why do people pray to Mary, should'nt we only pray to God (Christ)

[peterlindner]

Jam 5:16[/URL] Confess [your] faults one to another, and pray one for another, that ye may be healed. The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much.

Brethren, pray for us.
Finally, brethren, pray for us, that the word of the Lord may have [free] course, and be glorified, even as [it is] with you: And that we may be delivered from unreasonable and wicked men: for all [men] have not faith.

Pray for us: for we trust we have a good conscience, in all things willing to live honestly.

The Lord grant unto him that he may find mercy of the Lord in that day: and in how many things he ministered unto me at Ephesus, thou knowest very well.

All quotes from disciples, christians, or students. The disciples got many things wrong. These people didn't know the times when they were with Jesus. They aren't going to be much help in discerning today's times.

 

[DrBubbaLove]

All quotes from disciples, christians, or students. The disciples got many things wrong. These people didn't know the times when they were with Jesus. They aren't going to be much help in discerning today's times.

I could see how it does become difficult to discern when one starts with no foundation and the premiss that we can pick and choose what to believe or not from the Bible.

I should say authority/foundation.

 

[peterlindner]

I could see how it does become difficult to discern when one starts with no foundation and the premiss that we can pick and choose what to believe or not from the Bible.

I should say authority/foundation.

God killeth, and God raiseth up.
God gave spirits of confusion to Saul.
God hardened Pharoah's heart.

Jesus told us to close the door and pray in private.
Paul said to lift up holy hands (public display).
Jesus said to go out without money in their wallet.
The disciples started to pool their money in case "faith" didn't work.

I think it worth evaluating who the participants are in God's stories.

My foundation is the Word; every bit is Canon. God is just checking to see if we learned anything about His will from the old testament. Do we choose based on what feels good and looks godly, or are we obedient and follow Him? Most of the world follows "white as snow" and a "two edged sword" as a representation of god. I heed Jesus warning of the washed feet exposing the true nature of BRASS feet of the angels in revelations. Revelations is a DEAD end book. Lazarus and resurrection is God's end plan.

My FOUNDATION...Isiah 51. I know both the rock and the hole that it is dug. It ain't my daddy's religion. Do you priests know why there are bells on your garments? If you didn't get it just right you were struck dead. Well those prayer bells (parables) need a closer look. You're not getting them all right. In this day your church is likening the kingdom to 10 virgins. Likened is compared not IS. Later on in verse 14 Jesus says the Kingdom IS a man on a journey. That man has to leave his foundations, jump out of his boat, and get his mana from the source, Jesus.

 

[DrBubbaLove]

Again, it is about authority. By whose authority does anyone claim to have the "source"?

To me it would seem an easy thing to just claim having the "source" as an individual. Who is to say one is mistaken to someone who knows themself that they are right?

Obviously if two claim contrary positions, they both cannot be correct, yet both still claim to be getting it from the "source".

Personally I much prefer having a "source" that is not subject to my own understanding of scripture. There is a security in that which I find lacking relying on myself, much as the eunuch saying to Phillip, without someone to guide me. The question then becomes whom do we allow to guide us.

I follow the Church's teaching, so my own understanding and whether I feel my own understanding is right or wrong does not matter. I believe the Church's teaching to be correct, whether I fully understand all that is behind it or not. You have obviously come to a different conclusion and it works for you.

For me I cannot error if I follow the Church's lead, so it is simply a matter of studying what the Church's position is and giving it the authority in my life over what is from the "source".
In my experience those outside of perhaps Orthodox or Roman Catholic Church have taken positions in their lifetime at odds with the one held now, yet before the change they were just as certain then as they are now that the position was correct - from the "source" if you will.

 

[peterlindner]

Again, it is about authority. By whose authority does anyone claim to have the "source"?

To me it would seem an easy thing to just claim having the "source" as an individual. Who is to say one is mistaken to someone who knows themself that they are right?

Obviously if two claim contrary positions, they both cannot be correct, yet both still claim to be getting it from the "source".

Personally I much prefer having a "source" that is not subject to my own understanding of scripture. There is a security in that which I find lacking relying on myself, much as the eunuch saying to Phillip, without someone to guide me. The question then becomes whom do we allow to guide us.

I follow the Church's teaching, so my own understanding and whether I feel my own understanding is right or wrong does not matter. I believe the Church's teaching to be correct, whether I fully understand all that is behind it or not. You have obviously come to a different conclusion and it works for you.

