apostles 5:29. There is not one scripture in all of God's Word that says Gods' 4th commandment has now been abolished and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a Holy day of rest. This is a man-made teaching and tradition that has led many to break God's 4th commandment in favor of man-made teachings. Jesus warns us in Matthew 15:3-9 that if we follow man-made teachings and traditions that break the commandments of God we are not worshiping God. Is not what Jesus and the scriptures say here true in your view?

Take Care

MMXX said:

Scripture is not wrong. But scripture can be used wrongly. Someone can easily take something Jesus said, and misapply it. Someone could say when Jesus said love your neighbor, that meant it's okay to make love to your neighbor. Some atheists love use scripture that way. God's Word gets misinterpreted, misapplied and misused all the time. I remember an LDS commercial that used Jesus saying "other sheep will hear my voice" (John 10:16) to back up their claim that Jesus visited ancient America.

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Brian this is something you will need to prove don't you think rather than making accusations and claims you have not proven. I asked you many times now what is it in the scriptures I have shared with you that you do not believe. All I hear is silence and no response. Yet it answers my question to you as you cannot tell me what is it from the scriptures shared with you that you disagree with.

Something to pray about.

Major1 said:

You do realize that that statement is part of building a straw man. It is not the issue. The New Testament makes that a moot point because it says it doesn't matter what day you worship on.

Romans 14:5
"One man regards one day above another, another regards every day alike. Let each man be fully convinced in his own mind."

Galatians 4:9-11 "But now that you have come to know God, or rather to be known by God, how is it that you turn back again to the weak and worthless elemental things, to which you desire to be enslaved all over again? You observe days and months and seasons and years. I fear for you, that perhaps I have labored over you in vain."

Colossians 2:16-17 "Therefore let no one act as your judge in regard to food or drink or in respect to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath day--things which are a mere shadow of what is to come; but the substance belongs to Christ."

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The question I asked you was where is the scripture that says God's 4th commandment has now been abolished and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a holy day of rest? It certainly does not say this in the scriptures you have quoted above does it?

Romans 14:5 is not even talking about the Sabbath and there is no mention of it in the entire chapter. It is talking about eating and not eating on days the men esteem over other days. Keep in mind that the things that men esteem according to the scriptures is an abomination in God's eyes *Luke 16:15

Galatians 4:9-11 is talking to gentiles believers returning to paganism or the works of the law for salvation. So not relevant here and there is no mention of not keeping the Sabbath there at all and keeping Sunday as a holy day of rest.

Colossians 2:16-17 is as posted earlier that I have not received a response from you. According to the scriptures, if you look at the context of Colossians 2:16 you will see that Colossians 2:16 is not talking about the "seventh day" Sabbath of God's 4th commandment. It is talking about the sabbaths or sabbath days (Genitive neuter plural in the Greek) not singular while the scripture context is to the meat and drink offerings and new moons and sabbaths (plural) in the Feast days which is the scripture context. According to the scriptures there were many different types of sabbaths in the old covenant. In the annual Feast days for example that Colossians 2:16 is talking about there were many sabbaths that were linked directly to certain Feasts and would fall on any day of the week depending on the yearly cycle. These Feast day sabbaths (not Gods 4th commandment) included for example; (1) Feast of Unleavened Bread (first and last day) *Leviticus 23:6-8 (2) Feast of Trumpets *Leviticus 23:24-25 (3) Day of Atonement *Leviticus 23:27-32 (4) Feast of Booths *Leviticus 23:34-36 (5) Feast of First Fruits *Leviticus 23:39 (6) Feast days of Holy convocation of no work (sabbaton Colossians 2:16 *Leviticus 23:7-8; 21;24; 27; 35-36. So context of Colossians 2:16 is to the Sabbaths in the annual Feast days being a "shadow of things to come" Colossians 2:17 not God's 4th commandment of the 10 commandments because God's 4th commandment does not point forward to things to come but backwards to the finished work of creation and God as the creator of heaven and earth as a memorial of creation - "Remember" the Sabbath day to keep it holy. Are you interested in a detailed discussion on Colossians 2:16-17? Do you know what Paul scriptures Paul is quoting from ni the old covenant and what they refer to in the new covenant? Happy to discuss more detail here if your interested.

