Why do people sometimes use 'fundamentalist' in a negative connotation?

[Syckological]

Most of the people that are saved are NOT fundamentalist on this Earth today. Fantastically wonderful work is being done by non-fundamentalist Christians in all sorts of denominations. My favorite writer outside the Bible, CS Lewis was not a fundamentalist. If you think that I claim that salvation is only by my definition I have left you with the wrong impression. My wife is a member of the Roman "Catholic" Church and she is very much a True Christian. She happens to be wrong on several minor areas, then again she criticizes her own RC Church far more bitterly and often than I do. Why she reamins in the RC is not clear to me after 30 years, but the point is, I do not have a narrow view of who is saved.

I do have a narrow view of Truth, as a Noun, Verb, Adjective.... but the Persons that are Truth can do as they please and not consult me about it. I am the slave of Christ, not the other way around. My conscience is bound primarily by the pages of Scripture, and I try not to lean upon my own understanding (of course, I often fail, and my own sin obscures me from seing the Truth of Scripture with much clarity-but I try, well, I try a little sometimes).

As to mocking, it was you who started it by mocking my grammar. English being my second language, I take exception now to your bigoted ways. I do not need to confine myself to the Queen's English. As a black hispanick, I can use ebonics or Hisponics and who are you to judge my immigrant ways? Since you advocate we all believe whatever we wish, who are you to judge my grammar? What do you know of Ebonics, Hisponics, Spanglish, Cubanichi or any other dialect I wish to lay claim to? Since you are your own judge, who are you to judge me?

So, go ahead and believe Christianity is or should be whatever you wish. just do not be so judgemental, intolerant, bigoted and narrow minded towards me.

As Cpt Kirk said before entering the Nebula to confound Ricardo montalvan, "Sauce for the goose, Mr. Spock." is sauce for the gander.

JR

As to mocking, it was you who started it by mocking my grammar. English being my second language, I take exception now to your bigoted ways. I do not need to confine myself to the Queen's English. As a black hispanick, I can use ebonics or Hisponics and who are you to judge my immigrant ways? Since you advocate we all believe whatever we wish, who are you to judge my grammar? What do you know of Ebonics, Hisponics, Spanglish, Cubanichi or any other dialect I wish to lay claim to? Since you are your own judge, who are you to judge me?

So, go ahead and believe Christianity is or should be whatever you wish. just do not be so judgemental, intolerant, bigoted and narrow minded towards me.

Clearly you took it the wrong way, jumping to a conclusion and making exaggerated claims. It did not occur to you that I did NOT know your origins? And I never said anything about Ebonics nor any other of the dialects aforementioned. I made that comment as to say "truth" is not a proper noun, and had thought you made a simple error. I don't know your beliefs as everyone comes on everyone else's threads and areas of the forum unless they tell me their faith or if I see what they are. Did I know that the "truth" to my point of view and the one you were using were the two different ends of the spectrum?

just do not be so judgemental, intolerant, bigoted and narrow minded towards me.

I am none of those things, as I speak truth and/or say it how it is. I gave my point on what the denomination Christianity you were as to the western world.

I do have a narrow view of Truth, as a Noun, Verb, Adjective.... but the Persons that are Truth can do as they please and not consult me about it. I am the slave of Christ, not the other way around. My conscience is bound primarily by the pages of Scripture, and I try not to lean upon my own understanding (of course, I often fail, and my own sin obscures me from seing the Truth of Scripture with much clarity-but I try, well, I try a little sometimes).

And that is your faith, that is what you either grew up to believe or what you have chosen to believe at a later time/switch. I am not here to criticize your faith, I came to tell it how it is from America's POV.

And as to your first paragraph I had not made comments on your personal life at all outside of religon, and refer towards my last comment. And to what I had originally said - America is a vast majority of sects, religions and denominations of faith.

 

[cubanito]

and you did not understand the point: when you call for not being judgemental at the time you are judging those who believe they ought to judge, you are judging yourself.