For me I cannot error if I follow the Church's lead, so it is simply a matter of studying what the Church's position is and giving it the authority in my life over what is from the "source".
In my experience those outside of perhaps Orthodox or Roman Catholic Church have taken positions in their lifetime at odds with the one held now, yet before the change they were just as certain then as they are now that the position was correct - from the "source" if you will.

A sincere reply in a friendly tone. No fault there. Thank you. I had a "Job" experience in my life where I had to get answers and could not settle for anyone's interpretations. I had to throw everything out from a Baptist through pentecostal upbringing. For a long time I coveted the "gift" of tongues and couldn't understand why it wasn't given to me. My father, mother and sister all had it. My dad has turned into an atheist, and my mother and sister walked step by step in faith with me...until I asked God what the meaning of Hopni(sp?) and Phineas's death in the same day. God had a creative way of answering my question. He lead me to Acts 2. I read through the various accounts in matthew through luke of what happened with on this day of pentecost. I shared what I discovered with my mother and sister (the trophy of tongues is the spirit given to Saul; a spirit of confusion. Whereas the holy spirit is quiet with no outward sign). My Mother and sister both turned completely against me; to the point of calling me satan. God's answer showed me losing two family members in one day in the same way that Elkanah lost his two sons. So the more I take a fresh look at God's Word, the more I see a big picture and a test, just like in Job's account. When I first read Job, I had already heard about the ending but didn't know about the accounts of Job's friends. I had to peak at the ending to find out if the friend accounts were God's will. They sure seemed to be knowledgeable. So now when I look to accounts of disciples and angels, I have to look at their track record and compare their advice to that given directly from Jesus. I trust in the "authority" of Jesus 100%.

 

[WisdomTree]

Who revived a dead thread!?

 

[DrBubbaLove]

Peter

 

[Ishraqiyun]

why do people pray to Mary, should'nt we only pray to God (Christ)

It would depend on how you are using the term "pray". If you are using it according to the definition of "to entreat or implore" then it's fine to pray to people other than God including Mary. If you are implying some form of worship that is due only to God by using that term then that might be more problematic.

 

[WisdomTree]

It would depend on how you are using the term "pray". If you are using it according to the definition of "to entreat or implore" then it's fine to pray to people other than God including Mary. If you are implying some form of worship that is due only to God by using that term then that might be more problematic.

"... This very special devotion ... differs from the adoration which is given to the incarnate Word..." - Catechism of the Catholic Church, 971

 

[Dorothea]

God is three... yes I've heard that idea before. But I serve only One Lord God, His Name is Jesus;

I've heard of that before. I learned about it in a lecture a few years ago. It's called Christomonism. In order to know Christ, we must know Him through the Holy Spirit. It is the Spirit that opens our hearts and eyes to who Christ is. It is Christ who reveals who God the Father is. You cannot cut off the Father - the source of the Son and the Spirit, nor can you cut off the Spirit, who works in us.

 

[Zetlander]

quote We ask for her to pray for us, just like we ask anybody to pray for us. We don't pray to Mary as if she's GOD. There's only one God - the Trinity unquote ........................in asking mary to pray for us, you are praying to the dead ! God forbids us communicating wth the dead...YOU ONLY SHOULD PRAY TO GOD, not a human being, so dont do it, its blasphemy.

 

[justinangel]

.....in asking Mary to pray for us, you are praying to the dead !

"For God commanded, 'Honor your father and your mother,'and 'Anyone who curses his father or his mother must be put to death.'"
Matthew 15, 4

Jesus is not only the Son of his heavenly Father, but also the Son of his earthly mother. In heaven our divine Lord retains his humanity as our eternal High Priest and intercessor (Heb 6:20;7:25). Jesus is both God and man in heaven (Col 2:9) just as he was on earth, only in heaven our Lord bodily exists in glory just as all the faithful shall upon the redemption of their bodies on the last day. (1 Cor 15: 21-23; 40-49). When Jesus accepted the mission of his heavenly Father to become man born under the law, it was in his humanity that he subjected himself to obey the moral law of the Torah. No human being has ever observed God's laws more perfectly than Jesus has in his humanity.

