Why do people like Seventh-day Adventist and Adventist doctrine?

stuart lawrence · Dec 12, 2016

BobRyan said:
True - but the Holy Spirit is not at war against the Word of God -- rather He authored it.

Absolutely he isn't!!!!!

Therefore no one will be declared righteous in his sight by observing the law, rather through the law se become conscious of sin rom3:20

No justification / righteousness of observing the law, which is the same as saying:
No righteousness / justification of not committing sin.

You better ignore this post, it is far beyond your understanding is it not?

stuart lawrence · Dec 12, 2016

BobRyan said:
Indeed --

Romans 6 comes to mind --

Romans 6
What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin so that grace may increase? 2 May it never be! How shall we who died to sin still live in it? 3 Or do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus have been baptized into His death? 4 Therefore we have been buried with Him through baptism into death, so that as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, so we too might walk in newness of life. 5 For if we have become united with Him in the likeness of His death, certainly we shall also be in the likeness of His resurrection, 6 knowing this, that our old self was crucified with Him, in order that our body of sin might be done away with, so that we would no longer be slaves to sin; 7 for he who has died is freed from sin.
..
12 Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body so that you obey its lusts, 13 and do not go on presenting the members of your body to sin as instruments of unrighteousness; but present yourselves to God as those alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness to God. 14 For sin shall not be master over you, for you are not under law but under grace.

15 What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? May it never be! 16 Do you not know that when you present yourselves to someone as slaves for obedience, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin resulting in death, or of obedience resulting in righteousness?

Y

BobRyan said:
Indeed --

Romans 6 comes to mind --

Romans 6
What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin so that grace may increase? 2 May it never be! How shall we who died to sin still live in it? 3 Or do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus have been baptized into His death? 4 Therefore we have been buried with Him through baptism into death, so that as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, so we too might walk in newness of life. 5 For if we have become united with Him in the likeness of His death, certainly we shall also be in the likeness of His resurrection, 6 knowing this, that our old self was crucified with Him, in order that our body of sin might be done away with, so that we would no longer be slaves to sin; 7 for he who has died is freed from sin.
..
12 Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body so that you obey its lusts, 13 and do not go on presenting the members of your body to sin as instruments of unrighteousness; but present yourselves to God as those alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness to God. 14 For sin shall not be master over you, for you are not under law but under grace.

15 What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? May it never be! 16 Do you not know that when you present yourselves to someone as slaves for obedience, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin resulting in death, or of obedience resulting in righteousness?

You first have to understand you have no justification of not committing sin. You do not understand that, therefore what is the point of you going beyond it?
You have to first understand the basics my friend, then move on!!!!

BobRyan · Dec 12, 2016

stuart lawrence said:
If you understand spiritual truth you can explain the message contained in the letter cant you.

Indeed --

Romans 6
What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin so that grace may increase? 2 May it never be! How shall we who died to sin still live in it? 3 Or do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus have been baptized into His death? 4 Therefore we have been buried with Him through baptism into death, so that as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, so we too might walk in newness of life. 5 For if we have become united with Him in the likeness of His death, certainly we shall also be in the likeness of His resurrection, 6 knowing this, that our old self was crucified with Him, in order that our body of sin might be done away with, so that we would no longer be slaves to sin; 7 for he who has died is freed from sin.
..
12 Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body so that you obey its lusts, 13 and do not go on presenting the members of your body to sin as instruments of unrighteousness; but present yourselves to God as those alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness to God. 14 For sin shall not be master over you, for you are not under law but under grace.

15 What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? May it never be! 16 Do you not know that when you present yourselves to someone as slaves for obedience, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin resulting in death, or of obedience resulting in righteousness?

stuart lawrence said:
Y
You first have to understand you have no justification of not committing sin. You do not understand that, therefore what is the point of you going beyond it?
You have to first understand the basics my friend, then move on!!!!

Long on false and factless accusation - short on Bible.

What part of that text do you imagine is soooo difficult for all of us to read?

instead of "see-the-Bible-text" --> "falsely-accuse-whoever-posted-it" - you need something that is 'compelling' to the unbiased objective Bible student.

BobRyan · Dec 12, 2016

The Holy Spirit is not at WAR with the LAW of God -- or the WORD of God.

Rather - HE authored IT!!

stuart lawrence said:
Absolutely he isn't!!!!!