When you jettison Absolute Truth, moral and otherwise, you then have no basis to judge other than your own opinion, or perhaps majority opinion. Even grammar then is all a matter of whatever some subculture says it ought be. To come into the fundy site with a judgemental approach against fundies is laughable. Almost as funny as calling myself brilliant and humble to remind myself of what an arrogant %*&^ I really am, for when I judge another, I better be very very careful as I tread dangerous ground. Necessary ground to walk sometimes, judging another, but a minefield of self destruction when done arrogantly.

Again, as the Captain of the Kirk said to the supposedly objective Spock (who in fact was a ball of suppressed emotions lying every time he said he had none): what is sauce for the goose ought be sauce for the gander, and so you condemn yourself. (liberal paraphrase of Romans 2:1-16)

 

[Syckological]

and you did not understand the point: when you call for not being judgemental at the time you are judging those who believe they ought to judge, you are judging yourself.

When you jettison Absolute Truth, moral and otherwise, you then have no basis to judge other than your own opinion, or perhaps majority opinion. Even grammar then is all a matter of whatever some subculture says it ought be. To come into the fundy site with a judgemental approach against fundies is laughable. Almost as funny as calling myself brilliant and humble to remind myself of what an arrogant %*&^ I really am, for when I judge another, I better be very very careful as I tread dangerous ground. Necessary ground to walk sometimes, judging another, but a minefield of self destruction when done arrogantly.

Again, as the Captain of the Kirk said to the supposedly objective Spock (who in fact was a ball of suppressed emotions lying every time he said he had none): what is sauce for the goose ought be sauce for the gander, and so you condemn yourself. (liberal paraphrase of Romans 2:1-16)

To come into the fundy site with a judgemental approach against fundies is laughable. when you call for not being judgemental at the time you are judging those who believe they ought to judge, you are judging yourself.

And that only brings me back to my original post, the first one I made on this thread. The question more or less was: Why do people use Fundamentalism in a negative connotation/see Christian Fundamentalism in a negative way?

My answer was that of any Agnostic, Atheist, and other Christians (depending on the type), who would respond to the question and in no way being judgmental. I was telling it how it is.

Fundamentalism is at adds with other forms of Christianity as they take the bible "as is" and in a literal sense, and are often criticized for their belief that their higher power is seen as one to be feared as opposed to one that is loving and accepting, as well as other complete opposites as opposed to the other forms of Christianity. Best way to describe it as a drastic departure from the norm, and humans by nature are always incredulous to change etc. So a vast difference in religious beliefs is always to stir controversy, much like an Atheist would with a Christian if both are in a heated debate.

If you are an agnostic, you do not know, so again do not judge.

I understand the various ways on life and how it works. I know morality, ethics, and values. I have them just as much as anyone else does and I have views that are precious to me and causes that I will rightfully fight for. I know the difference between good and evil just as anyone with or without faith would know. Morality, Ethics & Values are all relative in that sense. That would be like saying there is a universal answer to the Philosophical question: What is the meaning of Life? There isn't - there are so many different people with their own question to answer.

 

[lesliedellow]

I notice a lot of the time people use the word "fundamentalist" like it's almost a bad thing. Why? Fundamentalist, to my knowledge means one believes in the fundamentals of the faith? What's wrong with that?

Because to most people, including me, fundamentalist means obscurantist.

 

[cubanito]

.... deleted for brevity
I understand the various ways on life and how it works. I know morality, ethics, and values. I have them just as much as anyone else does and I have views that are precious to me and causes that I will rightfully fight for. I know the difference between good and evil just as anyone with or without faith would know. Morality, Ethics & Values are all relative in that sense. That would be like saying there is a universal answer to the Philosophical question: What is the meaning of Life? There isn't - there are so many different people with their own question to answer.

