Why do people like Seventh-day Adventist and Adventist doctrine?

stuart lawrence · Dec 15, 2016

BobRyan said:
ok - well then we do agree on something.

now you are back to false accusation as the "substance" in our post again ... why keep doing that?

What was the main accusation the Pharisees levelled at Jesus?.
He was ignoring the law.
Why was Stephen arrested and subsequent killed?
One reason, he was supposedly ignoring the law
Paul wrote:

Brothers if i am still preaching circumcision( ie law) why am i still being persecuted. In that case the offence of the cross has been abolished gal5:11

Paul was persecuted for not preaching law/ supposedly ignoring the law

The religious of NT times who had shut their eyes and closed their ears to the truth accused those who accepted and understood the truth of ignoring the law

It is the same today of course

Those who have shut their eyes and closed their ears to the truth accuse those who accept the truth of ignoring the law

BobRyan · Dec 17, 2016

mark wright said:
I will simply address the first post of mine you responded to in the above, cant copy/ paste am on a Mobil.
Either you are unable to understand the point made, or you deliberately state I believe what i have never stated. I am quite sure in my own mind which of the two it is
You don't strike me as an unintelligent chap

I have no problem at all with your having a different POV than I do -- we can simply agree to look at the actual Bible details.

For example -

notice how explicitly NT authors not only affirm the Commandments of God - but quote from them to help those who might wonder if the TEN Commandments should be included?

================= notice the "Bible details"

In Matt 22 Jesus affirms OT - LAW and scripture
"Love God with all your heart" Deut 6:5
"Love your neighbor as yourself" Lev 19:18
Matt 22 "On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets.

Matt 22
34 But when the Pharisees heard that He had silenced the Sadducees, they gathered together. 35 Then one of them, a lawyer, asked Him a question, testing Him, and saying, 36 “Teacher, which is the great commandment in the law?”
37 Jesus said to him, “‘You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.’ (Deut 6:5) 38 This is the first and great commandment. 39 And the second is like it: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ (Lev 19:18) 40 On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets.”

The firm foundation for the LAW and the prophets - LOVE.

TEN COMMANDMENTS AFFIRMED in NT

Matt 19
And someone came to Him and said;Teacher, what good thing shall I do that I may obtain eternal life 17 And He said to him, Why are you asking Me about what is good? There is only One who is good; but if you wish to enter into life, keep the commandments; 18 Then he *said to Him, Which ones? And Jesus said,
You shall not commit murder;
You shall not commit adultery;
You shall not steal;
You shall not bear false witness;
19 Honor your father and mother;
and
You shall love your neighbor as yourself

"what matters is Keeping the Commandments of God" 1Cor 7:19

"Love Me and KEEP My Commandments" Ex 20:6
"If you LOVE Me KEEP My Commandments" John 14:15

Matt 5
17 Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill. 18 For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled. 19 Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

"do we then make void the Law of God by our faith? God forbid! In fact we ESTABLISH the LAW" Rom 3:31

What law? The Law that condemns all mankind as sinners -

Rom 3
19 Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.
20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;

That same law - same chapter

"do we then make void the Law of God by our faith? God forbid! In fact we ESTABLISH the LAW" Rom 3:31

Any part of scripture read could fall under that title.

Acts 13:15 And after the reading of the Law and the Prophets, the rulers of the synagogue sent to them, saying, Men and brethren, if you have any word of exhortation for the people, say on.

=================================

Rom 7
7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.
8 But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead.
9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.
12 So then, the Law is holy, and the commandment is holy and righteous and good.
13 Therefore did that which is good become a cause of death for me? May it never be! Rather it was sin, in order that it might be shown to be sin by effecting my death through that which is good, so that through the commandment sin would become utterly sinful.
14 For we know that the Law is spiritual, but I am of flesh, sold into bondage to sin. 15 For what I am doing, I do not understand; for I am not practicing what I would like to do, but I am doing the very thing I hate. 16 But if I do the very thing I do not want to do, I agree with the Law, confessing that the Law is good.

Rom 13 NKJV
8 Owe no one anything except to love one another, for he who loves another has fulfilled the law.
9 For the commandments,
“You shall not commit adultery,”
“You shall not murder,”
“You shall not steal,”
“You shall not bear false witness,”
“You shall not covet,” and if there is any other commandment, are all summed up in this saying, namely, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” 10 Love does no harm to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.

Rom 13 HCSB - Holman Bible
8 Do not owe anyone anything, except to love one another, for the one who loves another has fulfilled the law.
9 The commandments:
Do not commit adultery;
do not murder;
do not steal;
do not covet;
and whatever other commandment—all are summed up by this: Love your neighbor as yourself.
10 Love does no wrong to a neighbor. Love, therefore, is the fulfillment of the law.

Romans 2
14 For when Gentiles who do not have the Law.

13 (for not the hearers of the law are just in the sight of God, but the doers of the law will be justified; 14 for when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do the things in the law, these, although not having the law, are a law to themselves, 15 who show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and between themselves their thoughts accusing or else excusing them) 16 in the day when God will judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ, according to my gospel.
...
25 For circumcision is indeed profitable if you keep the law; but if you are a breaker of the law, your circumcision has become uncircumcision. 26 Therefore, if an uncircumcised man keeps the righteous requirements of the law, will not his uncircumcision be counted as circumcision? 27 And will not the physically uncircumcised, if he fulfills the law, judge you who, even with your written code and circumcision, are a transgressor of the law? 28 For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly, nor is circumcision that which is outward in the flesh; 29 but he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the Spirit, not in the letter; whose praise is not from men but from God.

Rom 3
19 Now we know that whatever the Law says, it speaks to those who are under the Law, so that every mouth may be closed and all the world may become accountable to God; 20 because by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified in His sight; for through the Law comes the knowledge of sin.

"Sin IS transgression of the Law" 1 John 3:4
"ALL have sinned" Romans 3:23

Both Jews AND Gentiles are explicitly included in Romans 2 --
4 Or do you think lightly of the riches of His kindness and tolerance and patience, not knowing that the kindness of God leads you to repentance? 5 But because of your stubbornness and unrepentant heart you are storing up wrath for yourself in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God, 6 who will render to each person according to his deeds: 7 to those who by perseverance in doing good seek for glory and honor and immortality, eternal life; 8 but to those who are selfishly ambitious and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, wrath and indignation. 9 There will be tribulation and distress for every soul of man who does evil, of the Jew first and also of the Greek, 10 but glory and honor and peace to everyone who does good, to the Jew first and also to the Greek. 11 For there is no partiality with God.

Eph 6: 2 Honor your father and mother (which is the first commandment with a promise), -- the 5th commandment in that still-valid "unit of ten" is the "FIRST commandment with a promise.

James 2
8 If, however, you are fulfilling the royal law according to the Scripture, ou shall love your neighbor as yourself, (Lev 19:18) you are doing well.
9 But if you show partiality, you are committing sin and are convicted by the law as transgressors. 10 For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles in one point, he has become guilty of all.
11 For He who said, [/FONT]
Do not commit adultery
also said,
Do not commit murder.
Now if you do not commit adultery, but do commit murder, you have become a transgressor of the law.
12 So speak and so act as those who are to be judged by the law of liberty

stuart lawrence said:
What was the main accusation the Pharisees levelled at Jesus?.
He was ignoring the law.

Shall we join them in that false accusation against Christ - or shall we notice Christ's answer to them in Mark 7:6-13... that it is THEY who are the Law breakers.??

We saw it here

BobRyan said:
Here we have Christ addressing the issue of 'diminishing' the commandments of God -- one of the actual TEN.

Mark 7
6 And He said to them, “Rightly did Isaiah prophesy of you hypocrites, as it is written:
‘This people honors Me with their lips,
But their heart is far away from Me.
7 ‘But in vain do they worship Me,
Teaching as doctrines the precepts of men.’
8 Neglecting the commandment of God, you hold to the tradition of men.”
9 He was also saying to them, “You are experts at setting aside the commandment of God in order to keep your tradition. 10 For Moses said, ‘Honor your father and your mother’; and, ‘He who speaks evil of father or mother, is to be put to death’; 11 but you say, ‘If a man says to his father or his mother, whatever I have that would help you is Corban (that is to say, given to God),’ 12 you no longer permit him to do anything for his father or his mother; 13 thus invalidating the word of God by your tradition which you have handed down; and you do many things such as that.”