So you have no scripture that says God's 4th commandment has now been abolished and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a holy day of rest now do you.

Hope this is helpful.

Major1 said:

ABRAHAM!

I mean NO disrepect to anyone but.....are you so ingrafted into the SDA doctrine that the Bible has come to mean nothing to you?????

Deuteronomy 5:2-3 says
"The Lord our God made a covenant with us at Horeb. The Lord did not make this covenant with our fathers, but with us, with all those of us alive here today."

Nehemiah 9:13-14 says:
"You came down on Mount Sinai; you spoke to them from heaven. You gave them regulations and laws that are just and right, and decrees and commands that are good. You made known to them your holy sabbath and gave them commands, decrees and laws through your servant Moses." .

You do not hear that the righteous Patriarchs, Abraham, Isaac, or Jacob kept the Sabbath. There is a conspicuous silence for 2,500 years after the Fall of man. It is not until after the redemption of God's people Israel out of Egypt when they are safely on the other side of the Red Sea that you read in the Book of Exodus that the Sabbath is mentioned again. (Exodus 16:22-30). Abraham was given commandments and ordinances, but the Sabbath is never mentioned as one of them.

Why does that not bother you????

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You ignored the text about Abraham, please answer the question.

LoveGodsWord said:

For me I respectfully disagree with this post, but allow me to explain why as I do not think your post here answers my earlier questions to you. As posted earlier to someone else and you may not have been aware of that post. If Isaiah 66:22-23 was used in isolation to the rest of the bible I think you might have an argument but realistically it is not used in isolation to the rest of the bible.

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I stated that I don't think this text is is helpful to the argument, because you treat the New Moon and Sabbath two different ways. So in other words, you cannot say that anything we will do in the new earth you will do now.

And you respond it is not helpful in isolation. But if it is not helpful in isolation, and you have to use other texts anyway, then that is upholding the point. This text doesn't do much for your argument.

And while Bob has explained the discordant elements by indicating this was one possible outcome, in a conditional prophecy dependent on obedience, that just further points out how it is not a reliable text to use for this argument.

tall73 said:

I stated that I don't think this text is is helpful to the argument, because you treat the New Moon and Sabbath two different ways. So in other words, you cannot say that anything we will do in the new earth you will do now.

And you respond it is not helpful in isolation. But if it is not helpful in isolation, and you have to use other texts anyway, then that is upholding the point. This text doesn't do much for your argument.

And while Bob has explained the discordant elements by indicating this was one possible outcome, in a conditional prophecy dependent on obedience, that just further points out how it is not a reliable text to use for this argument.

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I just told you I do not treat the new moon and the Sabbath in different ways in regards to Isaiah 66:22-23. I rarely use the scripture. The only time I used it with Exodus 31:16 when showing that the Sabbath is a perpetual covenant. You have not considered this in your discussions. If the everlasting Sabbath covenant was given in the old earth then of course it can be used to justify the Sabbath being continued in the new earth. You did not read the post you are responding to did you.

LoveGodsWord said:

Brian this is something you will need to prove don't you think rather than making accusations and claims you have not proven. I asked you many times now what is it in the scriptures I have shared with you that you do not believe. All I hear is silence and no response. Yet it answers my question to you as you cannot tell me what is it from the scriptures shared with you that you disagree with.

Something to pray about.

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I'm not disagreeing with scripture, I'm disagreeing with your occlusions. Is this some sort of game where you keep directing me to scripture verses you used, instead of the conclusions you came up with?

MMXX said:

I'm not disagreeing with scripture, I'm disagreeing with your occlusions. Is this some sort of game where you keep directing me to scripture verses you used, instead of the conclusions you came up with?

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Ok then Brian, your free to believe as you wish. That would be between you and God. Are you comfortable not even being able to tell me what it is that you disagree with in regards to the scriptures shared with you and why only that you disagree without knowing why?

LoveGodsWord said:

I just told you I do not treat the new moon and the Sabbath in different ways in regards to Isaiah 66:22-23.I rarely use the scripture. The only time I used it with Exodus 31:16 when showing that the Sabbath is a perpetual covenant. You have not considered this in your discussions. You did not read the post you are responding to did you.