According to God, you understand nothing. According to current mathematics, you can neither prove nor disprove anything that is real, because you will always be incomplete. See the continuum hypothesis, Kurt Godell's 2 incompleteness theorem2 or the stupendous failure trying to unify logic and mathematics.

You have views that are precious to you. Without an absolute standard that is ALL they are: your views. If Jack the Ripper thought that he/she was doing a favor to the world by killing and terrorizing prostitutes, well, those views were precious to him or her. Give me ONE logical reason why the cause for which Jack the Ripper fought is any worse than whatever cause you hold dear.

Standing on the authority of the Bible I can sure tell you why Jack the Ripper was wrong, and evil. As an Agnostic you are your own reference point, and so the sauce that is good for the goose (you) is good for the gander (Jack the Ripper, Ted Bundy, fill in your own favorite villain here_________________). Which is why the Captain of the Kirk entered the nebula when Khan was out to prove his superiority, as you are out to prove your superiority. You see, Khan had his precious cause also, just like Margaret Sanger, founder of Planned Parenthood, they both wanted to improve the genetic stock of the human race. Very logical, abort among the poor, sterilize the mentlly or physically unfit, and when that is insufficient, follow the advice of Bernard Shaw and euthenize those that do not contribute to society.

I am not interested in winning a popularity contest, because Truth is not the product of a Hegelian dialectic or some new-age interpretation of quantum mechanics. Truth is God, and God is not just Love, He is ALSO a Jealous God, a Consuming Fire, a Warrior, and very much to be Feared. These Biblical statements run throughout both Testaments. They are not popular today, just like the Loving, Merciful and Forgiving side of God were not popular throughout MOST of Christian history. Both sides of God are True, and you can not have one without the other.

JR

 

[Syckological]

According to God, you understand nothing. According to current mathematics, you can neither prove nor disprove anything that is real, because you will always be incomplete. See the continuum hypothesis, Kurt Godell's 2 incompleteness theorem2 or the stupendous failure trying to unify logic and mathematics.

You have views that are precious to you. Without an absolute standard that is ALL they are: your views. If Jack the Ripper thought that he/she was doing a favor to the world by killing and terrorizing prostitutes, well, those views were precious to him or her. Give me ONE logical reason why the cause for which Jack the Ripper fought is any worse than whatever cause you hold dear.

Standing on the authority of the Bible I can sure tell you why Jack the Ripper was wrong, and evil. As an Agnostic you are your own reference point, and so the sauce that is good for the goose (you) is good for the gander (Jack the Ripper, Ted Bundy, fill in your own favorite villain here_________________). Which is why the Captain of the Kirk entered the nebula when Khan was out to prove his superiority, as you are out to prove your superiority. You see, Khan had his precious cause also, just like Margaret Sanger, founder of Planned Parenthood, they both wanted to improve the genetic stock of the human race. Very logical, abort among the poor, sterilize the mentlly or physically unfit, and when that is insufficient, follow the advice of Bernard Shaw and euthenize those that do not contribute to society.

I am not interested in winning a popularity contest, because Truth is not the product of a Hegelian dialectic or some new-age interpretation of quantum mechanics. Truth is God, and God is not just Love, He is ALSO a Jealous God, a Consuming Fire, a Warrior, and very much to be Feared. These Biblical statements run throughout both Testaments. They are not popular today, just like the Loving, Merciful and Forgiving side of God were not popular throughout MOST of Christian history. Both sides of God are True, and you can not have one without the other.

JR

According to God, you understand nothing. According to current mathematics, you can neither prove nor disprove anything that is real, because you will always be incomplete. See the continuum hypothesis, Kurt Godell's 2 incompleteness theorem2 or the stupendous failure trying to unify logic and mathematics.

Again, proving what I had said. I never said I can prove or disprove anything. What I said was I have the same amount of views, morals, values etc as any other American - with faith or without. Comparing Jack The Ripper is a case of apples to oranges and is on two extremes of the spectrum. I didn't think anything he did was good at all and nothing good came out except for an interesting story that has yet to be solved. (And it reminded me of one of my favorite bands....Whitechapel heh.)

