Why do people judge mormons, isnt that Gods decision?

[pyro457]

Many people and Churches redilly atach my Church (The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints) with many different agurments. Why do so many people judge our Church and make remarks like we "are not Christian". Isnt it Gods place to judge us? I belive that God is the only one who is allowed to judge whether or not we are Christian. And I will not say someone is not Christian unless they say they are not. For it is not my place to put such a judgement on a person. It is Gods place only! Also our Church is one of few churches that does not attack other faiths. Infact our Church teaches to respect people of other faiths, not to attack them. Some of our Church athourities have even gieven talks on not to discriminate other faiths. "Doctrine of Inclusion" by Elder M. Russell Ballard
is one of those talks. (you can find it at the lds.org website.) So why do so many people and churches still attack our church and others?

 

[gort]

Hello, and welcome to CF.

I have 2 questions if I may ask you.....

Joh 14:6 Jesus said to him, I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life; no one comes to the Father but by Me.

OK, only 1 question.

What does this verse mean?

thanx


<><

 

[christopher123]

Also our Church is one of few churches that does not attack other faiths. Infact our Church teaches to respect people of other faiths, not to attack them.

Here are couple of good reads to get you started brother:

Joseph Smith - Joseph claims God told him all churches of his day were wrong, all creeds an abomination in his sight and all professors were corrupt. Pearl of Great Price, Joseph Smith - History 1:18-19 (1842)

Orson Pratt - Roman Catholic church never had authority, it was founded by the Devil. Protestant reformers did not restore the church, their authority came from the Catholics who only had authority from the Devil. The Seer, p. 205 (1854)

Orson Pratt - "Baptism is just as essential to salvation, as Faith and Repentance. — Without being immersed in water no man can enter into the fulness of Celestial glory. ... But who in this generation have authority to baptize?" Only the Latter-day Saints. "Both Catholics and Protestants are nothing less than the 'harlot of Babylon'" The Seer, p. 255 (1854)

John Taylor - "We talk about Christianity, but it is a perfect pack of nonsense. ... It is a sounding brass and a tinkling cymbal; it is as corrupt as hell; and the Devil could not invent a better engine to spread his work than the Christianity of the nineteenth century." Journal of Discourses, vol. 6, p. 167 (1858)

Bruce R. McConkie - "It is also to the Book of Mormon to which we turn for the plainest description of the Catholic Church as the great and abominable church. Nephi saw this 'church which is the most abominable above all other churches' in vision. He 'saw the devil that he was the foundation of it' and also the murders, wealth, harlotry, persecutions, and evil desires that historically have been a part of this satanic organization. (1 Nephi 13:1-10)" Mormon Doctrine, p. 130 (1958)

Bruce R. McConkie - "Harlots. See Church of the Devil, Sex Immorality. Literally an harlot is a prostitute; figuratively it is any apostate church. Nephi, speaking of harlots in the literal sense and while giving a prophetic description of the Catholic Church, recorded that he 'saw the devil that he was the foundation of it.' ... Then speaking of harlots in the figurative sense, he designated the Catholic Church as 'the mother of harlots' (1 Nephi 13:34; 14:15-17), a title which means that the protestant churches, the harlot daughters which broke off from the great and abominable church, would themselves be apostate churches." Mormon Doctrine, pp. 314-315 (1958)



McConkie edited his remarks later to tone them down. I'm sure I can find more if you are interested.



Chris <>< "A proud new member of the "harlot of Babylon"

 

[Doc T]

I'm sure I can find more if you are interested.

Sure and why you are at it, would you please find some from the, oh say, last 10 years?

Thanks

Doc

~

 

[christopher123]

Sure and why you are at it, would you please find some from the, oh say, last 10 years?

Thanks

Doc

~

Can't, Edelman won't let them be released.

Yea, your right..sorry ..lets just forget about the first 170 years.

Maybe we could try out the phrase "Oh, I don't know much about that, I don't know that we teach that"




Chris <><


Doc, serious question here. I read a paper that Daniel Peterson gave recently (I don't remember if it was the recent FAIR conference or not) but the wording and syntax sounded just like you. Are you him? I'm not coming at you here to say "you just paste or plagerize" etc, etc. I'm just curious? Or do great minds think (write)(expound)(apologetic) alike?

Thanks,
Chris <><

 

[Romans5:1]

Many people and Churches redilly atach my Church (The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints) with many different agurments. Why do so many people judge our Church and make remarks like we "are not Christian". Isnt it Gods place to judge us?

pyro, instead of asking such a broad and meaningless question, why not simply get involved in some of the more specific discussions taking place, and then perhaps you'll better understand why knowledgeable Christians have such difficulty with Mormonism being touted as representative of Christianity. Currently there is a very good discussion on the Mormon Doctrine of Sin going on right now. You're invited to try and explain your Mormon views there.

 

[Romans5:1]

Can't, Edelman won't let them be released.

Yea, your right..sorry ..lets just forget about the first 170 years.

