Why do denominations exist?

[blankCrossfire]

1st time poster. Found this forum today, lurked for a bit, a lot of useful information here. I leveled up substantially within minutes.

Okay so why do denominations exist?
If the bible is meant to interpret itself then why are there hundreds if not thousands of denominations? Also how do you know which ones are right and wrong?
If Catholicism prays to Mary and Saints is that enough to cross it off the list and call it an abomination or ungodly?

And what about the others? I went to Catholic school and gradually everyone who went became atheist. So I'm inclined to believe the holy spirit isn't in Catholicism at all.

Any opinions on this?
Thanks

 

[arj1981]

The Bible's not meant to interpret itself. That's why there are pastors and teachers. People are on so many different levels in their Christian walk. That's why I believe different denominations exist.

 

[Pal Handy]

1st time poster. Found this forum today, lurked for a bit, a lot of useful information here. I leveled up substantially within minutes.

Okay so why do denominations exist?
If the bible is meant to interpret itself then why are there hundreds if not thousands of denominations? Also how do you know which ones are right and wrong?
If Catholicism prays to Mary and Saints is that enough to cross it off the list and call it an abomination or ungodly?

And what about the others? I went to Catholic school and gradually everyone who went became atheist. So I'm inclined to believe the holy spirit isn't in Catholicism at all.

Any opinions on this?
Thanks

The Holy spirit is in people, not in doctrinal statements or denominations.
I use to go to a Catholic charismatic prayer group where the Holy spirit
had the people on fire....

Many miracle occurred in that place...

I loved those people who had the love of God in them.
Some where foolish enough to think that God was condoning
the Catholic church as the only way but those who followed that
route dried up and lost the love they had found.

The Holy spirit did not show up to reinforce Catholic doctrine but inspite
of it He showed up because people were hungry for more and they were
praying that God give them more.

The Priest of the parish had nothing to do with the ourpouring of God's spirit
that swept through that prayer group like a wild fire.

God is not interested in us having all our doctrines right but He desires
us to love Him and to find the expression of God's love in us and through us,
extended to others....

When God's spirit shows up there is love....

If you are looking for a perfect church you will never find it.

If you are looking for more of God, go to a place where the people
have boiled their doctrines down to the basics and who are hungering
for more of God.

Back to why the many denominations...

People protested what they saw as misuse of Church authority.
People began reading the Bible for themselves and saw discrepencies
in what they read and what was said and enforced in the Church.

It seemed that with each new revelation a new denomination
would arise to define the new truth that was found.

Do doctrines other than Gospel message,
save us? No...

Doctrines do not save, only Jesus saves.

Are doctrines good? Yes as long as the doctrines lead us to a deeper walk
with Christ and cause us to love one another as God has loved us
and if they clarify the saving grace of God that is obtained through
faith in Christ alone...

(I just slipped you a doctrine)....

The truth can set us free to enjoy each other and our God but when truth
is used as a weapon to bring people under bondage and separate
us from God's love and from each other, then we should always come down
on the side of love.

The problems with doctrines on lets say the rapture or eternal security
or tongues is when we let those doctrines overshadow
Christs call for us to LOVE one another and so now our love is not based
on Christ's love but whether or not we can agree about all our
secondary doctrines.

Some here will disagree with me and want to thrust their doctrines to the
forefront and say that without truth there can be no love and to
those I would say that I will not argue over it....

Christ loved us even when we were in error and did not
have the truth in us...

Christ loved us when we were His enemies.

How much greater should our love be for those that confess Jesus Christ?

So if we are to love others as Christ loved us, can we love others
while we disagree on doctrines that in themselves can save no one?

The problem is not denominations but the people who defend them to the
point of excluding love one for another and instead make their truth
more important than Christ's command to love one another.

Apostle Paul said it very well...
He said that all these things we fight over will pass away when
we come into the kingdom of God.

