Why do people reject Christ?

[Van]

I think pride is a sin, so if that was your message, TM, I agree.

 

[TruthMiner]

I think pride is a sin, so if that was your message, TM, I agree.

Christians sin.

Why?

Because at that moment in time, they love the world more than God and so they choose the world and the sin.

Same reason people reject Christ - at that moment in time, they love the world more.

 

[Van]

A lot of sin is volitional, we choose to do other than what we believe is righteous. But we also sin because we believe something is godly when it is not. And in either case, we could be motivated by pride.

Say, I believe Jesus is not the Christ. So I reject Him. Is that a love of the world? Nope. But is an unwillingness to consider that I could be wrong, and all those whose esteem I desire could be wrong, a part of why I rejected Christ? Yes. So pride undergirds my rejection of Christ, whether motivated by a desire to serve the God I believe in, or motivated by my desire to flee the light.

 

[nobdysfool]

The natural man loves darkness, and shuns the light, because his deeds are evil. Pride may be a factor, but I don't believe that you can rightly say that pride undergirds everything man does. Jesus said that those who reject Him are of their father the devil, and the deeds of their father they will to do. All men are born children of the devil, and it is only by the monergistic intervention of God that any are translated from the kingdom of darkness to the kingdom of God's son, Jesus, the Christ. Men cannot effect this change themselves,, not by force of will, not by choice, not by any agency within man. It is by the power of the Holy Spirit, quickening them to spiritual life, to enable them to believe, receive, and be joined to Christ. God the Father gives them to Christ, SO THAT they will be His Sheep. Those whom the Father gives to Christ, He saves, and keeps them, to the end. They are given to Christ, not because they are saved, but that they will be saved. Christ died for those whom the Father gave to Him. Not all men are given to Christ, and those who are not given to Him, perish in their sins, and will be judged for their sins. Those who are given to Christ have passed from death to Life, and it is totally a work of God, not the choice of man.

 

[A Brother In Christ]

The natural man loves darkness, and shuns the light, because his deeds are evil. Pride may be a factor, but I don't believe that you can rightly say that pride undergirds everything man does.

depravity more like it! God needs to fill the void eph 2:5... with out His calling we stay lost 2 tim 1:9

Jesus said that those who reject Him are of their father the devil, and the deeds of their father they will to do. All men are born children of the devil, and it is only by the monergistic intervention of God that any are translated from the kingdom of darkness to the kingdom of God's son, Jesus, the Christ. Men cannot effect this change themselves,, not by force of will, not by choice, not by any agency within man. It is by the power of the Holy Spirit, quickening them to spiritual life, to enable them to believe, receive, and be joined to Christ. God the Father gives them to Christ, SO THAT they will be His Sheep. Those whom the Father gives to Christ, He saves, and keeps them, to the end. They are given to Christ, not because they are saved, but that they will be saved. Christ died for those whom the Father gave to Him. Not all men are given to Christ, and those who are not given to Him, perish in their sins, and will be judged for their sins. Those who are given to Christ have passed from death to Life, and it is totally a work of God, not the choice of man.

amen

 

[A Brother In Christ]

Christians sin.

Why?

Because at that moment in time, they love the world more than God and so they choose the world and the sin.

Same reason people reject Christ - at that moment in time, they love the world more.

there are three enemies

the flesh... roman 6, 1 cor 7:20-24
Satan .. eph 6:10-17
the world ... 1 john 2:15

all three will get a believer carnal ... do to lower their thought to the world instead of the graces in Christ
col 3:1-4

 

[Van]

The natural man loves darkness, and shuns the light, because his deeds are evil.

Complete fiction, the biblical view indicates some men love darkness, but others receive the gospel with joy, Matthew 13:20-21.

Pride may be a factor, but I don't believe that you can rightly say that pride undergirds everything man does.

NBF is burning a strawman here, as if someone other than himself asserted that pride undergirds everything that men do. What was actually asserted is pride undergirds the rejection of Christ.

Jesus said that those who reject Him are of their father the devil, and the deeds of their father they will to do.

Again, the application of this statement to all men is wrong, those who reject Christ have not heard and learned from the Father, which means they are not "of God" but others who have heard and learned from the Father seek Christ.

All men are born children of the devil, and it is only by the monergistic intervention of God that any are translated from the kingdom of darkness to the kingdom of God's son, Jesus, the Christ.

This is a true statement, but the RT doctrine that is concealed within it is of course completely false.