Commandment of God = Word of God = Moses Said -- with example being a quote from the TEN commandments.
Eph 6:2 the 5th commandment "is the FIRST commandment WITH a promise" in that still-valid unique list of TEN

In that quote Jesus charges that no insult/diminish to God's commandments is allowed and it is THEY who are guilty of it - not Him

Mark 7
6 And He said to them, “Rightly did Isaiah prophesy of you hypocrites, as it is written:
‘This people honors Me with their lips,
But their heart is far away from Me.
7 ‘But in vain do they worship Me,
Teaching as doctrines the precepts of men.’
8 Neglecting the commandment of God, you hold to the tradition of men.”
9 He was also saying to them, “You are experts at setting aside the commandment of God in order to keep your tradition. 10 For Moses said, ‘Honor your father and your mother’; and, ‘He who speaks evil of father or mother, is to be put to death’; 11 but you say, ‘If a man says to his father or his mother, whatever I have that would help you is Corban (that is to say, given to God),’ 12 you no longer permit him to do anything for his father or his mother; 13 thus invalidating the word of God by your tradition which you have handed down; and you do many things such as that.”

stuart lawrence said:
Why was Stephen arrested and subsequent killed?
One reason, he was supposedly ignoring the law

Indeed - they falsely accuse Stephen after having falsely accused Christ and the Disciples. They accused Stephen of "speaking against God and against Moses" --

Christ in Mark 7 accuses the Jews of violating the law that "Moses said".

Who shall we believe? Christ? or the accusers??

stuart lawrence · Dec 17, 2016

Q

BobRyan said:
I have no problem at all with your having a different POV than I do -- we can simply agree to look at the actual Bible details.

For example -

notice how explicitly NT authors not only affirm the Commandments of God - but quote from them to help those who might wonder if the TEN Commandments should be included?

================= notice the "Bible details"

In Matt 22 Jesus affirms OT - LAW and scripture
"Love God with all your heart" Deut 6:5
"Love your neighbor as yourself" Lev 19:18
Matt 22 "On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets.

Matt 22
34 But when the Pharisees heard that He had silenced the Sadducees, they gathered together. 35 Then one of them, a lawyer, asked Him a question, testing Him, and saying, 36 “Teacher, which is the great commandment in the law?”
37 Jesus said to him, “‘You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.’ (Deut 6:5) 38 This is the first and great commandment. 39 And the second is like it: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ (Lev 19:18) 40 On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets.”

The firm foundation for the LAW and the prophets - LOVE.

TEN COMMANDMENTS AFFIRMED in NT

Matt 19
And someone came to Him and said;Teacher, what good thing shall I do that I may obtain eternal life 17 And He said to him, Why are you asking Me about what is good? There is only One who is good; but if you wish to enter into life, keep the commandments; 18 Then he *said to Him, Which ones? And Jesus said,
You shall not commit murder;
You shall not commit adultery;
You shall not steal;
You shall not bear false witness;
19 Honor your father and mother;
and
You shall love your neighbor as yourself

"what matters is Keeping the Commandments of God" 1Cor 7:19

"Love Me and KEEP My Commandments" Ex 20:6
"If you LOVE Me KEEP My Commandments" John 14:15

Matt 5
17 Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill. 18 For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled. 19 Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

"do we then make void the Law of God by our faith? God forbid! In fact we ESTABLISH the LAW" Rom 3:31

What law? The Law that condemns all mankind as sinners -

Rom 3
19 Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.
20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;

That same law - same chapter

"do we then make void the Law of God by our faith? God forbid! In fact we ESTABLISH the LAW" Rom 3:31

Any part of scripture read could fall under that title.

Acts 13:15 And after the reading of the Law and the Prophets, the rulers of the synagogue sent to them, saying, Men and brethren, if you have any word of exhortation for the people, say on.

=================================

Rom 7
7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.
8 But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead.
9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.
12 So then, the Law is holy, and the commandment is holy and righteous and good.
13 Therefore did that which is good become a cause of death for me? May it never be! Rather it was sin, in order that it might be shown to be sin by effecting my death through that which is good, so that through the commandment sin would become utterly sinful.
14 For we know that the Law is spiritual, but I am of flesh, sold into bondage to sin. 15 For what I am doing, I do not understand; for I am not practicing what I would like to do, but I am doing the very thing I hate. 16 But if I do the very thing I do not want to do, I agree with the Law, confessing that the Law is good.

Rom 13 NKJV
8 Owe no one anything except to love one another, for he who loves another has fulfilled the law.
9 For the commandments,
“You shall not commit adultery,”
“You shall not murder,”
“You shall not steal,”
“You shall not bear false witness,”
“You shall not covet,” and if there is any other commandment, are all summed up in this saying, namely, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” 10 Love does no harm to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.

Rom 13 HCSB - Holman Bible
8 Do not owe anyone anything, except to love one another, for the one who loves another has fulfilled the law.
9 The commandments:
Do not commit adultery;
do not murder;
do not steal;
do not covet;
and whatever other commandment—all are summed up by this: Love your neighbor as yourself.
10 Love does no wrong to a neighbor. Love, therefore, is the fulfillment of the law.

Romans 2
14 For when Gentiles who do not have the Law.

13 (for not the hearers of the law are just in the sight of God, but the doers of the law will be justified; 14 for when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do the things in the law, these, although not having the law, are a law to themselves, 15 who show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and between themselves their thoughts accusing or else excusing them) 16 in the day when God will judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ, according to my gospel.
...
25 For circumcision is indeed profitable if you keep the law; but if you are a breaker of the law, your circumcision has become uncircumcision. 26 Therefore, if an uncircumcised man keeps the righteous requirements of the law, will not his uncircumcision be counted as circumcision? 27 And will not the physically uncircumcised, if he fulfills the law, judge you who, even with your written code and circumcision, are a transgressor of the law? 28 For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly, nor is circumcision that which is outward in the flesh; 29 but he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the Spirit, not in the letter; whose praise is not from men but from God.

Rom 3
19 Now we know that whatever the Law says, it speaks to those who are under the Law, so that every mouth may be closed and all the world may become accountable to God; 20 because by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified in His sight; for through the Law comes the knowledge of sin.

"Sin IS transgression of the Law" 1 John 3:4
"ALL have sinned" Romans 3:23

Both Jews AND Gentiles are explicitly included in Romans 2 --
4 Or do you think lightly of the riches of His kindness and tolerance and patience, not knowing that the kindness of God leads you to repentance? 5 But because of your stubbornness and unrepentant heart you are storing up wrath for yourself in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God, 6 who will render to each person according to his deeds: 7 to those who by perseverance in doing good seek for glory and honor and immortality, eternal life; 8 but to those who are selfishly ambitious and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, wrath and indignation. 9 There will be tribulation and distress for every soul of man who does evil, of the Jew first and also of the Greek, 10 but glory and honor and peace to everyone who does good, to the Jew first and also to the Greek. 11 For there is no partiality with God.

Eph 6: 2 Honor your father and mother (which is the first commandment with a promise), -- the 5th commandment in that still-valid "unit of ten" is the "FIRST commandment with a promise.

James 2
8 If, however, you are fulfilling the royal law according to the Scripture, ou shall love your neighbor as yourself, (Lev 19:18) you are doing well.
9 But if you show partiality, you are committing sin and are convicted by the law as transgressors. 10 For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles in one point, he has become guilty of all.
11 For He who said, [/FONT]
Do not commit adultery
also said,
Do not commit murder.
Now if you do not commit adultery, but do commit murder, you have become a transgressor of the law.
12 So speak and so act as those who are to be judged by the law of liberty

Shall we join them in that false accusation against Christ - or shall we notice Christ's answer to them in Mark 7:6-13... that it is THEY who are the Law breakers.??

We saw it here

In that quote Jesus charges that no insult/diminish to God's commandments is allowed and it is THEY who are guilty of it - not Him

Mark 7
6 And He said to them, “Rightly did Isaiah prophesy of you hypocrites, as it is written:
‘This people honors Me with their lips,
But their heart is far away from Me.
7 ‘But in vain do they worship Me,
Teaching as doctrines the precepts of men.’
8 Neglecting the commandment of God, you hold to the tradition of men.”
9 He was also saying to them, “You are experts at setting aside the commandment of God in order to keep your tradition. 10 For Moses said, ‘Honor your father and your mother’; and, ‘He who speaks evil of father or mother, is to be put to death’; 11 but you say, ‘If a man says to his father or his mother, whatever I have that would help you is Corban (that is to say, given to God),’ 12 you no longer permit him to do anything for his father or his mother; 13 thus invalidating the word of God by your tradition which you have handed down; and you do many things such as that.”