Romans 3
19 Now we know that whatever the Law says, it speaks to those who are under the Law, so that every mouth may be closed and all the world may become accountable to God; 20 because by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified in His sight; for through the Law comes the knowledge of sin.

The STILL-valid LAW of God applies to "EVERY mouth" and "ALL the World" --- STILL even after the cross!

It is the LAW that Paul quotes from in Romans 7 -- the TEN Commandments
It is the LAW that Paul quotes from in Romans 13 - the TEN Commandments
It is the LAW that James quotes from in James 2-- the TEN Commandments
It is the LAW that Paul quotes from in Ephesians 6:2 - the TEN Commandments - where the 5th Commandment "is the FIRST commandment with a promise" - in that STILL valid - unit of TEN.

A Bible detail SO incredibly obvious - even the majority of your own pro-Sunday scholars admit it.

It just does not GET any easier than this!!

To quote someone else on this board --
"You better ignore this post, it is far beyond your understanding is it not?"

BobRyan · Dec 12, 2016

stuart lawrence said:
Y
You first have to understand you have no justification of not committing sin. You do not understand that

Do you make stuff up "on the spot" when you falsely accuse someone - or do you wait and think before you falsely accuse someone??

Rev 12 refers to the devil as the accuser of the brethren. Notice how quick he is in Job 1 and 2 to declare before God that in spite of all that the Gospel claims - Job is still the same ol' evil Job? The devil claims that the supposed good behavior of Job - is merely "false-gospel better-bribed Job" it is not 'The new creation" of the Gospel - it is not the "good tree" of Matt 7 in Satan's POV.

Notice how his "accuser of the brethren" title goes wayyyyy back?

klutedavid · Dec 12, 2016

BobRyan said:
Well first of all there is no such thing as a "young Ellen White at age 9" because at age nine should she would be Ellen Harmon.

Secondly her family was Methodists and the william Miller had no churches, congregations or denomination so she remained in the Methodist church until her local congregation demanded that any methodists that believed in a second coming that was before the millennium - as Miller taught - would need to separate from their local congregation.

So then - home fellowships where a few families that had been excommunicated from various denominations - would meet.

There is no such thing as a 17 year old Ellen White - she would still be "Ellen Harmon" at 17 and still living at home -- in a Methodist home at that. Not Sabbath keeping and not believing in any of the distinctive SDA doctrine.

Hello Bob.

I thought Miller was an adventist?

The Methodists were ten commandment folk anyway.

Are you proposing that the SDA was the only sabbath practicing
church?

BobRyan · Dec 12, 2016

klutedavid said:
Hello Bob.

I thought Miller was an adventist?

A lot of people get that false idea because at the time the 'term" meant "pre-millennial 2nd coming" and concept which almost nobody endorsed - but Miller was one of the first to take it to the streets in America. Even Walter Martin in his book "Kingdom of the Cults" where he states that the SDA church is not a cult - argued that the big problem with Millerites and later Seventh-day ADventists by far - was their insistence on a pre-mill literal 2nd coming.

Mllerites themselves were called "Adventists" and most were Sunday keeping. Most never became "Seventh-day Adventists"

Miller never became a Seventh-day Adventist, never accepted the Sabbath never took our view of the 2300 years and Investigative Judgment event that it points to, never took any of our doctrines developed in the the SDA denomination which organized in the 1860's and never taught or promoted any of the visions of Ellen Harmon (later Ellen White) that started in late 1844.

The Methodists were ten commandment folk anyway.

So was C.H. Spurgeon and the "Baptist Confession of Faith".
So were Presbyterians and the "Westminster Confession of Faith"
So were Catholics.
So was almost every Christian denomination on the planet at that time.

That would not have been much of a unique identifier back in the early 1800's.

Are you proposing that the SDA was the only sabbath practicing
church?

Not at all - Adventists up until 1845-1846 were Sunday keeping. And it was Seventh-day Baptists that came along and convinced the early Adventist leaders that would later form the Seventh-day Adventist church -- to accept the fact that the TEN Commandments could not be edited not even the Sabbath Commandment. That was "news".

Miller started preaching in the 1830's about the 2300 year timeline and the expected 2nd coming in 1843-1844 - he was always Sunday keeping, never had any calms about eating pork, never vegetarian , never held our view of soul sleep, never knew anything at all about Ellen Harmon or Ellen White until near the very end of his life - and certainly not before the Oct 22, 1844 disappointment where he was fully convinced that his timeline had not worked and just gave up the whole thing.

