Why do people care?

[justaguy78]

Have others wondered like I have why people care so much about the origins of life and why they get so heated about it?

The fact is NOBODY can prove how the universe and life started yet this is a topic that people put so much focus and emotion into. Why? Is it just human ego of wanting to be proven correct what one believes is the answer? I don't think one can say it is just humans being inquisitive because it is something that can't be proven so it is a hopeless cause. Nobody can really prove God exists and nobody can prove God doesn't exist no matter what atheists try and say when they bring up supposed scientific discoveries (usually just theories) because that still doesn't mean God doesn't exist. Why argue about it?

Me personally, I don't really care how things got to be what they are as focusing on stuff millions/billions of years ago is useless to me. Will finding fossils of extinct species help cure things like cancer or solve world hunger? I am willing to say no. Being told dinosaurs evolved into birds does not better anyone's life other than the people being paid to find the fossils and come up with that THEORY. Does trying to explain how the universe works without a creator being needed do anything for people? No, it doesn't. On the flip side, quoting biblical passages to try and prove there is a God does nothing either since for all ANYONE knows the bible was just some joke some started back in time.

I just wonder what could be done in the world if all the people who focus their time on things that can't be proven would instead focus that time on solving legit issues that have an effect on living people and creatures or spent in on bettering the lives of people who could really use the help. Trying to piece together things from millions of years ago does not do that.

I think if God does indeed exist that God just laughs at all this stuff and how much ego the human species has to think people int he year 2011 can actually say what was going on millions of years ago. Heck, even thousands of years ago.

Note that I am perfectly fine and am happy humans are inquisitive as it has created many advancements...I just don't see the point in trying to figure out the origins of life and try and figure out stuff from millions+ years ago when there is no real evidence behind it or real use. You couldn't convict a person of even stealing a chocolate bar with the type of evidence support that is used to explain early history yet it gets taken as fact. Weird.

 

[Hespera]

Have others wondered like I have why people care so much about the origins of life and why they get so heated about it?

The fact is NOBODY can prove how the universe and life started yet this is a topic that people put so much focus and emotion into. Why? Is it just human ego of wanting to be proven correct what one believes is the answer? I don't think one can say it is just humans being inquisitive because it is something that can't be proven so it is a hopeless cause. Nobody can really prove God exists and nobody can prove God doesn't exist no matter what atheists try and say when they bring up supposed scientific discoveries (usually just theories) because that still doesn't mean God doesn't exist. Why argue about it?

Me personally, I don't really care how things got to be what they are as focusing on stuff millions/billions of years ago is useless to me. Will finding fossils of extinct species help cure things like cancer or solve world hunger? I am willing to say no. Being told dinosaurs evolved into birds does not better anyone's life other than the people being paid to find the fossils and come up with that THEORY. Does trying to explain how the universe works without a creator being needed do anything for people? No, it doesn't. On the flip side, quoting biblical passages to try and prove there is a God does nothing either since for all ANYONE knows the bible was just some joke some started back in time.

I just wonder what could be done in the world if all the people who focus their time on things that can't be proven would instead focus that time on solving legit issues that have an effect on living people and creatures or spent in on bettering the lives of people who could really use the help. Trying to piece together things from millions of years ago does not do that.

I think if God does indeed exist that God just laughs at all this stuff and how much ego the human species has to think people int he year 2011 can actually say what was going on millions of years ago. Heck, even thousands of years ago.

Note that I am perfectly fine and am happy humans are inquisitive as it has created many advancements...I just don't see the point in trying to figure out the origins of life and try and figure out stuff from millions+ years ago when there is no real evidence behind it or real use. You couldn't convict a person of even stealing a chocolate bar with the type of evidence support that is used to explain early history yet it gets taken as fact. Weird.

We will accept it as fact that you are not very interested in things that have no immediate practical use, nor the insight to see how knowledge gained with no purpose in sight often has tremendous application.

(the laser was an odd toy with no purpose when invented)


lets go thru a few of the things you brought up.

Why heated? people like to argue. And then some get heated up. They argue sports, politics etc.

Also, some people's entire concpet of reality is tied up with never being wrong, and about the perfection of their religion. A threat to that is one to their very being.

Prove? Science doesnt deal with proof. Science theory did very well lproviding you with your computer. Electricity was a useless oddity at one time. Useless research on theories that cant be proven led to some remarkable results.