Maybe we could try out the phrase "Oh, I don't know much about that, I don't know that we teach that"




Chris <><


Doc, serious question here. I read a paper that Daniel Peterson gave recently (I don't remember if it was the recent FAIR conference or not) but the wording and syntax sounded just like you. Are you him? I'm not coming at you here to say "you just paste or plagerize" etc, etc. I'm just curious? Or do great minds think (write)(expound)(apologetic) alike?

Thanks,
Chris <><

LOL...Very good Chris! And no, I don't think that Doc is Peterson. Doc is much more bashful than Peterson, and Peterson (perhaps since he's now hanging around the FAIR crowd) drips with much more caustic sarcasm than Doc ever will.

 

[happyinhisgrace]

Many people and Churches redilly atach my Church (The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints) with many different agurments. Why do so many people judge our Church and make remarks like we "are not Christian". Isnt it Gods place to judge us? I belive that God is the only one who is allowed to judge whether or not we are Christian. And I will not say someone is not Christian unless they say they are not. For it is not my place to put such a judgement on a person. It is Gods place only! Also our Church is one of few churches that does not attack other faiths. Infact our Church teaches to respect people of other faiths, not to attack them. Some of our Church athourities have even gieven talks on not to discriminate other faiths. "Doctrine of Inclusion" by Elder M. Russell Ballard
is one of those talks. (you can find it at the lds.org website.) So why do so many people and churches still attack our church and others?

I don't see people judging Mormons here on CF, what I see is people judging the lds teachings. I made the comment in another thread that lds are their church, the culture and the church are so intertwined that they can't seem to seperate the two. I don't see people judging the lds members, I do see them judging the teachings of the lds church, which is a good thing.

 

[happyinhisgrace]

Sure and why you are at it, would you please find some from the, oh say, last 10 years?

Thanks

Doc

~

So, as long as the lds church hasn't publicly spoken out against other beliefs since the reign of the PR pres. Hinkley, the stuff they said before that time doesn't count?

 

[Der Alte]

Here are couple of good reads to get you started brother:

Joseph Smith - Joseph claims God told him all churches of his day were wrong, all creeds an abomination in his sight and all professors were corrupt. Pearl of Great Price, Joseph Smith - History 1:18-19 (1842)

Orson Pratt - Roman Catholic church never had authority, it was founded by the Devil. Protestant reformers did not restore the church, their authority came from the Catholics who only had authority from the Devil. The Seer, p. 205 (1854)

Orson Pratt - "Baptism is just as essential to salvation, as Faith and Repentance. — Without being immersed in water no man can enter into the fulness of Celestial glory. ... But who in this generation have authority to baptize?" Only the Latter-day Saints. "Both Catholics and Protestants are nothing less than the 'harlot of Babylon'" The Seer, p. 255 (1854)

John Taylor - "We talk about Christianity, but it is a perfect pack of nonsense. ... It is a sounding brass and a tinkling cymbal; it is as corrupt as hell; and the Devil could not invent a better engine to spread his work than the Christianity of the nineteenth century." Journal of Discourses, vol. 6, p. 167 (1858)

Bruce R. McConkie - "It is also to the Book of Mormon to which we turn for the plainest description of the Catholic Church as the great and abominable church. Nephi saw this 'church which is the most abominable above all other churches' in vision. He 'saw the devil that he was the foundation of it' and also the murders, wealth, harlotry, persecutions, and evil desires that historically have been a part of this satanic organization. (1 Nephi 13:1-10)" Mormon Doctrine, p. 130 (1958)

Bruce R. McConkie - "Harlots. See Church of the Devil, Sex Immorality. Literally an harlot is a prostitute; figuratively it is any apostate church. Nephi, speaking of harlots in the literal sense and while giving a prophetic description of the Catholic Church, recorded that he 'saw the devil that he was the foundation of it.' ... Then speaking of harlots in the figurative sense, he designated the Catholic Church as 'the mother of harlots' (1 Nephi 13:34; 14:15-17), a title which means that the protestant churches, the harlot daughters which broke off from the great and abominable church, would themselves be apostate churches." Mormon Doctrine, pp. 314-315 (1958)

McConkie edited his remarks later to tone them down. I'm sure I can find more if you are interested.

Chris <>< "A proud new member of the "harlot of Babylon"

In response to a post asking if there is anything within the last 10 years. Isn't that pretty much irrelevant? Have any of the above, and many similar, statements and pronouncements ever been repudiated, denounced, revoked, abrogated, etc. by the first presidency, prophet, seer, and revelator, the quorom of 70, general authorities, and anyone else I may have overlooked?

Is there an official LDS statement, anywhere, from any era, which is authoritative and not just some "doods" opinion which states something along the lines, "The CoJCoLDS no longer believes that, all the creeds of the Christian churches are an abomination and all their professors are corrupt?" I mean since the LDS does not attack or condemn Christian churches, something like that should be easy to come up with.