Men cannot effect this change themselves,, not by force of will, not by choice, not by any agency within man.

True, God puts us "in Christ" after God credits our faith in Christ as righteousness.

It is by the power of the Holy Spirit, quickening them to spiritual life, to enable them to believe, receive, and be joined to Christ.

Nothing could be more wrong, this false doctrine is unbiblical. Matthew 13:20-21 clearly teaches that those who have not been born again can believe and receive the gospel with joy.

God the Father gives them to Christ, SO THAT they will be His Sheep.

Yes, God gives some of the sheep to Christ, those who have heard and learned from the Father.

Those whom the Father gives to Christ, He saves, and keeps them, to the end.

Yes, this is one of the few biblical doctines found in the Tulip.

They are given to Christ, not because they are saved, but that they will be saved.

Yes, only when God credits our faith in Christ as righteousness and spiritually places us in Christ, where we undergo the circumcision of Christ, and arise in Christ a new creation born again from above, and then indwelt and sealed with the Holy Spirit forever, are we saved.

Christ died for those whom the Father gave to Him.

Yes, Christ died for all men which of course includes those the Father would give to Christ, those that had heard and learned from the Father.

Not all men are given to Christ, and those who are not given to Him, perish in their sins, and will be judged for their sins.

Yes this is true.

Those who are given to Christ have passed from death to Life, and it is totally a work of God, not the choice of man.

Yes, we are saved by grace through faith. When God credits our faith as righteousness, our faith provides our access to God's grace.

 

[nobdysfool]

Complete fiction, the biblical view indicates some men love darkness, but others receive the gospel with joy, Matthew 13:20-21.

No, Van, ALL men naturally love darkness and shun the light. That is the natural-born state of man. it is only when the Holy Spirit monergistically quickens their spirits to life that they believe, receive and are joined to Christ. Within that parable, which you misapply, it is clear that those whom you focus on are NOT saved, because they fall away. Therefore, receiving the Gospel with joy is not an indicator of salvation. They engaged in intellectual assent, which many do today. Churches are filled with unsaved "Christians" who have intellectually accepted some of the Gospel, but have not been born again, and are therefore rootless and will fall away when their so-called "faith" is tested.

NBF is burning a strawman here, as if someone other than himself asserted that pride undergirds everything that men do. What was actually asserted is pride undergirds the rejection of Christ.

I don't recall you making that exact statement. Certainly pride undergirds a lot of what unregenerate men do, but I find in scripture that all sin can be summed up under the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and boastful pride of life.

Again, the application of this statement to all men is wrong, those who reject Christ have not heard and learned from the Father, which means they are not "of God" but others who have heard and learned from the Father seek Christ.

You speak as though merely hearing and learning from the Father happens while they are in an unregenerate state. Not so, for the things of God are foolishness to the unregenerate. Once they have been quickened, then they can hear, learn, and believe. That is the biblical progression.

This is a true statement, but the RT doctrine that is concealed within it is of course completely false.

Just can't avoid taking a potshot at RT can you? Either the statement is true or it's not. You have said it is true, i.e. you agree with what I said. Leave your bogus campaign against RT out of it.

True, God puts us "in Christ" after God credits our faith in Christ as righteousness.

That faith is not a product of the man, it is a result of hearing the Word of God. You continually argue for an attribute that no natural man possesses. Faith comes from hearing and hearing comes from the Word of God.

Nothing could be more wrong, this false doctrine is unbiblical. Matthew 13:20-21 clearly teaches that those who have not been born again can believe and receive the gospel with joy.

But that does not save them does it? The parable shows that it does not. It is not within man to lift himself sufficiently to be born again. My statement stands,

It is by the power of the Holy Spirit, quickening them to spiritual life, to enable them to believe, receive, and be joined to Christ.

You state that once a person is saved, they cannot lose that salvation. Since the people who were compared to thorny ground and rocky ground fell away, they could not have been saved. Therefore, receiving the Gospel with joy does not, in and of itself, save anyone. Salvation is a work of God, not a result of receiving the Gospel with joy. Intellectual assent never saved anyone. We are saved by Grace through faith, and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God. Salvation is a gift, not a reward.

Yes, God gives some of the sheep to Christ, those who have heard and learned from the Father.

Those who are not given to Christ by the Father are not sheep, they are goats.

Yes, this is one of the few biblical doctines found in the Tulip.