Ego or inquisitive? Some of each. people go into research tho because they actually are curious people who like to understand and discover things. Anyone who has been around research / researchers knows this.


Discoveries and theories I dont know of an antheist or anyone with half a lick of sense who says that any discovery would disprove god. That is flat out stupid. "Just" theories is something that only a person who really really does not get it about science would say. NO theory can be proven, but its "just' theory that lets your computer work.

Help cure Did you know that man liveth not by bread alone? Music doesnt help cure either. So out with music. Ballet? ha. Causes injuries, total waste of time, what does it produce?

Also...basic research is completely unpredictable as to what will be useful and what wont. As noted regarding the laser.

other than the people being paid to find the fossils and come up with that THEORY.

That is very shortsighted! For one thing, the discoveries about dinosaurs have immensely enriched the lives of most everyone in the world. Waht little kid doesnt love dinosaurs! What a sadly impoverished world it is if we didnt know of them.

Evolution is at the very heart of the biological sciences. not all discoveries in evolution are of value in cooking steaks or curing measles. What is your beef here? A lot of us finding it tremendously interesting, the things that are being learned. Its not like its hurting you any! Try to learn to appreciate it yourself!

focus on things that cant be proven

you want us to stop doing that, all research will come to a stop. They wont even be able to hold criminal trials, nothing can be proven in court, either.

legit issues

have i said enough yet on the importance of basic research, on how you nor anyone can determine what the results will be, the impossibility of tweasing out your 'legit issues"?


Actually say what was going on thousands of years ago

nope not all of it but some pretty remarkable things can be learned.
do you need lists? We know that the entire central USA and Canada was once a tropical ocean with giant crocodiles and so forth. We know the dates of when Vesuvias erupted going back over a hundred thousand years. yes we can actually say.

no real evidence / evidence support

well no, you are wrong about that! researchers dont just make things up or do fairy tales. From earlier comments we see that you have your opinion but really dont know at all, or have a basis for your statement other than that you dont know.

FACT

No, again this is a misunderstanding on your part. Science just doesnt do "proof" and "facts". You will get a researcher to say 'it is a fact that this is the data i got. he wont say his data is fact, he wont say he proved anything.

The closest you will hear to proof will be the opposite... One can disprove, or falsify a theory. Falsify it. You can prove that a theory is wrong.

does that clear up anything for you?

 

[Ayersy]

Understanding the past helps to understand the future.

It never hurts to try and find out more. The pursuit of knowledge is the most important thing anybody can do, as far as I'm concerned.

 

[mandyangel]

I think people get pretty heated about it because evolution is taught as fact and there are really some big holes in the theory and it cannot be proven by the scientific method, therefore it is NOT science. Its really argued as a ploy to get people to atheism and take believers away from Christianity.

 

[Drathnor]

Gravity cant be proven either, we dont know quite what interaction makes it happen

Anyway, for the op, people care just out of general intrest. But most of the arguments are normaly either when science tries to take somthing religion had a hold on, or scientists bickiering with eachother over who has a better theory/invention. Ac vs Dc for the best power supply is a good example of the latter, and evoution vs creation for the former.

 

[selfinflikted]

I think people get pretty heated about it because evolution is taught as fact and there are really some big holes in the theory and it cannot be proven by the scientific method, therefore it is NOT science. Its really argued as a ploy to get people to atheism and take believers away from Christianity.

1. Evolution is a fact.

2. What "holes"?

3. Explain how it is NOT science.

4. Explain how atheism and evolution are connected.

 

[Hespera]

I think people get pretty heated about it because evolution is taught as fact and there are really some big holes in the theory and it cannot be proven by the scientific method, therefore it is NOT science. Its really argued as a ploy to get people to atheism and take believers away from Christianity.

FACT
i believe it is a fact, but nobody with any sense teaches it as fact. Sorry if you had bad tachers; its common in America. Get heated about that, not about the theory.

big holes
Im sure you have been taught this lie. dont believe all you hear.


Theory..not proven... not science.

yep that is how science works, theory. But if unproven theory means not science, then there is no science in the world.

a ploy

Sorry to hear you see it that way. Most christians, especially educated ones seem to realize they cannot infallibly interpret the bible, and that evolution is real.

my reasons for talking about it are not at all as you say.