The Hebrew word for "honor" is kabodah, which means "to bestow glory" (kabod). Certainly Jesus could never dismiss his heavenly Father's commandment that we glorify our parents, especially since he has exhorted us to observe this Fourth Commandment in imitation of his own human perfection. Our Lord has honored and glorified his Father by obeying His commandment to bestow unprecedented glory upon the woman whom God predestined from all eternity to be his earthly mother. "Just as we have borne the image of the earthly, so we will also bear the image of the heavenly" (1 Cor 15:49). In the order of grace, the mother of our Lord has preceded the elect in the general resurrection. She is not dead or asleep. Jesus and Mary are the only two persons who gloriously exist body and soul in heaven.

"No one obeys the Fourth Commandment of honouring father and mother more fully than Jesus, who is Son of God and Son of Mary. It is fitting that Jesus would honour his mother, truly the Mother of God, by preserving her from the corruption of the grave and by glorifying her body in heaven before the general Resurrection of the body for all the other saints on the last day."
Pope Pius Xll, Munificentissimus Deus

"He has looked with favor on the lowliness of his handmaid.
From now on shall all generations call me blessed;
for the Mighty One has done great things for me,
and holy is his name."
Luke 1, 48-49

God forbids us communicating wth the dead...YOU ONLY SHOULD PRAY TO GOD, not a human being, so dont do it, its blasphemy.

Jesus made us a kingdom of priests for God. In and through Christ, we as priests intercede on behalf of God's people (1 Pet 2:5; Rev 1:6; 5:10). The prayers of the righteous are very effective (Jas 5:16), and so we ask the saints who are alive in heaven and those on earth to pray for us and with us to God - the source of all grace. Did Jesus disobey the Father when he conversed with the deceased Moses and Elijah (Mt 17:3; Mk 9:4; Lk 9:30)? No! God forbids necromancy and divination. We are one family in Christ in Heaven and on Earth as living members of Christ's mystical body. Jesus is the vine and we are the branches. The good branches are not cut off at death - but become more alive in Heaven (Jn 15:1-6; 1 Cor 13:12; 1 Jn 3:2).

PAX

 

[Foamhead]

I fail to understand how Jesus could have always existed yet have a mother.

Reading the doctrines involving Mary one can see how she has been "padded" over the years.

- First the church claims she was a virgin her whole life despite the bible clearly stating she had other children.

- Then they claim she was born free of original sin, despite the bible saying nothing like this.

-Then they claim she went to heaven without dying. (Not in the bible either).

Older teachings claim she felt no pain giving birth and even that her hymen remained intact afterwards. (I don't know if any churches still teach these last two).

Everything about her has been deified in some way.

The bible actually says in the ten commandments that Christians are not to pray to anyone but God or even make images of anything in heaven.

I don't get it.

 

[kellhus]

I fail to understand how Jesus could have always existed yet have a mother.

Reading the doctrines involving Mary one can see how she has been "padded" over the years.

- First the church claims she was a virgin her whole life despite the bible clearly stating she had other children.

- Then they claim she was born free of original sin, despite the bible saying nothing like this.

-Then they claim she went to heaven without dying. (Not in the bible either).

Older teachings claim she felt no pain giving birth and even that her hymen remained intact afterwards. (I don't know if any churches still teach these last two).

Everything about her has been deified in some way.

The bible actually says in the ten commandments that Christians are not to pray to anyone but God or even make images of anything in heaven.

I don't get it.

Maybe you should stop trying to "understand" and "get" God.

 

[MamaZ]

She has become a vain imagination for some. The one some claim is not even the same Mary of scripture. For the true Mary of scripture is a sinner saved by Grace as all are and a humble servant of the Lord as many other women are. Some cannot go to a Father because they believe they are strict and unrelenting so they go to a Mother hopeing that the mother will talk the father into what they want. Not so with our Father God. For He is full of Mercy and His love endures forever..

 

[kellhus]

She has become a vain imagination for some..

And a target of hatred and venomous animosity for some people, even on theoretically Christian forums.

 

[DrBubbaLove]

Yeah, really. Brides that diss the groom's mom usually don't stayed married long.

 

[MamaZ]

lol how funny since she is part of the bride of Christ. And being part of the bride of Christs are eternal. Thanks for the laughter..

 

[sonshine234]

And a target of hatred and venomous animosity for some people, even on theoretically Christian forums.

It did being out the heretics

 

[DrBubbaLove]

lol how funny since she is part of the bride of Christ. And being part of the bride of Christs are eternal. Thanks for the laughter..

She is also our Saviour's mom, and laughing at her seems counter-intuitive, but whatever makes one laugh I guess.