You have views that are precious to you. Without an absolute standard that is ALL they are: your views.

The same goes for all forms of Christianity. I never said there was a standard, I said it is all relative to the person and you simply added on to what I had previously stated (again). I never said there was a universal, but that every one's views is their own and relative. I have ethics and values and the whole nine yards as an Agnostic Atheist. You have yours as a Christian. My college buddy who is gay has his views, ethics, and values as a Christian. My mother who is of your denomination has her own views etc as well.

 

[cubanito]

Then Jack the Ripper, whose actions had beneficial effects such as improving police methods, calling attention to the plight of prostitutes and so on is no better nor worse than you or I in your relativistic world. That is what I am trying to point out. I can say you are better than Jack, because I have a standard to compare with. You can only say that in YOUR OPINION you are better than Jack. You stand on quicksand, I stand on Rock.

That sounds really nice on paper, but I bet whenever someone does something you do not like that hurt you, suddenly you begin making appeals to some sort of universal standard of morality.

JR

 

[Syckological]

Then Jack the Ripper, whose actions had beneficial effects such as improving police methods, calling attention to the plight of prostitutes and so on is no better nor worse than you or I in your relativistic world. That is what I am trying to point out. I can say you are better than Jack, because I have a standard to compare with. You can only say that in YOUR OPINION you are better than Jack. You stand on quicksand, I stand on Rock.

That sounds really nice on paper, but I bet whenever someone does something you do not like that hurt you, suddenly you begin making appeals to some sort of universal standard of morality.

JR

but I bet whenever someone does something you do not like that hurt you, suddenly you begin making appeals to some sort of universal standard of morality.

What worries me is that you skimmed everything. I never said anything about a universal morality (again) as i've said it's relative to the person. And the issue at hand is I don't get hurt. I'm always going to have a tight knit group of friends, and if a new one comes and they disagree with me or any of my other buddies it wouldn't matter. A petty difference? Lolno.

You stand on quicksand, I stand on Rock.

Mmmmmmmm quicksand that is easily gotten out of~ Jack the Ripper *did* change ways, but as did other serial killers after him, and killers of a specific person~ They improved and added more.

 

[dontwc]

When someone talks disparagingly about Fundamentalists, I usually ask what they mean by that. They generally cannot explain it because they don't know what they are talking about. We have to explain it too them or else they will keep getting all their information from TV and movies, which is why they are so ill-informed.

Just my two minas...

Don

 

[dontwc]

Evolution does not create theological difficulties for me because it's fairly unimportant to my relationship with God. I have political difficulties with it because I think it opens the door for a eugenics-style judging of the races. After all, if man evolved from apes, it stands to reason that apes evolve. Therefore, there should be other evolved versions of these ape-men, thus giving us levels of humanity. A hundred years ago, there were scientists who believed Jews and blacks were lower forms of our species. This was big in Europe, but I don't have to tell you that.

I don't tell people that they have to believe in any political system or scientific theory in order to be a Christian.It sounds like you do, or am I missing something here? I preach Christ and Him crucified. We are all sinners in need of a Savior. One came who died for the sins of all mankind. We must simply put our trust in Him. I will let Jesus explain all these other things when I get to Heaven.

Later,
Don

 

[dontwc]

True Christians are wrong about a lot of things. Paul told the Corinthians, "There are not many wise or noble among you." It would be good to keep this in mind.

 

[motherprayer]

True Christians are wrong about a lot of things. Paul told the Corinthians, "There are not many wise or noble among you." It would be good to keep this in mind.

Wow amen!

 

[FreeinChrist]

MOD HAT

This thread is closed for review. This IS the home forum for Fundamentalists and this is not the place to argue against them or criticize them by non-Fundamentalists.

Doing a clean up