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You just edited again while I was responding.

Of course I read it. But you said you don't keep one and you do the other because of other texts which you then spelled out.

That makes the point. You are really basing your argument on other texts, not Isaiah 66.

tall73 said:

You just edited again while I was responding.

Of course I read it. But you said you don't keep one and you do the other because of other texts which you then spelled out.

That makes the point. You are really basing your argument on other texts, not Isaiah 66.

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I did not edit anything out or change the original post before you posted so please do not pretend that I have.

1. The Sabbath is an everlasting covenant according to the scriptures and
2. Gods 4th commandment of the 10 commandments that give us the knowledge of what sin is when broken *Romans 3:20.

The new moons on the other hand are neither therefore cannot be treated in the same way according to the scriptures.

LoveGodsWord said:

One (the Sabbath) is an everlasting covenant according to the scriptures and Gods 4th commandment of the 10 commandments, the new moons are neither therefore cannot be treated in the same way according to the scriptures.

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So now you admit you don't treat them the same, and this is based on other texts. Which was my point. Isaiah 66 is not good for making points in this discussion.

tall73 said:

So now you admit you don't treat them the same, and this is based on other texts. Which was my point.

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Please read post # 574 linked. Are the new moons an everlasting covenant and one of God's 10 commandments in your view? I do not think you have thought your argument through to be honest. As posted earlier I do not use Isaiah 66:22-23 if it is not used with Exodus 31:16 to show that the Sabbath is an everlasting covenant and being an everlasting covenant and one of God's 10 commandments according to the scriptures puts it in a different place to new moons that are neither under the new covenant. Being an everlasting covenant given to God's people in the old earth why cannot Isaiah 66:22-23 be used to prove the Sabbath now when the covenant is given now? This is what your not considering in your discussion. The everlasting Sabbath covenant given now proves the Sabbath for now. Isaiah 66:22-23 only shows it is being continued to be kept in the new earth in fulfillment of Exodus 31:16.

LoveGodsWord said:

It is not what I said at all please read post # 574 linked. Are the new moons an
everlasting covenant and one of God's 10 commandments in your view? I do not think you have thought your argument through to be honest. As posted earlier I do not use Isaiah 66:22-23 if it is not used with Exodus 31:16 to show that the Sabbath is an everlasting covenant and being an everlasting covenant and one of God's 10 commandments according to the scriptures puts it in a different place to new moons that are neither under the new covenant. This is what your not considering in your discussion.

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I say Isaiah 66 is not a good text to use. You say you only use it with other texts. That is the point.

I know you can't see it. But the last time you couldn't see something we wasted probably 40 pages spelling it out.

If you think the Sabbath and new moon are different (and they are), it is because of OTHER texts. That is why we can skip Isaiah 66 and go to the other texts. There is nothing compelling to people on the other side of the argument by pointing to a text that references something you don't do, apart from its other interpretive challenges due to other elements.

LoveGodsWord said:

Brian when we are talking about all Christianity which is what our discussion has been about there is no such thing as the majority of the remnant.

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You've still been unclear is to who you think the remint is.

LoveGodsWord said:

There you go telling me again what I do not believe or have never said in response to the scriptures that have been shared with you.

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There you go again saying to respond to the scripture verses you posted, instead of how you are interpreting them.

LoveGodsWord said:

It is true that there are many false teachers on Christianity in the world today and as discussed earlier at one consensus over 40,000 different denominations of Christianity were recorded and growing in fulfillment of the very Words of Jesus (Matthew 24:24; 2 Peter 2:1 etc). Why do you feel that that is an argument that there is no true Church and that there is no correct and true understanding of the scriptures? How then Brian are you going to know if your not deceived in following the false teachings of the majority when the many come up to Jesus at the second coming and say Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in your name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity (sin). According to Jesus only those who do the will the will of God will enter the kingdom of heaven. The many will not enter into God's Kingdom *Matthew 7:21-23. The only way therefore we can know God's will and the truth of God's Word is to seek Jesus through His Word asking God to be our guide and teacher. According to God's promises in the new covenant God promises to be our guide and teacher through His Spirit *Hebrews 8:11; John 14:26; John 16:13; John 7:17; John 8:31-36; 1 John 2:27. It is true however according to the words of Jesus that men love darkness rather then light because their deeds are evil
and everyone that does evil hates the light (Gods Word in the lamp unto my feet and a light unto my path - Psalms 119:105) lest their deeds are reproved. But the good news is that he that comes to the light (Gods' Word) we can see that our deeds are wrought in God or not. He that believes and follows Gods' Word is not condemned according to the scriptures but he that believes not is condemned already because he has not believe in the name of the old begotten Son of God. *John 3:18-21