People that attack William Miller as if they are attacking the SDA denomination are simply - clueless.

People that think that Ellen White was working or helping or in any way influential in the Millerite Oct 22, 1844 movement - are also without a clue when it comes to actual history. She was pre-teen and then teenager for most of that time - having a 3rd grade education and zero influence on the Millerites at all. In her own biographical account she states that it was shortly after the Oct 22, 1844 crisis and failure of Miller's movement to predict the correct event pointed to by the 2300 year timeline - that God first came to her with the anointing to be a prophet. She was very reluctant to have anything to do with it - but would not dishonor God by a determined 'no' as a response. William Foy had also been anointed by God as a prophet before that time and was relating his visions in the 1843-1844 time period but he turned away from it shortly after the spring of 1844.

Also Joseph Smith - a Mormon - was shot and killed in 1844 and his life was a horrific warning about false prophets. The 17 year old Ellen Harmon at the end of 1844 was not at all inclined to get into a prophetic ministry.

Adventists respect Miller like they respect Luther - as a great Christian, saint, a great pioneer that moved the ball down the field toward the goal line -- but we would never want to "Go back to what he believed" in either case.

stuart lawrence · Dec 12, 2016

BobRyan said:
Indeed --

Romans 6
What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin so that grace may increase? 2 May it never be! How shall we who died to sin still live in it? 3 Or do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus have been baptized into His death? 4 Therefore we have been buried with Him through baptism into death, so that as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, so we too might walk in newness of life. 5 For if we have become united with Him in the likeness of His death, certainly we shall also be in the likeness of His resurrection, 6 knowing this, that our old self was crucified with Him, in order that our body of sin might be done away with, so that we would no longer be slaves to sin; 7 for he who has died is freed from sin.
..
12 Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body so that you obey its lusts, 13 and do not go on presenting the members of your body to sin as instruments of unrighteousness; but present yourselves to God as those alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness to God. 14 For sin shall not be master over you, for you are not under law but under grace.

15 What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? May it never be! 16 Do you not know that when you present yourselves to someone as slaves for obedience, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin resulting in death, or of obedience resulting in righteousness?

Long on false and factless accusation - short on Bible.

What part of that text do you imagine is soooo difficult for all of us to read?

instead of "see-the-Bible-text" --> "falsely-accuse-whoever-posted-it" - you need something that is 'compelling' to the unbiased objective Bible student.

But you didn't explain any of the letter did you, just quoted it.
Nor could you explain the second part either which isn't a suprise.
I did tell you, you wouldn't understand the christian has no righteousness of not committing sin/ not breaking the law

A bible student eh who hasn't the ability to explain the text when asked to do so. A student that can only quote the law without adding things such as:

The law is for the ungodly and rebels, not the righteous
Sin used Paul's knowledge of one of the TC to make sin utterly sinful in him
The power of sin is the law
If you stumble at just one point where the law us concerned you are guilty of breaking all of it
Sinful passions are aroused in people by the law if they live under it.

Glad I'm not, to use your term a bible student!!

stuart lawrence · Dec 12, 2016

BobRyan said:
The Holy Spirit is not at WAR with the LAW of God -- or the WORD of God.

Rather - HE authored IT!!

Romans 3
19 Now we know that whatever the Law says, it speaks to those who are under the Law, so that every mouth may be closed and all the world may become accountable to God; 20 because by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified in His sight; for through the Law comes the knowledge of sin.

The STILL-valid LAW of God applies to "EVERY mouth" and "ALL the World" --- STILL even after the cross!

It is the LAW that Paul quotes from in Romans 7 -- the TEN Commandments
It is the LAW that Paul quotes from in Romans 13 - the TEN Commandments
It is the LAW that James quotes from in James 2-- the TEN Commandments
It is the LAW that Paul quotes from in Ephesians 6:2 - the TEN Commandments - where the 5th Commandment "is the FIRST commandment with a promise" - in that STILL valid - unit of TEN.

A Bible detail SO incredibly obvious - even the majority of your own pro-Sunday scholars admit it.

It just does not GET any easier than this!!

To quote someone else on this board --
"You better ignore this post, it is far beyond your understanding is it not?"

Still not explaining scripture are you.
Yes, in rom 7 it is all about the moral law, wish you could do an exegesis of it, but alas.
Paul states sin took advantage of his knowledge of one of THe TC to make sin utterly sinful in him.
Wish you could explain that. But alas, you just stick to quoting the letter

stuart lawrence · Dec 12, 2016

BobRyan said:
Do you make stuff up "on the spot" when you falsely accuse someone - or do you wait and think before you falsely accuse someone??

