Why do people like Seventh-day Adventist and Adventist doctrine?

BobRyan said:

Romans 2:13-16 comes to mind. Have you read it?

13 "for it is not the hearers of the Law who are just before God, but the doers of the Law will be justified... on the day when according to my GOSPEL God will judge" Romans 2:13-16

And then there is 1 Cor 6 where Paul reminds the saints that if they imagine God is going to drag them into heaven while they are in open rebellion -- they are missing a few details.

1 Cor 6
7 Actually, then, it is already a defeat for you, that you have lawsuits with one another. Why not rather be wronged? Why not rather be defrauded? 8 On the contrary, you yourselves wrong and defraud. You do this even to your brethren.
9 Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, 10 nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God.



You are repeating that false accusation without ever showing that it has substance.

Why keep doing that?

My point is "Bible details matter"



Are you talking about this again?

Romans 2
13 "for it is not the hearers of the Law who are just before God, but the doers of the Law will be justified... on the day when according to my GOSPEL God will judge" Romans 2:13-16

Would you like to expand on that?

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The problem with just plucking a couple of verses out at random I sad you don't understand the full picture. Read ch 3
Paul draws his conclusions from what he has previously written.
No one is righteous, not one. No one will be desclared righteous by observing the law

BobRyan said:

So then no Gospel just justification by works in that example you give?

I keep repeating that this is your argument when such topics as "Do not take God's name in vain" come up.

Is it now you agreeing that this is your argument?

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Lets simplify it for you.
The christian has to die to a righteousness/ justification of observing the law. They have to know they have no righteousness/ justification before God of observing the law. . Christ is their righteousness, then they have the basics of the new covenant. The result:
For sin shall no longer be your master, for you are not under law but under grace.

The christian has to know Christ is their sole righteousness/ justification for heaven.

Neither you nor any sda member I have ever met believes that.
But that is Paul's core Gospel message

Now you are an intelligent chap. You must be able to understand what I have written. Therefore please, no bearing false witness concerning what i have written

BobRyan said:

Romans 2:13-16 comes to mind. Have you read it?

13 "for it is not the hearers of the Law who are just before God, but the doers of the Law will be justified... on the day when according to my GOSPEL God will judge" Romans 2:13-16

And then there is 1 Cor 6 where Paul reminds the saints that if they imagine God is going to drag them into heaven while they are in open rebellion -- they are missing a few details.

1 Cor 6
7 Actually, then, it is already a defeat for you, that you have lawsuits with one another. Why not rather be wronged? Why not rather be defrauded? 8 On the contrary, you yourselves wrong and defraud. You do this even to your brethren.
9 Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, 10 nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God.



You are repeating that false accusation without ever showing that it has substance.

Why keep doing that?

My point is "Bible details matter"



Are you talking about this again?

Romans 2
13 "for it is not the hearers of the Law who are just before God, but the doers of the Law will be justified... on the day when according to my GOSPEL God will judge" Romans 2:13-16

Would you like to expand on that?

Recall that I quoted Romans 2:4-16 for you on this point



We agree.

The condition of the lost is just as you say.

But in Romans 2 Paul discusses both the saved and the lost - hence Romans 2:13.

In fact Romans 2:4-16

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Read the conclusion. No one will be declared righteous by observing the law. That is the conclusion

The power of sin is the law 1 cor15:56

God did an amazing thing. He transferred the law he desires you to keep from an external written down law to an internal law written on tablets of human hearts. By doing that, the christian in their heart wants to obey God
Only because That has happened God then removed the true power of sin from the christians life. A law of righteousness.
What happens if you take somethings power away?
It must weaken
Therefore, the born again christians heartfelt desire to obey can now come to fruition. For what opposes obedience( sin) was dealt a fatal blow by Christs death which removed its true power from the christians life. Hence:
For sin shall no longer be your master, for you are not under law( of righteousness) but under grace
rom6:14

People who preach a righteousness/ justification of law will never understand the true gospel message for they are not spirit filled. Satan has conned them to keep sins true power in place

The new covenant comes in two parts, it must. If it only hinged on Christs death at Calvary the christian would have a licence to sin under the terms of it.
The christian is supernaturally born again of the holy spirit. He writes the law on the mind and pl a ces it on the heart God wants them to keep. The christian has in this sense been born again. They want in their heart to live as God desires the to. No longer can they sin in ignorance or without conscience, all that has gone now they are born again.
Because the christian in their heart wants to obey God, a law of righteousness is not needed. If it I removed it cannot lead to a licence to sin for the born again christian for the law remains intact on their heart
Thus the true power of sin is removed from the believer who in their heart wants to obey God.

What a covenant!!