Indeed - they falsely accuse Stephen after having falsely accused Christ and the Disciples. They accused Stephen of "speaking against God and against Moses" --

Christ in Mark 7 accuses the Jews of violating the law that "Moses said".

Who shall we believe? Christ? or the accusers??

You have relentlessly stressed the written code, the same verses you always stress .
However, obedience, according to the NT is not looking to the written code, the christian is released from it, they serve in the new way of the Spirit, they have been released from the law/ they die to the law.
Yes, by following the truth we live evermore as God wants us to live. But you believe following the truth is looking to the written code, that is not the message.
I have continuously proved this to be the case from scripture quoted. I see no point in doing so again for you simply ignore what is placed before you and keep coming back with the letter of commandments/ the written code
Actually you water down the law.
Don't keep stating:
You shall not commit adultery. State:
If you look at a woman with lust in your eye you have already committed adultery with her in your heart.
Why not bring the law to it's pristine level?
If you have an impure thought you break the tenth commandment.
When you fail to obey the law relating to the inner man, the law only God knows you break, this is normally breaking the tenth commandment also

Paul didn't refer to the TC as the letter that kills and the ministry of death and condemnation for nothing. He understood the true demands of that law. Many today appear not to have that understanding.

BobRyan · Dec 17, 2016

Eph 6: 2 Honor your father and mother (which is the first commandment with a promise), -- the 5th commandment in that still-valid "unit of ten" is the "FIRST commandment with a promise.

James 2
8 If, however, you are fulfilling the royal law according to the Scripture, ou shall love your neighbor as yourself, (Lev 19:18) you are doing well.
9 But if you show partiality, you are committing sin and are convicted by the law as transgressors. 10 For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles in one point, he has become guilty of all.
11 For He who said, [/FONT]
Do not commit adultery
also said,
Do not commit murder.
Now if you do not commit adultery, but do commit murder, you have become a transgressor of the law.
12 So speak and so act as those who are to be judged by the law of liberty

stuart lawrence said:
What was the main accusation the Pharisees levelled at Jesus?.
He was ignoring the law.

Shall we join them in that false accusation against Christ - or shall we notice Christ's answer to them in Mark 7:6-13... that it is THEY who are the Law breakers.??

We saw it here

BobRyan said:
Here we have Christ addressing the issue of 'diminishing' the commandments of God -- one of the actual TEN.

Mark 7
6 And He said to them, “Rightly did Isaiah prophesy of you hypocrites, as it is written:
‘This people honors Me with their lips,
But their heart is far away from Me.
7 ‘But in vain do they worship Me,
Teaching as doctrines the precepts of men.’
8 Neglecting the commandment of God, you hold to the tradition of men.”
9 He was also saying to them, “You are experts at setting aside the commandment of God in order to keep your tradition. 10 For Moses said, ‘Honor your father and your mother’; and, ‘He who speaks evil of father or mother, is to be put to death’; 11 but you say, ‘If a man says to his father or his mother, whatever I have that would help you is Corban (that is to say, given to God),’ 12 you no longer permit him to do anything for his father or his mother; 13 thus invalidating the word of God by your tradition which you have handed down; and you do many things such as that.”

Commandment of God = Word of God = Moses Said -- with example being a quote from the TEN commandments.
Eph 6:2 the 5th commandment "is the FIRST commandment WITH a promise" in that still-valid unique list of TEN

In that quote Jesus charges that no insult/diminish to God's commandments is allowed and it is THEY who are guilty of it - not Him

Mark 7
6 And He said to them, “Rightly did Isaiah prophesy of you hypocrites, as it is written:
‘This people honors Me with their lips,
But their heart is far away from Me.
7 ‘But in vain do they worship Me,
Teaching as doctrines the precepts of men.’
8 Neglecting the commandment of God, you hold to the tradition of men.”
9 He was also saying to them, “You are experts at setting aside the commandment of God in order to keep your tradition. 10 For Moses said, ‘Honor your father and your mother’; and, ‘He who speaks evil of father or mother, is to be put to death’; 11 but you say, ‘If a man says to his father or his mother, whatever I have that would help you is Corban (that is to say, given to God),’ 12 you no longer permit him to do anything for his father or his mother; 13 thus invalidating the word of God by your tradition which you have handed down; and you do many things such as that.”

stuart lawrence said:
Why was Stephen arrested and subsequent killed?
One reason, he was supposedly ignoring the law

Indeed - they falsely accuse Stephen after having falsely accused Christ and the Disciples. They accused Stephen of "speaking against God and against Moses" --

Christ in Mark 7 accuses the Jews of violating the law that "Moses said".

Who shall we believe? Christ? or the accusers??

stuart lawrence said:
You have relentlessly stressed the written code, the same verses you always stress .

The mere quote of the text is sufficient cause to give rise to strong objection to it.

stuart lawrence said:
Q
However, obedience, according to the NT is not looking to the written code, the christian is released from it,

Taking a look at one of the many texts you are ignoring in the post you respond to we see this.

Eph 6: 2 Honor your father and mother (which is the first commandment with a promise), -- the 5th commandment in that still-valid "unit of ten" is the "FIRST commandment with a promise

A very specific reference to the very written code of the TEN commandments - that you claim should not be used this way by NT authors such as Paul.

Were we simply "not suppose to notice"??

That LAW of God is "written on the heart and mind" under the Jeremiah 31:31-33 NEW Covenant.

We are - New Covenant Christians. period.

stuart lawrence · Dec 17, 2016

BobRyan said:
Eph 6: 2 Honor your father and mother (which is the first commandment with a promise), -- the 5th commandment in that still-valid "unit of ten" is the "FIRST commandment with a promise.

James 2
8 If, however, you are fulfilling the royal law according to the Scripture, ou shall love your neighbor as yourself, (Lev 19:18) you are doing well.
9 But if you show partiality, you are committing sin and are convicted by the law as transgressors. 10 For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles in one point, he has become guilty of all.
11 For He who said, [/FONT]
Do not commit adultery
also said,
Do not commit murder.
Now if you do not commit adultery, but do commit murder, you have become a transgressor of the law.
12 So speak and so act as those who are to be judged by the law of liberty

Shall we join them in that false accusation against Christ - or shall we notice Christ's answer to them in Mark 7:6-13... that it is THEY who are the Law breakers.??

We saw it here

In that quote Jesus charges that no insult/diminish to God's commandments is allowed and it is THEY who are guilty of it - not Him

Mark 7
6 And He said to them, “Rightly did Isaiah prophesy of you hypocrites, as it is written:
‘This people honors Me with their lips,
But their heart is far away from Me.
7 ‘But in vain do they worship Me,
Teaching as doctrines the precepts of men.’
8 Neglecting the commandment of God, you hold to the tradition of men.”
9 He was also saying to them, “You are experts at setting aside the commandment of God in order to keep your tradition. 10 For Moses said, ‘Honor your father and your mother’; and, ‘He who speaks evil of father or mother, is to be put to death’; 11 but you say, ‘If a man says to his father or his mother, whatever I have that would help you is Corban (that is to say, given to God),’ 12 you no longer permit him to do anything for his father or his mother; 13 thus invalidating the word of God by your tradition which you have handed down; and you do many things such as that.”

Indeed - they falsely accuse Stephen after having falsely accused Christ and the Disciples. They accused Stephen of "speaking against God and against Moses" --

Christ in Mark 7 accuses the Jews of violating the law that "Moses said".

Who shall we believe? Christ? or the accusers??

The mere quote of the text is sufficient cause to give rise to strong objection to it.

Taking a look at one of the many texts you are ignoring in the post you respond to we see this.

Eph 6: 2 Honor your father and mother (which is the first commandment with a promise), -- the 5th commandment in that still-valid "unit of ten" is the "FIRST commandment with a promise

A very specific reference to the very written code of the TEN commandments - that you claim should not be used this way by NT authors such as Paul.

Were we simply "not suppose to notice"??

That LAW of God is "written on the heart and mind" under the Jeremiah 31:31-33 NEW Covenant.

We are - New Covenant Christians. period.

You are not a new covenant Christian if you relentlessly quote the written code as the way of obedience.
Yes, the Pharisees were the worst lawbreakers of all! Glad you mentioned that.
They earnestly stressed you must obey the written code. It is always the same result. Those who do this least reflect in their lives what Christ termed the higher points of the law, and on the inside they are full of wickedness, hypocrisy and everything unclean.
If you want to be a new covenant Christian tell people they are released from the law, they die to it and follow after the Holy Spirit.
Tell them what the NT states
The TC are the letter Tha kills, the ministry of death and condemnation.
Tell people sin shall not be their master for they are not under law but under grace.
Then you will be giving the NC message.
To keep referencing the written code as the way of obedience is not the new covenant, but the old one

stuart lawrence · Dec 17, 2016

BobRyan said:
Eph 6: 2 Honor your father and mother (which is the first commandment with a promise), -- the 5th commandment in that still-valid "unit of ten" is the "FIRST commandment with a promise.