Rev 12 refers to the devil as the accuser of the brethren. Notice how quick he is in Job 1 and 2 to declare before God that in spite of all that the Gospel claims - Job is still the same ol' evil Job? The devil claims that the supposed good behavior of Job - is merely "false-gospel better-bribed Job" it is not 'The new creation" of the Gospel - it is not the "good tree" of Matt 7 in Satan's POV.

Notice how his "accuser of the brethren" title goes wayyyyy back?

And what does the accuser use to accuse the brethren?

Go on, have a stab at it, take a deep breath then give me the answer

stuart lawrence · Dec 12, 2016

BobRyan said:
The Holy Spirit is not at WAR with the LAW of God -- or the WORD of God.

Rather - HE authored IT!!

Romans 3
19 Now we know that whatever the Law says, it speaks to those who are under the Law, so that every mouth may be closed and all the world may become accountable to God; 20 because by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified in His sight; for through the Law comes the knowledge of sin.

The STILL-valid LAW of God applies to "EVERY mouth" and "ALL the World" --- STILL even after the cross!

It is the LAW that Paul quotes from in Romans 7 -- the TEN Commandments
It is the LAW that Paul quotes from in Romans 13 - the TEN Commandments
It is the LAW that James quotes from in James 2-- the TEN Commandments
It is the LAW that Paul quotes from in Ephesians 6:2 - the TEN Commandments - where the 5th Commandment "is the FIRST commandment with a promise" - in that STILL valid - unit of TEN.

A Bible detail SO incredibly obvious - even the majority of your own pro-Sunday scholars admit it.

It just does not GET any easier than this!!

To quote someone else on this board --
"You better ignore this post, it is far beyond your understanding is it not?"

James ch2 tells us if you stumble at just one point concerning the law you are guilty of breaking all of it
Rom ch13 quotes some of the TC but NOT as the way of obedience.

I'm sorry, but simply quoting some of the letter that suits, without the ability to explain the message is kindergarten stuff.
You need to progress, hopefully one day

stuart lawrence · Dec 12, 2016

BobRyan said:
Do you make stuff up "on the spot" when you falsely accuse someone - or do you wait and think before you falsely accuse someone??

Rev 12 refers to the devil as the accuser of the brethren. Notice how quick he is in Job 1 and 2 to declare before God that in spite of all that the Gospel claims - Job is still the same ol' evil Job? The devil claims that the supposed good behavior of Job - is merely "false-gospel better-bribed Job" it is not 'The new creation" of the Gospel - it is not the "good tree" of Matt 7 in Satan's POV.

Notice how his "accuser of the brethren" title goes wayyyyy back?

BobRyan said:
The Holy Spirit is not at WAR with the LAW of God -- or the WORD of God.

Rather - HE authored IT!!

Romans 3
19 Now we know that whatever the Law says, it speaks to those who are under the Law, so that every mouth may be closed and all the world may become accountable to God; 20 because by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified in His sight; for through the Law comes the knowledge of sin.

The STILL-valid LAW of God applies to "EVERY mouth" and "ALL the World" --- STILL even after the cross!

It is the LAW that Paul quotes from in Romans 7 -- the TEN Commandments
It is the LAW that Paul quotes from in Romans 13 - the TEN Commandments
It is the LAW that James quotes from in James 2-- the TEN Commandments
It is the LAW that Paul quotes from in Ephesians 6:2 - the TEN Commandments - where the 5th Commandment "is the FIRST commandment with a promise" - in that STILL valid - unit of TEN.

A Bible detail SO incredibly obvious - even the majority of your own pro-Sunday scholars admit it.

It just does not GET any easier than this!!

To quote someone else on this board --
"You better ignore this post, it is far beyond your understanding is it not?"

We also know that the law is made NOT for the righteous but for lawbreakers and rebels, the ungodly and sinful, the unholy and irreligious, for those who kill their fathers and mothers, for murderers, for adulterers and perverts, for slave traders and liars and perjurers and for whatever else is contrary to the sound doctrine that conforms to the glorious gospel of the blessed God which he entrusted to me
1 Tim 1:9-11

In the above Paul gives a list of people the law is for. I have to assume you fall into one or more of those categories as you keep stressing the law. I won't ask which ones, not for me to pry

Just note the law is not for the righteous, but lawbreakers and rebels etc

stuart lawrence · Dec 13, 2016

BobRyan said:
The Holy Spirit is not at WAR with the LAW of God -- or the WORD of God.