Yes, only when God credits our faith in Christ as righteousness and spiritually places us in Christ, where we undergo the circumcision of Christ, and arise in Christ a new creation born again from above, and then indwelt and sealed with the Holy Spirit forever, are we saved.

Yes, Christ died for all men which of course includes those the Father would give to Christ, those that had heard and learned from the Father.
Yes this is true.
Yes, we are saved by grace through faith. When God credits our faith as righteousness, our faith provides our access to God's grace.

Well, finally, you are allowing that I have made some biblical statements, even though you still want to put your spin on them.

 

[A Brother In Christ]

Complete fiction, the biblical view indicates some men love darkness, but others receive the gospel with joy, Matthew 13:20-21.

how can a man recieve joy which is from the fruit of the spirit [ work produce by the Holy Spirit ] if they do not know God.... they already knew God if they have joy

carnal christian and unbelievers can not have joy

john 3:19 .... men love darkness....

till the Holy Spirit convicts them of sin, righteousness and judgement john 16:8

Man hears the Good News .. 1 cor 15:3-4 , titus 3:5.. romans 10:17

NBF is burning a strawman here, as if someone other than himself asserted that pride undergirds everything that men do. What was actually asserted is pride undergirds the rejection of Christ.
Again, the application of this statement to all men is wrong, those who reject Christ have not heard and learned from the Father, which means they are not "of God" but others who have heard and learned from the Father seek Christ.


This is a true statement, but the RT doctrine that is concealed within it is of course completely false.


True, God puts us "in Christ" after God credits our faith in Christ as righteousness.

Nothing could be more wrong, this false doctrine is unbiblical. Matthew 13:20-21 clearly teaches that those who have not been born again can believe and receive the gospel with joy.

Yes, God gives some of the sheep to Christ, those who have heard and learned from the Father.

Yes, this is one of the few biblical doctines found in the Tulip.
Yes, only when God credits our faith in Christ as righteousness and spiritually places us in Christ, where we undergo the circumcision of Christ, and arise in Christ a new creation born again from above, and then indwelt and sealed with the Holy Spirit forever, are we saved.

eph 2:5 even when we were dead in sins hath made us alive together with Christ -8

lordship comes after believeing ... romans 12:1-2
saved in romans 4:1-8
learning about grace vs law.... romans 6-7

Yes, Christ died for all men which of course includes those the Father would give to Christ, those that had heard and learned from the Father.
Yes this is true.
Yes, we are saved by grace through faith. When God credits our faith as righteousness, our faith provides our access to God's grace.

how many years between were Abrahams believed and were he worked.. james 2:18? heb 11 , gen 15:6, gen 22:10

 

[Van]

Hi BIC, you ask "how can a man receive joy" but scripture says the unregenerate person received the gospel with joy.

Hi NBF, you can make the RT assertions till the cows come home, but the assertions are unbiblical. You seem to imply all men love darkness at all times, but that is unbiblical in light of Matthew 13:20-21.

You speak as though merely hearing and learning from the Father happens while they are in an unregenerate state. Not so, for the things of God are foolishness to the unregenerate. Once they have been quickened, then they can hear, learn, and believe. That is the biblical progression

This is the unbiblical RT assertion, repeated and repeated. But folks, read Matthew 13:20-21, these unregerates received the gospel with joy so it was not foolishness to them. This one size fits all mindset of RT undergirds their mistaken views. The parable of the four soils teaches that men respond to the gospel in varying ways, some flee the light, but all do not, so the RT assertion that all flee the light is unbiblical.

All men are born children of the devil, and it is only by the monergistic intervention of God that any are translated from the kingdom of darkness to the kingdom of God's son, Jesus, the Christ.

This statement is true, but the RT doctrine concealed within it, that God does not credit our faith as righteousness, is false. You see the term "monergistic intervention" means God puts us in Christ all by Himself, which is true, but RT also contends it means God causes us irresistibly to believe in Christ, which is false.

Therefore, receiving the Gospel with joy does not, in and of itself, save anyone. Salvation is a work of God, not a result of receiving the Gospel with joy. Intellectual assent never saved anyone. We are saved by Grace through faith, and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God. Salvation is a gift, not a reward.

Now you have got it. Hold that thought! There is not need for the doctrine that the unregenerate cannot receive the gospel with joy, since it is unbiblical and does not result necessarily in salvation. We as saved by grace, God credits our faith as righteousness and places us spiritually in Christ. That is the valid monergistic intervention.

NBF, yet another unbiblical assertion is the lost are not sheep. All like sheep have gone astray ring a bell?