James 2
8 If, however, you are fulfilling the royal law according to the Scripture, ou shall love your neighbor as yourself, (Lev 19:18) you are doing well.
9 But if you show partiality, you are committing sin and are convicted by the law as transgressors. 10 For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles in one point, he has become guilty of all.
11 For He who said, [/FONT]
Do not commit adultery
also said,
Do not commit murder.
Now if you do not commit adultery, but do commit murder, you have become a transgressor of the law.
12 So speak and so act as those who are to be judged by the law of liberty

Shall we join them in that false accusation against Christ - or shall we notice Christ's answer to them in Mark 7:6-13... that it is THEY who are the Law breakers.??

We saw it here

In that quote Jesus charges that no insult/diminish to God's commandments is allowed and it is THEY who are guilty of it - not Him

Mark 7
6 And He said to them, “Rightly did Isaiah prophesy of you hypocrites, as it is written:
‘This people honors Me with their lips,
But their heart is far away from Me.
7 ‘But in vain do they worship Me,
Teaching as doctrines the precepts of men.’
8 Neglecting the commandment of God, you hold to the tradition of men.”
9 He was also saying to them, “You are experts at setting aside the commandment of God in order to keep your tradition. 10 For Moses said, ‘Honor your father and your mother’; and, ‘He who speaks evil of father or mother, is to be put to death’; 11 but you say, ‘If a man says to his father or his mother, whatever I have that would help you is Corban (that is to say, given to God),’ 12 you no longer permit him to do anything for his father or his mother; 13 thus invalidating the word of God by your tradition which you have handed down; and you do many things such as that.”

Indeed - they falsely accuse Stephen after having falsely accused Christ and the Disciples. They accused Stephen of "speaking against God and against Moses" --

Christ in Mark 7 accuses the Jews of violating the law that "Moses said".

Who shall we believe? Christ? or the accusers??

The mere quote of the text is sufficient cause to give rise to strong objection to it.

Taking a look at one of the many texts you are ignoring in the post you respond to we see this.

Eph 6: 2 Honor your father and mother (which is the first commandment with a promise), -- the 5th commandment in that still-valid "unit of ten" is the "FIRST commandment with a promise

A very specific reference to the very written code of the TEN commandments - that you claim should not be used this way by NT authors such as Paul.

Were we simply "not suppose to notice"??

That LAW of God is "written on the heart and mind" under the Jeremiah 31:31-33 NEW Covenant.

We are - New Covenant Christians. period.

Did you and I have the same experience when the holy spirit entered our lives and placed the law within us/ we were born again?
All of a sudden I knew what sin was, I was conscious of it. The christian is called to live a holy life, sin is the barrier between God and man, so naturally I sought to obey the law placed within me. But I knew the full demands of that law, I could not hide from it, for the law had been placed in my most inward parts. I so wanted to fully obey it, but i couldn't. I kept falling short of the standard that law set. This brought guilt and condemnation. I was drowning in despair. Looking to the written code of what had been placed within me made me miserable for it continually reminded me I failed its standard, the burden of sin became too much to bear. I actually became a worse sinner.
But when the truth of the NC finally dawned I looked away from the letter that kills and to Christ, I trusted he was my right standing before the father, not the letter that kills, then i had peace, and the law within that in my heart I wanted to obey was far better upheld, for i was following after the holy Spirit and looking to Christ, not the written code.
I can only assume our respective experiences of being born again were totally different

BobRyan · Dec 18, 2016

Eph 6: 2 Honor your father and mother (which is the first commandment with a promise), -- the 5th commandment in that still-valid "unit of ten" is the "FIRST commandment with a promise.

James 2
8 If, however, you are fulfilling the royal law according to the Scripture, ou shall love your neighbor as yourself, (Lev 19:18) you are doing well.
9 But if you show partiality, you are committing sin and are convicted by the law as transgressors. 10 For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles in one point, he has become guilty of all.
11 For He who said, [/FONT]
Do not commit adultery
also said,
Do not commit murder.
Now if you do not commit adultery, but do commit murder, you have become a transgressor of the law.
12 So speak and so act as those who are to be judged by the law of liberty

stuart lawrence said:
What was the main accusation the Pharisees levelled at Jesus?.
He was ignoring the law.

Shall we join them in that false accusation against Christ - or shall we notice Christ's answer to them in Mark 7:6-13... that it is THEY who are the Law breakers.??

We saw it here

BobRyan said:
Here we have Christ addressing the issue of 'diminishing' the commandments of God -- one of the actual TEN.

Mark 7
6 And He said to them, “Rightly did Isaiah prophesy of you hypocrites, as it is written:
‘This people honors Me with their lips,
But their heart is far away from Me.
7 ‘But in vain do they worship Me,
Teaching as doctrines the precepts of men.’
8 Neglecting the commandment of God, you hold to the tradition of men.”
9 He was also saying to them, “You are experts at setting aside the commandment of God in order to keep your tradition. 10 For Moses said, ‘Honor your father and your mother’; and, ‘He who speaks evil of father or mother, is to be put to death’; 11 but you say, ‘If a man says to his father or his mother, whatever I have that would help you is Corban (that is to say, given to God),’ 12 you no longer permit him to do anything for his father or his mother; 13 thus invalidating the word of God by your tradition which you have handed down; and you do many things such as that.”

Commandment of God = Word of God = Moses Said -- with example being a quote from the TEN commandments.
Eph 6:2 the 5th commandment "is the FIRST commandment WITH a promise" in that still-valid unique list of TEN

In that quote Jesus charges that no insult/diminish to God's commandments is allowed and it is THEY who are guilty of it - not Him

Mark 7
6 And He said to them, “Rightly did Isaiah prophesy of you hypocrites, as it is written:
‘This people honors Me with their lips,
But their heart is far away from Me.
7 ‘But in vain do they worship Me,
Teaching as doctrines the precepts of men.’
8 Neglecting the commandment of God, you hold to the tradition of men.”
9 He was also saying to them, “You are experts at setting aside the commandment of God in order to keep your tradition. 10 For Moses said, ‘Honor your father and your mother’; and, ‘He who speaks evil of father or mother, is to be put to death’; 11 but you say, ‘If a man says to his father or his mother, whatever I have that would help you is Corban (that is to say, given to God),’ 12 you no longer permit him to do anything for his father or his mother; 13 thus invalidating the word of God by your tradition which you have handed down; and you do many things such as that.”

stuart lawrence said:
Why was Stephen arrested and subsequent killed?
One reason, he was supposedly ignoring the law

Indeed - they falsely accuse Stephen after having falsely accused Christ and the Disciples. They accused Stephen of "speaking against God and against Moses" --

Christ in Mark 7 accuses the Jews of violating the law that "Moses said".

Who shall we believe? Christ? or the accusers??

stuart lawrence said:
You have relentlessly stressed the written code, the same verses you always stress .

The mere quote of the text is sufficient cause to give rise to strong objection to it.

stuart lawrence said:
Q
However, obedience, according to the NT is not looking to the written code, the christian is released from it,

Taking a look at one of the many texts you are ignoring in the post you respond to we see this.

Eph 6: 2 Honor your father and mother (which is the first commandment with a promise), -- the 5th commandment in that still-valid "unit of ten" is the "FIRST commandment with a promise

A very specific reference to the very written code of the TEN commandments - that you claim should not be used this way by NT authors such as Paul.

Were we simply "not suppose to notice"??

That LAW of God is "written on the heart and mind" under the Jeremiah 31:31-33 NEW Covenant.

We are - New Covenant Christians. period.

stuart lawrence said:
Did you and I have the same experience when the holy spirit entered our lives and placed the law within us/ we were born again?
All of a sudden I knew what sin was, I was conscious of it.

At war with the commandments of God thinking that you were "doing God a service"? John 16:2?

I offer you details in the "Word of God" and you reject scripture offering us "your feelings" as proof against it. So then is it your claim that your feelings told you to ignore the Word of God whenever it contradicts your preferences??

Andy Stanley in his sermon on the TEN Commandments stated for the Commandment not to take God's name in vain - that one form of breaking that commandment was to claim you had "the feeling" that God told you to break one of the TEN Commandments.