There will be no more doctrines on the rapture.
There will be no more debates on tongues.

All that will remain is God's love and the Word of God,
Jesus Christ and those that have trusted in Him...

There will be no arguing over doctrines in heaven or
in the new kingdom God sets up on the earth.

1 Corinthians 13

The Greatest Gift

1 Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I have become sounding brass or a clanging cymbal. 2 And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. 3 And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, but have not love, it profits me nothing.
4 Love suffers long and is kind; love does not envy; love does not parade itself, is not puffed up; 5 does not behave rudely, does not seek its own, is not provoked, thinks no evil; 6 does not rejoice in iniquity, but rejoices in the truth; 7 bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things.
8 Love never fails. But whether there are prophecies, they will fail; whether there are tongues, they will cease; whether there is knowledge, it will vanish away. 9 For we know in part and we prophesy in part. 10 But when that which is perfect has come, then that which is in part will be done away.
11 When I was a child, I spoke as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child; but when I became a man, I put away childish things. 12 For now we see in a mirror, dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part, but then I shall know just as I also am known.
13 And now abide faith, hope, love, these three; but the greatest of these is love.

 

[NvxiaLee]

Okay so why do denominations exist?
If the bible is meant to interpret itself then why are there hundreds if not thousands of denominations? Also how do you know which ones are right and wrong? If Catholicism prays to Mary and Saints is that enough to cross it off the list and call it an abomination or ungodly?

So many denominations exist because so many people don't believe the Bible. When you set aside the Bible as the supreme doctrinal authority, it leaves the people to make up whatever garbage they want to. So, everyone becomes his own god.

As for the Catholic Church, "Call no man father", "One mediator between God and man, the man Christ Jesus", etc. The Catholic Church, at least superficially, violates so much of the Bible. Not one saint in the Bible prayed to Mary or any dead saint. Abraham is the most uplifted mere man in all the Bible, but no one prayed to him. But, Mary is almost just a footnote, with absolutely no relevance beyond mothering Jesus.

Acts 1:14 "All these were continually united in prayer, along with the women, including Mary the mother of Jesus, and His brothers." This is the only mention of Mary, by name, in all the Bible outside of the Gospels. And, notice how completely mundane it is.

There is very little belief in the Bible even among so-called Fundamentalists.

 

[spiritman1]

1st time poster. Found this forum today, lurked for a bit, a lot of useful information here. I leveled up substantially within minutes.

Okay so why do denominations exist?
If the bible is meant to interpret itself then why are there hundreds if not thousands of denominations? Also how do you know which ones are right and wrong?
If Catholicism prays to Mary and Saints is that enough to cross it off the list and call it an abomination or ungodly?

And what about the others? I went to Catholic school and gradually everyone who went became atheist. So I'm inclined to believe the holy spirit isn't in Catholicism at all.

Any opinions on this?
Thanks

Catholicism is very much apart of biblical teaching she is clearly who the scriptures talk about in Revelations 17 its very important to notice that the great harlot has daughters so if you think I'm against just the Roman Catholic church, I stand against all of the daughters who are following in their mothers footsteps, If you take note of the letters to the seven churches, there are people in all the churches even the the ones in alot of error who will be found worthy to wear white robes, but sadly it says only a few, I would say most of the biggest denominations have alot of error. and also strong points can be found in each. To me it appears each church has a portion of truth and portions of error. When Jesus comes He will burn up the errors and they will reconize whats left is the truth. best bet is to find a small body of believers that use their money to help fellow believers in need, and further the gospel, many of these giant denominations have such a high overhead that pennies on the dollar ever reach those in need and your just making some of these fat cats even fatter

 

[Pal Handy]

So many denominations exist because so many people don't believe the Bible. When you set aside the Bible as the supreme doctrinal authority, it leaves the people to make up whatever garbage they want to. So, everyone becomes his own god.

So what you are saying is that Martin Luther didn't believe strong
enough in the Bible?