 

[TheReasoner]

Have others wondered like I have why people care so much about the origins of life and why they get so heated about it?

The fact is NOBODY can prove how the universe and life started yet this is a topic that people put so much focus and emotion into. Why? Is it just human ego of wanting to be proven correct what one believes is the answer? I don't think one can say it is just humans being inquisitive because it is something that can't be proven so it is a hopeless cause. Nobody can really prove God exists and nobody can prove God doesn't exist no matter what atheists try and say when they bring up supposed scientific discoveries (usually just theories) because that still doesn't mean God doesn't exist. Why argue about it?

Me personally, I don't really care how things got to be what they are as focusing on stuff millions/billions of years ago is useless to me. Will finding fossils of extinct species help cure things like cancer or solve world hunger? I am willing to say no. Being told dinosaurs evolved into birds does not better anyone's life other than the people being paid to find the fossils and come up with that THEORY. Does trying to explain how the universe works without a creator being needed do anything for people? No, it doesn't. On the flip side, quoting biblical passages to try and prove there is a God does nothing either since for all ANYONE knows the bible was just some joke some started back in time.

I just wonder what could be done in the world if all the people who focus their time on things that can't be proven would instead focus that time on solving legit issues that have an effect on living people and creatures or spent in on bettering the lives of people who could really use the help. Trying to piece together things from millions of years ago does not do that.

I think if God does indeed exist that God just laughs at all this stuff and how much ego the human species has to think people int he year 2011 can actually say what was going on millions of years ago. Heck, even thousands of years ago.

Note that I am perfectly fine and am happy humans are inquisitive as it has created many advancements...I just don't see the point in trying to figure out the origins of life and try and figure out stuff from millions+ years ago when there is no real evidence behind it or real use. You couldn't convict a person of even stealing a chocolate bar with the type of evidence support that is used to explain early history yet it gets taken as fact. Weird.

We can't prove how life or the universe started. True.
BUT; We DO know a LOT of how it has progressed since then.

And, well.. We CAN say a LOT about what happened billions of years ago. All we have to do is look through a sufficiently powerful telescope and we'll see it with our own eyes. True, that's not exactly the earth we'll be looking at, but we've learned a lot about the universe at large that way. It's composition, it's evolution through time, it's rate of expansion, the nature of it's expansion, and so much more. Astronomy is more than a window into the sky, it's a window into the past simply because of the fact that photons - as everything else we know about - requires time to traverse space. With a constant speed - c - it becomes a rather predictable and nice part of our universe.

As for caring
Personally I care for the following reasons:

• Christians who proclaim evolution is antichristian and big bang is fictional are presenting a more thorough attack on the faith than most anti-christian groups could ever dream of doing. Both through how many creationists behave and primarily because the claims they make are usually quite easy to pick apart, which results in an association between christianity, Christ, and a lot of claims without any hold to them.
• Some creationists I know have made it a career to travel between churches and teach the congregations to make fun of, ridicule and mock people who are not creationists. No, I'm not kidding. And yes, this is in Norway. Though the people I know who are doing it are a: Americans living here or Norwegians who have studied in American 'universities'

Those are the two main reasons I care. There's more though:

• Creationism has NO supporting evidence (relates to point one from before)
• Creationism is presented as something it is not: Science. It does not fit any of the criteria required to meet such.
• Creationism has and is hampered/hampering scientific acceptance and support in the general population thereby hampering development which could be critical to solving certain huge problems that are practically on top of us right now.

 

[laconicstudent]

I think people get pretty heated about it because evolution is taught as fact and there are really some big holes in the theory and it cannot be proven by the scientific method, therefore it is NOT science. Its really argued as a ploy to get people to atheism and take believers away from Christianity.

You do know that the Theory of Gravitation also has "holes" in it, right?

Would it be ok if, along with mainstream physics, we also teach high school students that they are attracted downwards because the earthly elements in our bodies are drawn to their natural place at the center of earth?

 

[Agonaces of Susa]

1. Why do people care? Nature.

"All men by nature desire to know." -- Aristotle, philosopher, Metaphysics, Book I, 350 B.C.