Is this your claim today?

stuart lawrence said:
You are not a new covenant Christian if you relentlessly quote the written code as the way of obedience.

That is utter nonsense and we both know it - since the Commandments of God being quoted - are not by me but it is the NT authors THEMSELVES quoting it - including Paul - it is THEY you are condemning for daring to quote the Word of God where THEY also admit "SIN IS transgression of the LAW" 1 John 3:4. The very focus you condemn.

Your argument is with scripture itself.

You even avoid the statement of Paul in Eph 6:2 in your war against the written word of God so far.

BobRyan · Dec 18, 2016

When I post you ignore almost everything I post as "just so much more scripture to be ignored" - but in so doing - in condemning the content that is so heavily "scripture" you end up condemning scripture itself - offering 'feelings' as the substitute. Why keep doing that? This thread is all about Seventh-day Adventist doctrine as it agrees or differ with other denominations - yet who among any of the readers is going to go with this John 16:2 idea that feelings debunk scripture and obedience to the Word of God?

Paul said it best in Romans 6 and in Romans 2:11-16 - have you read that?

stuart lawrence · Dec 18, 2016

BobRyan said:
When I post you ignore almost everything I post as "just so much more scripture to be ignored" - but in so doing - in condemning the content that is so heavily "scripture" you end up condemning scripture itself - offering 'feelings' as the substitute. Why keep doing that? This thread is all about Seventh-day Adventist doctrine as it agrees or differ with other denominations - yet who among any of the readers is going to go with this John 16:2 idea that feelings debunk scripture and obedience to the Word of God?

Paul said it best in Romans 6 and in Romans 2:11-16 - have you read that?

When I quote scripture you simply ignore it, no matter how much i quote. You are simply condemning scripture are you not?

More than once I have quoted John who states if we obey Gods commands/ ments we do what pleases him and he will give us anything we ask.
Which commands?
Believe on the name of his son Jesus Christ and love one another.
You just ignore it and relentlessly quote the written code.

Paul states we fulfill Christs law by carrying each others burdens, not looking to the written code. You ignore it

When referencing some of the TC Paul does NOT tell us to look to these commands for obedience but rather love fulfills the law, you ignore it.
John and Paul stress loving others, you stress the written code.
Paul states the Christian is released from the law and serves in the new way of the spirit, not the old way of the written code.
You ignore it and keep relentlessly quoting the written code.
You need to accept the true message, not just pluck verses at random without understanding the true message

stuart lawrence · Dec 18, 2016

BobRyan said:
Eph 6: 2 Honor your father and mother (which is the first commandment with a promise), -- the 5th commandment in that still-valid "unit of ten" is the "FIRST commandment with a promise.

James 2
8 If, however, you are fulfilling the royal law according to the Scripture, ou shall love your neighbor as yourself, (Lev 19:18) you are doing well.
9 But if you show partiality, you are committing sin and are convicted by the law as transgressors. 10 For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles in one point, he has become guilty of all.
11 For He who said, [/FONT]
Do not commit adultery
also said,
Do not commit murder.
Now if you do not commit adultery, but do commit murder, you have become a transgressor of the law.
12 So speak and so act as those who are to be judged by the law of liberty

Shall we join them in that false accusation against Christ - or shall we notice Christ's answer to them in Mark 7:6-13... that it is THEY who are the Law breakers.??

We saw it here

In that quote Jesus charges that no insult/diminish to God's commandments is allowed and it is THEY who are guilty of it - not Him

Mark 7
6 And He said to them, “Rightly did Isaiah prophesy of you hypocrites, as it is written:
‘This people honors Me with their lips,
But their heart is far away from Me.
7 ‘But in vain do they worship Me,
Teaching as doctrines the precepts of men.’
8 Neglecting the commandment of God, you hold to the tradition of men.”
9 He was also saying to them, “You are experts at setting aside the commandment of God in order to keep your tradition. 10 For Moses said, ‘Honor your father and your mother’; and, ‘He who speaks evil of father or mother, is to be put to death’; 11 but you say, ‘If a man says to his father or his mother, whatever I have that would help you is Corban (that is to say, given to God),’ 12 you no longer permit him to do anything for his father or his mother; 13 thus invalidating the word of God by your tradition which you have handed down; and you do many things such as that.”

Indeed - they falsely accuse Stephen after having falsely accused Christ and the Disciples. They accused Stephen of "speaking against God and against Moses" --

Christ in Mark 7 accuses the Jews of violating the law that "Moses said".

Who shall we believe? Christ? or the accusers??

The mere quote of the text is sufficient cause to give rise to strong objection to it.

Taking a look at one of the many texts you are ignoring in the post you respond to we see this.

Eph 6: 2 Honor your father and mother (which is the first commandment with a promise), -- the 5th commandment in that still-valid "unit of ten" is the "FIRST commandment with a promise

A very specific reference to the very written code of the TEN commandments - that you claim should not be used this way by NT authors such as Paul.

Were we simply "not suppose to notice"??

That LAW of God is "written on the heart and mind" under the Jeremiah 31:31-33 NEW Covenant.

We are - New Covenant Christians. period.

At war with the commandments of God thinking that you were "doing God a service"? John 16:2?

I offer you details in the "Word of God" and you reject scripture offering us "your feelings" as proof against it. So then is it your claim that your feelings told you to ignore the Word of God whenever it contradicts your preferences??

Andy Stanley in his sermon on the TEN Commandments stated for the Commandment not to take God's name in vain - that one form of breaking that commandment was to claim you had "the feeling" that God told you to break one of the TEN Commandments.

Is this your claim today?

That is utter nonsense and we both know it - since the Commandments of God being quoted - are not by me but it is the NT authors THEMSELVES quoting it - including Paul - it is THEY you are condemning for daring to quote the Word of God where THEY also admit "SIN IS transgression of the LAW" 1 John 3:4. The very focus you condemn.

Your argument is with scripture itself.

You even avoid the statement of Paul in Eph 6:2 in your war against the written word of God so far.

Give me just one verse of scripture, just one where it I stated once the N:C is in operation:
You must obey the TEN Commandments to show your love for God.

Anyone can quote scripture, Muslims do, it doesn't mean you understand the true message.
But you cannot understand it for you are not a Spirit filled Christian.
You follow the written code, not the holy spirit

stuart lawrence · Dec 18, 2016

BobRyan said:
Eph 6: 2 Honor your father and mother (which is the first commandment with a promise), -- the 5th commandment in that still-valid "unit of ten" is the "FIRST commandment with a promise.

James 2
8 If, however, you are fulfilling the royal law according to the Scripture, ou shall love your neighbor as yourself, (Lev 19:18) you are doing well.
9 But if you show partiality, you are committing sin and are convicted by the law as transgressors. 10 For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles in one point, he has become guilty of all.
11 For He who said, [/FONT]
Do not commit adultery
also said,
Do not commit murder.
Now if you do not commit adultery, but do commit murder, you have become a transgressor of the law.
12 So speak and so act as those who are to be judged by the law of liberty

Shall we join them in that false accusation against Christ - or shall we notice Christ's answer to them in Mark 7:6-13... that it is THEY who are the Law breakers.??

We saw it here

In that quote Jesus charges that no insult/diminish to God's commandments is allowed and it is THEY who are guilty of it - not Him

Mark 7
6 And He said to them, “Rightly did Isaiah prophesy of you hypocrites, as it is written:
‘This people honors Me with their lips,
But their heart is far away from Me.
7 ‘But in vain do they worship Me,
Teaching as doctrines the precepts of men.’
8 Neglecting the commandment of God, you hold to the tradition of men.”
9 He was also saying to them, “You are experts at setting aside the commandment of God in order to keep your tradition. 10 For Moses said, ‘Honor your father and your mother’; and, ‘He who speaks evil of father or mother, is to be put to death’; 11 but you say, ‘If a man says to his father or his mother, whatever I have that would help you is Corban (that is to say, given to God),’ 12 you no longer permit him to do anything for his father or his mother; 13 thus invalidating the word of God by your tradition which you have handed down; and you do many things such as that.”

Indeed - they falsely accuse Stephen after having falsely accused Christ and the Disciples. They accused Stephen of "speaking against God and against Moses" --

Christ in Mark 7 accuses the Jews of violating the law that "Moses said".

Who shall we believe? Christ? or the accusers??

The mere quote of the text is sufficient cause to give rise to strong objection to it.

Taking a look at one of the many texts you are ignoring in the post you respond to we see this.