 

[A New Dawn]

In response to a post asking if there is anything within the last 10 years. Isn't that pretty much irrelevant? Have any of the above, and many similar, statements and pronouncements ever been repudiated, denounced, revoked, abrogated, etc. by the first presidency, prophet, seer, and revelator, the quorom of 70, general authorities, and anyone else I may have overlooked?

Is there an official LDS statement, anywhere, from any era, which is authoritative and not just some "doods" opinion which states something along the lines, "The CoJCoLDS no longer believes that, all the creeds of the Christian churches are an abomination and all their professors are corrupt?" I mean since the LDS does not attack or condemn Christian churches, something like that should be easy to come up with.

Since everyone is so keen on going back 170+ years, how about this one?

Joseph Smith, 11th article of faith.
We claim the privilege of worshiping Almighty God according to the dictates of our own conscience, and allow all men the same privilege, let them worship how, where, or what they may.

 

[Der Alte]

Since everyone is so keen on going back 170+ years, how about this one?

Joseph Smith, 11th article of faith.
We claim the privilege of worshiping Almighty God according to the dictates of our own conscience, and allow all men the same privilege, let them worship how, where, or what they may.

Nice post. It doesn't answer my questions but a nice post.

And for the most part Christianity allows others, including LDS to "worship according to the dictates of [their] own conscience." I don't know of anybody, within the last 170 years or so, kicking down doors forcing LDS to do or not do anything.

Until it was changed a few years ago, if I had been a Christian mouse in an LDS temple during an endowment ceremony, what would I have heard about Christian pastors?

 

[Rescued One]

Many people and Churches redilly atach my Church (The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints) with many different agurments. Why do so many people judge our Church and make remarks like we "are not Christian". Isnt it Gods place to judge us? I belive that God is the only one who is allowed to judge whether or not we are Christian. And I will not say someone is not Christian unless they say they are not. For it is not my place to put such a judgement on a person. It is Gods place only! Also our Church is one of few churches that does not attack other faiths. Infact our Church teaches to respect people of other faiths, not to attack them. Some of our Church athourities have even gieven talks on not to discriminate other faiths. "Doctrine of Inclusion" by Elder M. Russell Ballard
is one of those talks. (you can find it at the lds.org website.) So why do so many people and churches still attack our church and others?

That's how the LDS church is responding to Christians in this century. Yet your missionaries still try to convert Baptists, Catholics, Methodists, Presbyterians. i guess you think having your so-called "more truth" justifies trying to convert us and our friends. It kind of reminds me a wolf dressing up in sheep's clothing to see what he can find for dinner. "Hey, we're not attacking you (hehe)." Here comes the Trojan horse!

 

[Rescued One]

....
We claim the privilege of worshiping Almighty God according to the dictates of our own conscience, and allow all men the same privilege, let them worship how, where, or what they may.

So do we.

 

[CrownCaster]

Also our Church is one of few churches that does not attack other faiths.

I take it you are unaware of the pre-1990 temple ceremony where a Protestant minister is paraded as a hireling of satan? What about joe smiths testimony that all our creeds are an abomination? What about the mormons saying that only they have the right to baptize, pass communion, have the only valid priesthood, are the ONLY TRUE AND LIVING CHURCH? These are all typical of cultic churches and need to be exposed.

 

[ST:DS9]

Because we would be fish out of water if we weren't presecuted?

It is alright to judge practices and beliefs. But we shouldn't judge people. I have friends that don't agree with my beliefs, but they do have the same values as I do and that is one of the things that keeps us as friends.

 

[skylark1]

It is alright to judge practices and beliefs. But we shouldn't judge people. I have friends that don't agree with my beliefs, but they do have the same values as I do and that is one of the things that keeps us as friends.

I agree, and hope that all here will focus on discussing practices and beliefs (the issues), rather than the person.

 

[Cröe]

Here are couple of good reads to get you started brother:

So we have a handful of quotes from the past 170 years (but none from the past few decades), which critics use to paint the LDS church as the bad guy. But I bet I could, if I really wanted to, do some searching on the Internet and find hundreds of similar (and worse) statements about the LDS church just from the past year. So I'm just not buying into this Protestant persecution complex.

 

[Breetai]

Sure and why you are at it, would you please find some from the, oh say, last 10 years?

Hinckley said that the LDS worship "a different Jesus".

That's exactly why we question you guys on your beliefs. We want to you see how conflicting they are with the Bible and with each other. We don't want you to worship "a different Jesus" because then God will judge you...and not favorably. We are deathly afraid that you really are worshipping "a different Jesus" and we don't want you to be punished for it. We want to you experience the joy and freedom of knowing 100% that you are saved; going to the top level of heaven to be with God.

 

[Cröe]

Have any of the above, and many similar, statements and pronouncements ever been repudiated, denounced, revoked, abrogated, etc. by the first presidency, prophet, seer, and revelator, the quorom of 70, general authorities, and anyone else I may have overlooked?

As Chris pointed out, McConkie toned down his own statements. Also, The Seer was repudiated by the Church in an official statement.