"... we shall be better and braver and less helpless if we think that we ought to enquire, than we should have been if we indulged in the idle fancy that there was no knowing and no use in seeking to know what we do not know." -- Plato, philosopher, Meno, 380 B.C.

"We are all keenly interested in where we came from and where we are going, and cosmology, the study of the whole universe, is supposed to give us answers to these basic questions. In this sense it has much the same attraction for many as does religion." -- Fred Hoyle, cosmologist, 2000

2. Why do people care so much? Ego.

"Well, the most obvious fact, of course, is people commit their career to certain assumptions and then they find they're very reluctant to give up those assumptions. It's disadvantageous and so forth; there's a great natural inertia. That's an obvious answer to the question." -- Halton C. Arp, astronomer, 1998

"...their theory is incorrect but they don't have an accepted theory to replace it and that I think is very psychologically bothersome to particularly scientists who have gone into science in order to be certain about the world, to be sure that they're right and so forth, and it's a very insecure position. Some scientists have joked that, well, a scientist would rather be wrong than uncertain. We sort of have to live with uncertainty which is, well, it's an interesting and challenging situation." -- Halton C. Arp, astronomer, 1998

"...the Oscar for egocentricity goes to the currently dominant theory of the universe." -- Halton C. Arp, astronomer, 2004

 

[Greg1234]

You do know that the Theory of Gravitation also has "holes" in it, right?

Would it be ok if, along with mainstream physics, we also teach high school students that they are attracted downwards because the earthly elements in our bodies are drawn to their natural place at the center of earth?

The observable phenomenon of falling is being explained. Compare with the observable phenomenon of adaptation with limits.

 

[Hespera]

The observable phenomenon of falling is being explained. Compare with the observable phenomenon of adaptation with limits.

"within limits"?

 

[If Not For Grace]

Will finding fossils of extinct species help cure things like cancer or solve world hunger?

Maybe--if we know how something died or why, maybe we can preclude that from happening again. Or Maybe we can learn from the lesson of how a species became extinct. I say let those who want to know explore-what harm does that do?

 

[Jaxy H]

Maybe--if we know how something died or why, maybe we can preclude that from happening again. Or Maybe we can learn from the lesson of how a species became extinct. I say let those who want to know explore-what harm does that do?

I agree.

It makes sense that people want to study the origins of the universe, the earth, life on earth, mankind ... That's a funny question: "Why do people care?" Because we have minds and we like to use them.

 

[Hespera]

Maybe--if we know how something died or why, maybe we can preclude that from happening again. Or Maybe we can learn from the lesson of how a species became extinct. I say let those who want to know explore-what harm does that do?

World hunger and cancer probably will never be "cured'. But until they are, along with homelessness, drug addiction and poverty, we should stop thinking about any frivolities!
no tv
no art
no music
no sports
no church
no literature
no space exploration
no basic research of any sort

and no internet forums

 

[sandwiches]

I agree.

It makes sense that people want to study the origins of the universe, the earth, life on earth, mankind ... That's a funny question: "Why do people care?" Because we have minds and we like to use them.

This a million times, this. The pursuit of knowledge is its own reward.

 

[Doveaman]

Have others wondered like I have why people care so much about the origins of life

Could it be because knowing where we came from helps us to know who we are and where we are going?

and why they get so heated about it?

Could it be because there are too many conflicting origins?

 

[Hespera]

and for justa... why do you bother asking questions, drive-by poster style?

 

[Agonaces of Susa]

The observable phenomenon of falling is being explained.

Gravity is the observable phenomenon of falling near the surface of the earth. It doesn't explain anything.

Gravitation attempts to explain gravity by positing that masses are attracted to one another.

This is, of course, absolute nonsense: the moon and Earth are observed to fall away from eachother at the rate of 3.8 cm per year.

"Darwin is the Newton of Biology." -- Philip Kitcher, professor, Abusing Science, June 1983

 

[matthewgar]

The problem here is one that I see alot, while yes we should focus on sciences that can cure diseases, and help people, not everyone in the world is specialzied, or really interested or even has the skills to work on such things. there also becomes a limit where only so many people can work on a single project. you could get every single scientist in the world working on cures for cancer/aids and such and they won't find one much sooner, as there is limitations and such, alot of research takes time, also it's not like you can have them all working on the same project so you might just end up with 30 different cures in 10 years rather then getting a cure in 2 years.