Eph 6: 2 Honor your father and mother (which is the first commandment with a promise), -- the 5th commandment in that still-valid "unit of ten" is the "FIRST commandment with a promise

A very specific reference to the very written code of the TEN commandments - that you claim should not be used this way by NT authors such as Paul.

Were we simply "not suppose to notice"??

That LAW of God is "written on the heart and mind" under the Jeremiah 31:31-33 NEW Covenant.

We are - New Covenant Christians. period.

At war with the commandments of God thinking that you were "doing God a service"? John 16:2?

I offer you details in the "Word of God" and you reject scripture offering us "your feelings" as proof against it. So then is it your claim that your feelings told you to ignore the Word of God whenever it contradicts your preferences??

Andy Stanley in his sermon on the TEN Commandments stated for the Commandment not to take God's name in vain - that one form of breaking that commandment was to claim you had "the feeling" that God told you to break one of the TEN Commandments.

Is this your claim today?

That is utter nonsense and we both know it - since the Commandments of God being quoted - are not by me but it is the NT authors THEMSELVES quoting it - including Paul - it is THEY you are condemning for daring to quote the Word of God where THEY also admit "SIN IS transgression of the LAW" 1 John 3:4. The very focus you condemn.

Your argument is with scripture itself.

You even avoid the statement of Paul in Eph 6:2 in your war against the written word of God so far.

And do you not realise how pointless it is to keep stressing:
You must obey the TC

You agree the law on stone God desires you to keep is written on the mind and placed on the heart of every born again christian. Therefore the christian in their mind knows what that law is and in their heart they want to obey it.
Continually stressing:
You must obey the TC
Is like telling a man who knows he should love his wife:
You must love your wife
But I guess as you believe a person doesn't have to know the law that is written on their mind and placed on their heart that explains it!!!

In fact, keep repeating those commands shows how at heart you follow the OC. Christ taught the true meaning and intent of the law. He upped it so to speak.

Don't dumb down the law to a place you believe you can be justified under it!
BTW
If i was on a computer, not a mobile I would copy/paste far more scripture to prove the truth of the NC, and you would simply keep ignoring it

stuart lawrence · Dec 18, 2016

BobRyan said:
Eph 6: 2 Honor your father and mother (which is the first commandment with a promise), -- the 5th commandment in that still-valid "unit of ten" is the "FIRST commandment with a promise.

James 2
8 If, however, you are fulfilling the royal law according to the Scripture, ou shall love your neighbor as yourself, (Lev 19:18) you are doing well.
9 But if you show partiality, you are committing sin and are convicted by the law as transgressors. 10 For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles in one point, he has become guilty of all.
11 For He who said, [/FONT]
Do not commit adultery
also said,
Do not commit murder.
Now if you do not commit adultery, but do commit murder, you have become a transgressor of the law.
12 So speak and so act as those who are to be judged by the law of liberty

Shall we join them in that false accusation against Christ - or shall we notice Christ's answer to them in Mark 7:6-13... that it is THEY who are the Law breakers.??

We saw it here

In that quote Jesus charges that no insult/diminish to God's commandments is allowed and it is THEY who are guilty of it - not Him

Mark 7
6 And He said to them, “Rightly did Isaiah prophesy of you hypocrites, as it is written:
‘This people honors Me with their lips,
But their heart is far away from Me.
7 ‘But in vain do they worship Me,
Teaching as doctrines the precepts of men.’
8 Neglecting the commandment of God, you hold to the tradition of men.”
9 He was also saying to them, “You are experts at setting aside the commandment of God in order to keep your tradition. 10 For Moses said, ‘Honor your father and your mother’; and, ‘He who speaks evil of father or mother, is to be put to death’; 11 but you say, ‘If a man says to his father or his mother, whatever I have that would help you is Corban (that is to say, given to God),’ 12 you no longer permit him to do anything for his father or his mother; 13 thus invalidating the word of God by your tradition which you have handed down; and you do many things such as that.”

Indeed - they falsely accuse Stephen after having falsely accused Christ and the Disciples. They accused Stephen of "speaking against God and against Moses" --

Christ in Mark 7 accuses the Jews of violating the law that "Moses said".

Who shall we believe? Christ? or the accusers??

The mere quote of the text is sufficient cause to give rise to strong objection to it.

Taking a look at one of the many texts you are ignoring in the post you respond to we see this.

Eph 6: 2 Honor your father and mother (which is the first commandment with a promise), -- the 5th commandment in that still-valid "unit of ten" is the "FIRST commandment with a promise

A very specific reference to the very written code of the TEN commandments - that you claim should not be used this way by NT authors such as Paul.

Were we simply "not suppose to notice"??

That LAW of God is "written on the heart and mind" under the Jeremiah 31:31-33 NEW Covenant.

We are - New Covenant Christians. period.

At war with the commandments of God thinking that you were "doing God a service"? John 16:2?

I offer you details in the "Word of God" and you reject scripture offering us "your feelings" as proof against it. So then is it your claim that your feelings told you to ignore the Word of God whenever it contradicts your preferences??

Andy Stanley in his sermon on the TEN Commandments stated for the Commandment not to take God's name in vain - that one form of breaking that commandment was to claim you had "the feeling" that God told you to break one of the TEN Commandments.

Is this your claim today?

That is utter nonsense and we both know it - since the Commandments of God being quoted - are not by me but it is the NT authors THEMSELVES quoting it - including Paul - it is THEY you are condemning for daring to quote the Word of God where THEY also admit "SIN IS transgression of the LAW" 1 John 3:4. The very focus you condemn.

Your argument is with scripture itself.

You even avoid the statement of Paul in Eph 6:2 in your war against the written word of God so far.

As I said, dont dumb down the law of God!

As you believe christians can sin without being conscious they do so, ensure they understand what breaking the TC entails. Speak the words of Christ who spoke the words of God on this earth

. According to your belief if you don't obey the TC you prove you don't love God so you are going to hell.
Here is a sample of what you should tell people according to your beliefs:

If you look at a woman with lust in your eye you break the seventh and tenth commandments, , therefore you prove you don't love God, you are going to hell.

If you have an impure thought you break the tenth commandment. You prove you don't love God therefore you are going to hell.

If you break the law/sin concerning the law relating to the inner man, the law only God need know you break, this is most of the time breaking the tenth commandment. You prove you don't love God, you are going to hell

In relation to the second most important commandment:

If you only love those who love you, you are the same as the heathen. If you don't love those who malign you. Slander you, mistreat you, hate you, steal from you, you break the law, you prove you don't love God you are condemned to hell.

Why are you not telling people the above? As you believe people can sin without being conscious they do so, it I your responsibility to fully explain your belief to them.
Don't shirk your responsibilities, be bold!!!

BobRyan · Dec 18, 2016

stuart lawrence said:
When I quote scripture you simply ignore it, no matter how much i quote. You are simply condemning scripture are you not?

Not at all since I do not attack the content of the text - whereas you are very specific in arguing that I am quoting the "written code" where in fact the only thing I am quoting is the NT authors quoting the "written code" - as we both well know.

More than once I have quoted John who states if we obey Gods commands/ ments we do what pleases him and he will give us anything we ask.

A quote I never complain about not even the content of it complained about -- as we both well know.

Which commands?

I show where Jesus Christ Himself answers that question in Matt 19 - at which point you claim that the answer he gives is wrong/evil/less-than because He quotes the scriptures - the Word of God - the "written Code".

stuart lawrence · Dec 18, 2016

BobRyan said:
Not at all since I do not attack the content of the text - whereas you are very specific in arguing that I am quoting the "written code" where in fact the only thing I am quoting is the NT authors quoting the "written code" - as we both well know.

A quote I never complain about not even the content of it complained about -- as we both well know.

I show where Jesus Christ Himself answers that question in Matt 19 - at which point you claim that the answer he gives is wrong/evil/less-than because He quotes the scriptures - the Word of God - the "written Code".

Firstly I wrote that you IGNORE the things I mentioned, which is correct. Please stop breaking the ninth commandment. I know you believe we do not have to be conscious we sin when we break the law written on our minds and placed on our hearts, so I am bringing your unconscious state toba conscious state.
As I have not responded to your reference to matt ch19 you once again bear false witness.
You prove my point very well.
Those who look to the written code sin far more than those who do not

BobRyan · Dec 18, 2016

Here is an example of me quoting someone else.

Eph 6: 2 Honor your father and mother (which is the first commandment with a promise), -- the 5th commandment in that still-valid "unit of ten" is the "FIRST commandment with a promise.