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We are supposed to test what we are taught by reading God's Word, to see if what is being taught aligns with God's Word. But according to you, there is no correct and true understanding of the scriptures.

LoveGodsWord said:

If our lamp has gone (Psalms 119:172) out how can we find our way when the road is dark and narrow? According to the scriptures the five foolish virgins found this out only too late when the bridegrooms call to go out and meet the bridegrooms call was given when they were all sleeping.

Something we should all pray about.

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Well going by what you're saying, that "there is no true Church [teaching] and that there is no correct and true understanding of the scriptures", it sounds like there's no hope for you or me.

tall73 said:

I say Isaiah 66 is not a good text to use. You say you only use it with other texts. That is the point.

I know you can't see it. But the last time you couldn't see something we wasted probably 40 pages spelling it out.

If you think the Sabbath and new moon are different (and they are), it is because of OTHER texts. That is why we can skip Isaiah 66 and go to the other texts. There is nothing compelling to people on the other side of the argument by pointing to a text that references something you don't do, and has elements that you agree are not part of the new covenant.

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I do understand what your trying to say so please do not pretend that I do not. I am saying that Isaiah 66:22-23 is a great text to use as long as we understand Exodus 31:16 that the Sabbath is an everlasting covenant. My point is only that it is the best way to use it because understanding that the Sabbath is an everlasting covenant given here and applied now to God's people Isaiah 66:22-23 proves that the Sabbath is a requirement here and now and not something to be waited for in the new earth. It is an everlasting covenant here and now and Isaiah 66:22-23 proves Exodus 31:16 that the sabbath will be continued to be kept in the new earth. The Sabbath of course in the new covenant (now) is one of God's 10 commandments that give us the knowledge of what sin is when broken *Romans 3:20.

LoveGodsWord said:

I do understand what your trying to say so please do not pretend that I do not.

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You are saying that you have to use other texts. Which makes the point.

I was noting to someone else that it is not the best text to use. You then come along and say you disagree, and note that you have to use another text to make a point that is in the other text.

You said you treat the new moon and Sabbath the same in the text. Then said you can't treat them the same because they are not the same. This strand of the conversation is about as helpful as using Isaiah 66 as a Sabbath proof text, which is to say not very.

I am saying I do not agree with what you have posted because Isaiah 66:22-23 proves the Sabbath is an everlasting covenant as shown in Exodus 31:16..

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So then which of the two texts, Isaiah 66, or Exodus 31 speaks of the Sabbath as an everlasting covenant?

Exo 31:16 Therefore the people of Israel shall keep the Sabbath, observing the Sabbath throughout their generations, as a covenant forever.

Isa 66:23 From new moon to new moon, and from Sabbath to Sabbath, all flesh shall come to worship before me, declares the LORD.

LoveGodsWord said:

Ok then Brian, your free to believe as you wish. That would be between you and God. Are you comfortable not even being able to tell me what it is that you disagree with in regards to the scriptures shared with you and why only that you disagree without knowing why?

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I'm not in disagreement with scripture, I've been responding to what you have written using your own words.

Are you saying I should ignore everything you say, and just read the scripture verses you post? Like I should read your lengthy post #580 as:

LoveGodsWord said:

Matthew 24:24; 2 Peter 2:1 Matthew 7:21-23. Hebrews 8:11; John 14:26; John 16:13; John 7:17; John 8:31-36; 1 John 2:27. Psalms 119:105 John 3:18-21 Psalms 119:172

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Is this how all your posts should be edited. Cutting out everything you say, and just read the scripture verses you share?