NBF and BIC, enjoy our week of celebration, He is risen!

 

[A Brother In Christ]

? english please

 

[Van]

Content please

 

[Ceridwen]

Do Muslims fail to convert because of pride?

 

[Van]

As addressed before, when we accept a view as truth, we are reluctant to turn loose of that view, and accept another view. Many in Christ's time were unwilling to turn loose of the Temple System, the religious system they had learned as a child. Similarly, those who hold beliefs adopted in their youth, such as Islam, are unwilling to turn loose. They would become outcasts in a tribal culture, the very same difficulty the early Christians faced.

So yes, I believe pride undergirds their rejection of Jesus.

 

[nobdysfool]

Rather simplistic to say such a thing. Certainly pride is one possible reason, but there are bound to be others, such as fear, deception (more prevalent than we'd like to think), and a conscience that is seared, from repeated sin, to the point where there is no reaching them, God having given them over to the evil they desire so strongly.

All sin can be summed up under the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eye, and the boastful pride of life. All sin falls into at least one, if not two, or all of these classifications..

 

[A Brother In Christ]

Hi BIC, you ask "how can a man receive joy" but scripture says the unregenerate person received the gospel with joy.

verses please

Hi NBF, you can make the RT

???

assertions till the cows come home, but the assertions are unbiblical. You seem to imply all men love darkness at all times,

john 3:19

but that is unbiblical in light of Matthew 13:20-21.

This is the unbiblical RT

???

assertion, repeated and repeated. But folks, read Matthew 13:20-21, these unregerates received the gospel with joy so it was not foolishness to them. This one size fits all mindset of RT

????

undergirds their mistaken views. The parable of the four soils teaches that men respond to the gospel in varying ways, some flee the light, but all do not, so the RT

?????

assertion that all flee the light is unbiblical.

This statement is true, but the RT

????

doctrine concealed within it, that God does not credit our faith as righteousness, is false. You see the term "monergistic intervention" means God puts us in Christ all by Himself, which is true, but RT

???

also contends it means God causes us irresistibly to believe in Christ, which is false.

Now you have got it. Hold that thought! There is not need for the doctrine that the unregenerate cannot receive the gospel with joy, since it is unbiblical and does not result necessarily in salvation. We as saved by grace, God credits our faith as righteousness and places us spiritually in Christ. That is the valid monergistic intervention.

NBF, yet another unbiblical assertion is the lost are not sheep. All like sheep have gone astray ring a bell?

NBF and BIC, enjoy our week of celebration, He is risen!

? english please

Content please

there you go

 

[Van]

Hi BIC, you can post ???? till the cows come home, your post still is devoid of content. John 3:19 demonstrates my point, not yours. Men loved darkness does not say either some men or all men loved darkness. However, Matthew 13:1-23 provides the answer, some men loved darkness. Therefore John 3:19 supports my position that some men loved darkness, but others, verse 21 refers to those who practice the truth, just as Matthew 13:23 refers to those who fully commit to Christ from the heart with nothing held back.

 

[Van]

Certainly pride is one possible reason, but there are bound to be others, such as fear, deception (more prevalent than we'd like to think), and a conscience that is seared, from repeated sin, to the point where there is no reaching them, God having given them over to the evil they desire so strongly.

Behold, folks, the fruit of RT for all to see.

 

[xtreN]

Hello Van,

Why do people reject Christ?

Christ said this is why:

"A light has come into the world, but people love the darkness rather than the light, because their deeds are evil. 20 Those who do evil things hate the light and will not come to the light, because they do not want their evil deeds to be shown up. 21 But those who do what is true come to the light in order that the light may show that what they did was in obedience to God. John 3:19-21

And here is the counteract to that to anyone who would like to receive Jesus as your personal Lord and Saviour:

If you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your Heart that God raised him from the dead you will be saved. Romans 10:9

Thank you and God bless

xtreN

 

[A Brother In Christ]

Hi BIC, you can post ???? till the cows come home, your post still is devoid of content. John 3:19 demonstrates my point, not yours. Men loved darkness does not say either some men or all men loved darkness. However, Matthew 13:1-23 provides the answer, some men loved darkness. Therefore John 3:19 supports my position that some men loved darkness, but others, verse 21 refers to those who practice the truth, just as Matthew 13:23 refers to those who fully commit to Christ from the heart with nothing held back.

John 3:19 refer to all men love darkness over light

once again you can not answer one question

matt 13 refers to the 1000 yr reign ....