James 2
8 If, however, you are fulfilling the royal law according to the Scripture, ou shall love your neighbor as yourself, (Lev 19:18) you are doing well.
9 But if you show partiality, you are committing sin and are convicted by the law as transgressors. 10 For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles in one point, he has become guilty of all.
11 For He who said, [/FONT]
Do not commit adultery
also said,
Do not commit murder.
Now if you do not commit adultery, but do commit murder, you have become a transgressor of the law.
12 So speak and so act as those who are to be judged by the law of liberty

stuart lawrence said:
What was the main accusation the Pharisees levelled at Jesus?.
He was ignoring the law.

Shall we join them in that false accusation against Christ - or shall we notice Christ's answer to them in Mark 7:6-13... that it is THEY who are the Law breakers.??

We saw it here

BobRyan said:
Here we have Christ addressing the issue of 'diminishing' the commandments of God -- one of the actual TEN.

Mark 7
6 And He said to them, “Rightly did Isaiah prophesy of you hypocrites, as it is written:
‘This people honors Me with their lips,
But their heart is far away from Me.
7 ‘But in vain do they worship Me,
Teaching as doctrines the precepts of men.’
8 Neglecting the commandment of God, you hold to the tradition of men.”
9 He was also saying to them, “You are experts at setting aside the commandment of God in order to keep your tradition. 10 For Moses said, ‘Honor your father and your mother’; and, ‘He who speaks evil of father or mother, is to be put to death’; 11 but you say, ‘If a man says to his father or his mother, whatever I have that would help you is Corban (that is to say, given to God),’ 12 you no longer permit him to do anything for his father or his mother; 13 thus invalidating the word of God by your tradition which you have handed down; and you do many things such as that.”

Commandment of God = Word of God = Moses Said -- with example being a quote from the TEN commandments.
Eph 6:2 the 5th commandment "is the FIRST commandment WITH a promise" in that still-valid unique list of TEN

In that quote Jesus charges that no insult/diminish to God's commandments is allowed and it is THEY who are guilty of it - not Him

Mark 7
6 And He said to them, “Rightly did Isaiah prophesy of you hypocrites, as it is written:
‘This people honors Me with their lips,
But their heart is far away from Me.
7 ‘But in vain do they worship Me,
Teaching as doctrines the precepts of men.’
8 Neglecting the commandment of God, you hold to the tradition of men.”
9 He was also saying to them, “You are experts at setting aside the commandment of God in order to keep your tradition. 10 For Moses said, ‘Honor your father and your mother’; and, ‘He who speaks evil of father or mother, is to be put to death’; 11 but you say, ‘If a man says to his father or his mother, whatever I have that would help you is Corban (that is to say, given to God),’ 12 you no longer permit him to do anything for his father or his mother; 13 thus invalidating the word of God by your tradition which you have handed down; and you do many things such as that.”

stuart lawrence said:
As I said, dont dumb down the law of God!

Another great example of your response to NT authors being quoted - taking position you clearly oppose.

As you believe christians can sin without being conscious they do so

John 8 "40 Those of the Pharisees who were with Him heard these things and said to Him, “We are not blind too, are we?” 41 Jesus said to them, “If you were blind, you would have no sin; but since you say, ‘We see,’ your sin remains."
John 16:2 2 They will make you outcasts from the synagogue, but an hour is coming for everyone who kills you to think that he is offering service to God.

. According to your belief if you don't obey the TC you prove you don't love God

Are you quoting 'you' -- or me?

Here is an example of me quoting someone else.

1 John 5
2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and observe His commandments. 3 For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments; and His commandments are not burdensome.

Do you agree with John or do you choose to condemn him?

When Jesus answers the question "which commandments" in Matt 19 -- do you condemn the teaching of Christ at that point ? or agree with Him?

in Christ,
Bob

stuart lawrence · Dec 18, 2016

BobRyan said:
Not at all since I do not attack the content of the text - whereas you are very specific in arguing that I am quoting the "written code" where in fact the only thing I am quoting is the NT authors quoting the "written code" - as we both well know.

A quote I never complain about not even the content of it complained about -- as we both well know.

I show where Jesus Christ Himself answers that question in Matt 19 - at which point you claim that the answer he gives is wrong/evil/less-than because He quotes the scriptures - the Word of God - the "written Code".

BTW
The man who claimed he had kept the commandments since his youth turned round and walked away from Jesus!
You should also realise the conversation took place whilst the O:C was in operation.

To refer to That conversation in response to my question as to which commands John was referring to in 1john ch3 is preposterous, for i gave you the answer:
Believe on the name of the son of God and love one another
When people reply as you are now they only prove they have lost the debate!

stuart lawrence · Dec 18, 2016

BobRyan said:
Eph 6: 2 Honor your father and mother (which is the first commandment with a promise), -- the 5th commandment in that still-valid "unit of ten" is the "FIRST commandment with a promise.

James 2
8 If, however, you are fulfilling the royal law according to the Scripture, ou shall love your neighbor as yourself, (Lev 19:18) you are doing well.
9 But if you show partiality, you are committing sin and are convicted by the law as transgressors. 10 For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles in one point, he has become guilty of all.
11 For He who said, [/FONT]
Do not commit adultery
also said,
Do not commit murder.
Now if you do not commit adultery, but do commit murder, you have become a transgressor of the law.
12 So speak and so act as those who are to be judged by the law of liberty

Shall we join them in that false accusation against Christ - or shall we notice Christ's answer to them in Mark 7:6-13... that it is THEY who are the Law breakers.??

We saw it here

In that quote Jesus charges that no insult/diminish to God's commandments is allowed and it is THEY who are guilty of it - not Him

Mark 7
6 And He said to them, “Rightly did Isaiah prophesy of you hypocrites, as it is written:
‘This people honors Me with their lips,
But their heart is far away from Me.
7 ‘But in vain do they worship Me,
Teaching as doctrines the precepts of men.’
8 Neglecting the commandment of God, you hold to the tradition of men.”
9 He was also saying to them, “You are experts at setting aside the commandment of God in order to keep your tradition. 10 For Moses said, ‘Honor your father and your mother’; and, ‘He who speaks evil of father or mother, is to be put to death’; 11 but you say, ‘If a man says to his father or his mother, whatever I have that would help you is Corban (that is to say, given to God),’ 12 you no longer permit him to do anything for his father or his mother; 13 thus invalidating the word of God by your tradition which you have handed down; and you do many things such as that.”

Another great example of your response to NT authors being quoted - taking position you clearly oppose.

John 8 "40 Those of the Pharisees who were with Him heard these things and said to Him, “We are not blind too, are we?” 41 Jesus said to them, “If you were blind, you would have no sin; but since you say, ‘We see,’ your sin remains."
John 16:2 2 They will make you outcasts from the synagogue, but an hour is coming for everyone who kills you to think that he is offering service to God.

Are you quoting 'you' -- or me?

Here is an example of me quoting someone else.

1 John 5
2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and observe His commandments. 3 For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments; and His commandments are not burdensome.

Do you agree with John or do you choose to condemn him?

When Jesus answers the question "which commandments" in Matt 19 -- do you condemn the teaching of Christ at that point ? or agree with Him?

in Christ,
Bob

As I said, you completely ignore the scriptures I place before you. Once again you prove the truth of what I wrote admirably

stuart lawrence · Dec 18, 2016

BobRyan said:
Eph 6: 2 Honor your father and mother (which is the first commandment with a promise), -- the 5th commandment in that still-valid "unit of ten" is the "FIRST commandment with a promise.

James 2
8 If, however, you are fulfilling the royal law according to the Scripture, ou shall love your neighbor as yourself, (Lev 19:18) you are doing well.
9 But if you show partiality, you are committing sin and are convicted by the law as transgressors. 10 For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles in one point, he has become guilty of all.
11 For He who said, [/FONT]
Do not commit adultery
also said,
Do not commit murder.
Now if you do not commit adultery, but do commit murder, you have become a transgressor of the law.
12 So speak and so act as those who are to be judged by the law of liberty

Shall we join them in that false accusation against Christ - or shall we notice Christ's answer to them in Mark 7:6-13... that it is THEY who are the Law breakers.??

We saw it here

In that quote Jesus charges that no insult/diminish to God's commandments is allowed and it is THEY who are guilty of it - not Him

Mark 7
6 And He said to them, “Rightly did Isaiah prophesy of you hypocrites, as it is written:
‘This people honors Me with their lips,
But their heart is far away from Me.
7 ‘But in vain do they worship Me,
Teaching as doctrines the precepts of men.’
8 Neglecting the commandment of God, you hold to the tradition of men.”
9 He was also saying to them, “You are experts at setting aside the commandment of God in order to keep your tradition. 10 For Moses said, ‘Honor your father and your mother’; and, ‘He who speaks evil of father or mother, is to be put to death’; 11 but you say, ‘If a man says to his father or his mother, whatever I have that would help you is Corban (that is to say, given to God),’ 12 you no longer permit him to do anything for his father or his mother; 13 thus invalidating the word of God by your tradition which you have handed down; and you do many things such as that.”