Rather - HE authored IT!!

Romans 3
19 Now we know that whatever the Law says, it speaks to those who are under the Law, so that every mouth may be closed and all the world may become accountable to God; 20 because by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified in His sight; for through the Law comes the knowledge of sin.

The STILL-valid LAW of God applies to "EVERY mouth" and "ALL the World" --- STILL even after the cross!

It is the LAW that Paul quotes from in Romans 7 -- the TEN Commandments
It is the LAW that Paul quotes from in Romans 13 - the TEN Commandments
It is the LAW that James quotes from in James 2-- the TEN Commandments
It is the LAW that Paul quotes from in Ephesians 6:2 - the TEN Commandments - where the 5th Commandment "is the FIRST commandment with a promise" - in that STILL valid - unit of TEN.

A Bible detail SO incredibly obvious - even the majority of your own pro-Sunday scholars admit it.

It just does not GET any easier than this!!

To quote someone else on this board --
"You better ignore this post, it is far beyond your understanding is it not?"

Indeed the Holy Spirit is not at war with the law of God. The holy spirit leads us to understand the true message as to how to live a Godly life. But you reject that message. So who are you truly rejecting?

Gerhard Ebersoehn · Dec 15, 2016

stuart lawrence said:
Indeed the Holy Spirit is not at war with the law of God. The holy spirit leads us to understand the true message as to how to live a Godly life. But you reject that message. So who are you truly rejecting?

The old judge just won't part with his verdict hammer, not even with his thumb in his mouth, sleeping like a child on the bench.

Gerhard Ebersoehn · Dec 15, 2016

stuart lawrence said:
Absolutely he isn't!!!!!

Therefore no one will be declared righteous in his sight by observing the law, rather through the law se become conscious of sin rom3:20

No justification / righteousness of observing the law, which is the same as saying:
No righteousness / justification of not committing sin.

You better ignore this post, it is far beyond your understanding is it not?

Repulsive! I wouldn't like to have you for my friend.

stuart lawrence · Dec 15, 2016

Gerhard Ebersoehn said:
Repulsive! I wouldn't like to have you for my friend.

Nothing of importance to read here, time to move on

BobRyan · Dec 15, 2016

stuart lawrence said:
Indeed the Holy Spirit is not at war with the law of God.

ok - well then we do agree on something.

The holy spirit leads us to understand the true message as to how to live a Godly life. But you reject that message. So who are you truly rejecting?

now you are back to false accusation as the "substance" in our post again ... why keep doing that?

BobRyan · Dec 15, 2016

stuart lawrence said:
We also know that the law is made NOT for the righteous but for lawbreakers and rebels,

The LAW of God condemns the lost - it is written on the heart and mind of the saints - even in Jer 31:31-33.

Thus Paul can say of the saints "Do we then make void the LAW of God by our faith? God forbid! In fact we ESTABLISH the LAW of God" Rom 3:31

Do you accept - or reject that scripture in your opposition to the LAW of God?

stuart lawrence · Dec 15, 2016

BobRyan said:
The LAW of God condemns the lost - it is written on the heart and mind of the saints - even in Jer 31:31-33.

Thus Paul can say of the saints "Do we then make void the LAW of God by our faith? God forbid! In fact we ESTABLISH the LAW of God" Rom 3:31

Do you accept - or reject that scripture in your opposition to the LAW of God?

A law of righteousness condemns everyone!
Before you quote rom3:31 read the preceding ten verses. Don't just randomly quote one verse.
The christian has a righteousness APaRT From law
They have no justification of obeying the law. They cannot boast because this is so.
What would some of Paul's readers thought after reading the preceding verses?
The same as you do, you preach a licence to sin.
Therefore to correct such misaprehension Paul wrote verse31
As he wrote Rom6:14:

For sin shall no longer be your master, for you are not under law but under grace
Rom6:14

That was Paul's core message. Die to a law of righteousness and sin shall not be your master/ you will far better uphold the law

stuart lawrence · Dec 15, 2016

BobRyan said:
ok - well then we do agree on something.

now you are back to false accusation as the "substance" in our post again ... why keep doing that?

Why did Paul say the offence of the cross was not preaching law? Gal5:11

Why do people like Seventh-day Adventist and Adventist doctrine?

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