This is the covenant i will make with them after that time declares the Lord
I will write my laws in their minds
And place them on their hearts
(part one)

Then he adds

Their sins and lawless deeds I will remember no more
( part two)

Jesus told nicodemus:

Ye MUST be born again. It I not an option it is pivotal.
Jesus will be no ones saviour from sin unless they are born again, for he will be no ones saviour from sin unless they in their heart want to live as his Father desires them to live

That's the foundation of the new covenant, that on which it stands

BobRyan said:

Rev 14:12 "The saints KEEP the Commandments of God AND their faith in Jesus"



And the result?

Rev 14:12 "The saints KEEP the Commandments of God AND their faith in Jesus"

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You keep the true power of sin in place. You are not the only one, many non sda churches also have been fooled by satan. He desperately wants a righteousness/ justification of law to be in place for he knows that is where the true power of sin lies.

For through the law I died to the law so that I might live for God

I do not set aside the grace of God, for if righteousness/ justification comes through the law Christ died for nothing

Gal2:19&21

BobRyan said:

That much is true.

And the WORD of God instead of being ignored and despised by the saints - is loved by them

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Very true.
To ignore the removal of a law of righteousness/ justification. To despise that is not what the true saints do.

Some actually believe if they attend all their church meetings, tithe their money, read the bible much, do good deeds, don't get drunk, use foul language or have extra marital affairs they will attain heaven on that basis.
They need to read their bibles. The Pharisees of Jesus day would have passed those tests with flying colours, but they didn't know God

jimmyjimmy said:

Wouldn't a great prophet of the Lord be consistent?

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hhmmm, that's a strange comment-----a "great" prophet of the Lord? As opposed to what?--a not so great one?-
What is inconsistent? salvation is by grace alone----however, quote one verse that states if you break the commandments and are unrepentant you will still be saved.

Mat_19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
Mat_22:40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.
Mar_10:19 Thou knowest the commandments, Do not commit adultery, Do not kill, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Defraud not, Honour thy father and mother.
Mar_12:29 And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord:
Luk_18:20 Thou knowest the commandments, Do not commit adultery, Do not kill, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Honour thy father and thy mother.
Joh_14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.
Joh_14:21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.
Joh_15:10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.
1Co_7:19 Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but the keeping of the commandments of God.
1Co_14:37 If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord.
Eph_2:15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;
1Th_4:2 For ye know what commandments we gave you by the Lord Jesus.
1Jn_2:3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
1Jn_2:4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
1Jn_3:22 And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight.
1Jn_3:24 And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us.
1Jn_5:2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.
1Jn_5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.
2Jn_1:6 And this is love, that we walk after his commandments. This is the commandment, That, as ye have heard from the beginning, ye should walk in it.
Rev_12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.
Rev_14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.
Rev_22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

If the bible says salvation is by grace, is it inconsistent with what all these verses say? We keep His commandments out of love for God and man but merely keeping them will not save you if you do not keep them out of that love in our hearts. Not hard to understand.

The question in each DENOMINATION is not what do some of the congregation believe, but what does that DENOMINATION teach. People change DENOMINATIONS, some belonged to many different ones. What some individuals in any of these denominations do or do not in accordance the teachings of that denomination is not what determines what the denomination actually teaches.
We, as a denomination do not believe that keeping the commandments will save you---do not understand why that is so hard to understand. In accordance with the bible, as those verses in post # 115 attest---you can be lost by not keeping them and being unrepentant about it. Somebody please explain why that is so hard to understand? My 12 year old niece understood it. You do not keep them to be saved, you automatically keep them when you are saved. Because you are saved you keep them and you do the things God asks of you.
No one yet has shown one verse that says there are now 9 commandments, no one has provided any prove where any man can wipe out a command of God, if God wrote it with His own finger, He will be the one to cross it out and where did Jesus say that there are now only 9? No one has provided any support for believing that if you break any commandment and are unrepentant, you will still get to be in the kingdom of God. This argument will end with a quote from Jesus saying you can willfully break any commandment and you will be with Him anyway.
Salvation is by grace, because you are now saved you keep His commandments out of love for God and man, and there are 10 of them not 9. That goes for whatever DENOMINATION anyone is.

BobRyan said:

So you think that some believe that if they just don't take God's name in vain that they will "attain heaven"?

Is that because you think that taking God's name in vain is just no big deal and that one would only comply with that part of God's Word if they wanted to "attain heaven without the Gospel"??

Is that really the form of argument you wish to present to us??

Seriously??

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It never ceases to amaze me how those who earnestly stress the law must be obeyed appear to have no problem continually breaking it themselves

BobRyan said:

Rev 14:12 "The saints KEEP the Commandments of God AND their faith in Jesus"



And the result?

Rev 14:12 "The saints KEEP the Commandments of God AND their faith in Jesus"



Now see? That wasn't so hard after all.

But then we "go back to this"

In response to --

Rev 14:12 "The saints KEEP the Commandments of God AND their faith in Jesus"



Is this your way of agreeing with Rev 14:12 -- or attacking it??

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But I'm not the one continually bearing false witness am I, you are.
Therefore who is keeping the commandment and who is not?
A good example of who's way brings better obedience