Another great example of your response to NT authors being quoted - taking position you clearly oppose.

John 8 "40 Those of the Pharisees who were with Him heard these things and said to Him, “We are not blind too, are we?” 41 Jesus said to them, “If you were blind, you would have no sin; but since you say, ‘We see,’ your sin remains."
John 16:2 2 They will make you outcasts from the synagogue, but an hour is coming for everyone who kills you to think that he is offering service to God.

Are you quoting 'you' -- or me?

Here is an example of me quoting someone else.

1 John 5
2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and observe His commandments. 3 For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments; and His commandments are not burdensome.

Do you agree with John or do you choose to condemn him?

When Jesus answers the question "which commandments" in Matt 19 -- do you condemn the teaching of Christ at that point ? or agree with Him?

in Christ,
Bob

Do you know why Jesus called the Pharisees hypocrites, why he said their yeast was hypocrisy?
They did not practice what they preached. Like people today who insist you follow and obey the written code whilst failing to obey it themselves

BobRyan · Dec 18, 2016

stuart lawrence said:
As I said, you completely ignore the scriptures I place before you. Once again you prove the truth of what I wrote admirably

that is your response to Eph 6:2 and all asociated questions in the post related to Eph 6:2 -- "again".

I think you will agree with me - that you can find a great many reasons to avoid these few texts -- as if each time you turn from these texts - they are "answered" and we all "need not notice" that you are not answering any of the questions here.

=========================

Eph 6: 2 Honor your father and mother (which is the first commandment with a promise), -- the 5th commandment in that still-valid "unit of ten" is the "FIRST commandment with a promise.

James 2
8 If, however, you are fulfilling the royal law according to the Scripture, ou shall love your neighbor as yourself, (Lev 19:18) you are doing well.
9 But if you show partiality, you are committing sin and are convicted by the law as transgressors. 10 For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles in one point, he has become guilty of all.
11 For He who said, [/FONT]
Do not commit adultery
also said,
Do not commit murder.
Now if you do not commit adultery, but do commit murder, you have become a transgressor of the law.
12 So speak and so act as those who are to be judged by the law of liberty

stuart lawrence said:
What was the main accusation the Pharisees levelled at Jesus?.
He was ignoring the law.

Shall we join them in that false accusation against Christ - or shall we notice Christ's answer to them in Mark 7:6-13... that it is THEY who are the Law breakers.??

We saw it here

BobRyan said:

Here we have Christ addressing the issue of 'diminishing' the commandments of God -- one of the actual TEN.

Mark 7
6 And He said to them, “Rightly did Isaiah prophesy of you hypocrites, as it is written:
‘This people honors Me with their lips,
But their heart is far away from Me.
7 ‘But in vain do they worship Me,
Teaching as doctrines the precepts of men.’
8 Neglecting the commandment of God, you hold to the tradition of men.”
9 He was also saying to them, “You are experts at setting aside the commandment of God in order to keep your tradition. 10 For Moses said, ‘Honor your father and your mother’; and, ‘He who speaks evil of father or mother, is to be put to death’; 11 but you say, ‘If a man says to his father or his mother, whatever I have that would help you is Corban (that is to say, given to God),’ 12 you no longer permit him to do anything for his father or his mother; 13 thus invalidating the word of God by your tradition which you have handed down; and you do many things such as that.”

Commandment of God = Word of God = Moses Said -- with example being a quote from the TEN commandments.
Eph 6:2 the 5th commandment "is the FIRST commandment WITH a promise" in that still-valid unique list of TEN

Click to expand...

In that quote Jesus charges that no insult/diminish to God's commandments is allowed and it is THEY who are guilty of it - not Him

Mark 7
6 And He said to them, “Rightly did Isaiah prophesy of you hypocrites, as it is written:
‘This people honors Me with their lips,
But their heart is far away from Me.
7 ‘But in vain do they worship Me,
Teaching as doctrines the precepts of men.’
8 Neglecting the commandment of God, you hold to the tradition of men.”
9 He was also saying to them, “You are experts at setting aside the commandment of God in order to keep your tradition. 10 For Moses said, ‘Honor your father and your mother’; and, ‘He who speaks evil of father or mother, is to be put to death’; 11 but you say, ‘If a man says to his father or his mother, whatever I have that would help you is Corban (that is to say, given to God),’ 12 you no longer permit him to do anything for his father or his mother; 13 thus invalidating the word of God by your tradition which you have handed down; and you do many things such as that.”

stuart lawrence said:

As I said, dont dumb down the law of God!

Click to expand...

Another great example of your response to NT authors being quoted - taking position you clearly oppose.

As you believe christians can sin without being conscious they do so

Click to expand...

John 8 "40 Those of the Pharisees who were with Him heard these things and said to Him, “We are not blind too, are we?” 41 Jesus said to them, “If you were blind, you would have no sin; but since you say, ‘We see,’ your sin remains."
John 16:2 2 They will make you outcasts from the synagogue, but an hour is coming for everyone who kills you to think that he is offering service to God.

. According to your belief if you don't obey the TC you prove you don't love God

Click to expand...

Are you quoting 'you' -- or me?

Here is an example of me quoting someone else.

1 John 5
2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and observe His commandments. 3 For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments; and His commandments are not burdensome.

Do you agree with John or do you choose to condemn him?

When Jesus answers the question "which commandments" in Matt 19 -- do you condemn the teaching of Christ at that point ? or agree with Him?

in Christ,
Bob

stuart lawrence · Dec 18, 2016

BobRyan said:
Eph 6: 2 Honor your father and mother (which is the first commandment with a promise), -- the 5th commandment in that still-valid "unit of ten" is the "FIRST commandment with a promise.

James 2
8 If, however, you are fulfilling the royal law according to the Scripture, ou shall love your neighbor as yourself, (Lev 19:18) you are doing well.
9 But if you show partiality, you are committing sin and are convicted by the law as transgressors. 10 For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles in one point, he has become guilty of all.
11 For He who said, [/FONT]
Do not commit adultery
also said,
Do not commit murder.
Now if you do not commit adultery, but do commit murder, you have become a transgressor of the law.
12 So speak and so act as those who are to be judged by the law of liberty

Shall we join them in that false accusation against Christ - or shall we notice Christ's answer to them in Mark 7:6-13... that it is THEY who are the Law breakers.??

We saw it here

In that quote Jesus charges that no insult/diminish to God's commandments is allowed and it is THEY who are guilty of it - not Him

Mark 7
6 And He said to them, “Rightly did Isaiah prophesy of you hypocrites, as it is written:
‘This people honors Me with their lips,
But their heart is far away from Me.
7 ‘But in vain do they worship Me,
Teaching as doctrines the precepts of men.’
8 Neglecting the commandment of God, you hold to the tradition of men.”
9 He was also saying to them, “You are experts at setting aside the commandment of God in order to keep your tradition. 10 For Moses said, ‘Honor your father and your mother’; and, ‘He who speaks evil of father or mother, is to be put to death’; 11 but you say, ‘If a man says to his father or his mother, whatever I have that would help you is Corban (that is to say, given to God),’ 12 you no longer permit him to do anything for his father or his mother; 13 thus invalidating the word of God by your tradition which you have handed down; and you do many things such as that.”

Another great example of your response to NT authors being quoted - taking position you clearly oppose.

John 8 "40 Those of the Pharisees who were with Him heard these things and said to Him, “We are not blind too, are we?” 41 Jesus said to them, “If you were blind, you would have no sin; but since you say, ‘We see,’ your sin remains."
John 16:2 2 They will make you outcasts from the synagogue, but an hour is coming for everyone who kills you to think that he is offering service to God.

Are you quoting 'you' -- or me?

Here is an example of me quoting someone else.

1 John 5
2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and observe His commandments. 3 For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments; and His commandments are not burdensome.

Do you agree with John or do you choose to condemn him?

When Jesus answers the question "which commandments" in Matt 19 -- do you condemn the teaching of Christ at that point ? or agree with Him?

in Christ,
Bob

Do you not believe if a person does not obey the TC this proves they do not love God therefore they are condemned?
A simple question that requires a simple answer

Why do people like Seventh-day Adventist and Adventist doctrine?

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