Do you know what Jesus meant when he said all the law
could be fulfilled in two commandments?
Love God completely and absolutely and love others
as God has loved us...

Do you think that God has given you all the truth because you
"believe" in the Bible?

How do you know you have it all right and everyone else has it wrong?

Do you have a book written about you?

Can you answer with your "belief" in the Bible all the questions
that men have pondered for ages?

What is your purpose in the body of Christ?

Are you perfect?

Have you ever failed to do what you know is right while you
willingly chose to do what you know to be wrong?


You make it sound so simple but I think that you
don't have all the answers and that your answers are too simple
to even be consider a serious reply to a very complex question.

 

[NvxiaLee]

So what you are saying is that Martin Luther didn't believe strong
enough in the Bible?

You're presuming the Catholic Church did believe the Bible. That is not in evidence.

Do you know what Jesus meant when he said all the law
could be fulfilled in two commandments?
Love God completely and absolutely and love others
as God has loved us...

God gave us the Law, our schoolmaster, so that we would know how to love or neighbor and love God.

How do you know you have it all right and everyone else has it wrong?

Because I win every debate. (At this moment, I'm recording another victory.)

What is your purpose in the body of Christ?

To be a missionary to the fallen church.

Are you perfect?

Have you seen my spelling?

 

[Pal Handy]

You're presuming the Catholic Church did believe the Bible. That is not in evidence.

Nonsense...you didn't address my question, you mearly
made a statement.

God gave us the Law, our schoolmaster, so that we would know how to love or neighbor and love God.

Wrong...the law and knowlege of sin brought us under bondage and
under wrath and judgement. The law brought death...

Those who will be justified under the law must keep all the law and
if any one part of the law is broken then the offender is guitly of
the whole of the law. You will never know the love of God until you realize
the great judgement and punishment God has spare you from.

It is impossible for anyone to be JUSTIFIED under the law.


Because I win every debate. (At this moment, I'm recording another victory.)

You show yourself lacking a basic understanding of the word of God
that you have given as your guide but instead you show that you
are a novice who thinks that they have it all figured out.

You quote partial texts to justify your position without considering
all that Paul wrote concerning the law.

You are very imature and you love the confrontation and you think
that you have the truth but you are sadly lacking in a relationship with God who is Love.

If you had a relationship with God and knew Him you would not be here
ingendering strife and thinking you are doing God's will by winning arguements.

I have met many as you and I pity you because you are not
doing the will of the Father, you are bringing division and strife.

I will no longer engage you in debate because that will only
feed your ego and pour gas on the fire of division you bring.

To be a missionary to the fallen church.

Very grandiose...

Have you seen my spelling?

Father...help this person to know you.
Help him to see that you are Love and that you
delight in the peacemakers.
Father send your Spirit upon this person and break
off anything that is not of you and bring your truth
of who you are and what you desire into this persons life.
In Jesus name I pray...


1 John 4:7,8
[ Knowing God Through Love ] Beloved, let us love one another,
for love is of God; and everyone who loves is born of God and knows God.
He who does not love does not know God, for God is love.


Proverbs 10:12
Hatred stirs up strife, But love covers all sins.

Proverbs 13:10
By pride comes nothing but strife, But with the well-advised is wisdom.

Proverbs 15:18
A wrathful man stirs up strife, But he who is slow to anger allays contention.

Proverbs 16:28
A perverse man sows strife, And a whisperer separates the best of friends.

Proverbs 17:19
He who loves transgression loves strife, And he who exalts his gate seeks destruction.

Proverbs 28:25
He who is of a proud heart stirs up strife, But he who trusts in the LORD will be prospered.

Proverbs 29:22
An angry man stirs up strife, And a furious man abounds in transgression.

Romans 1:29
being filled with all unrighteousness, sexual immorality, wickedness, covetousness,
maliciousness; full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, evil-mindedness; they are whisperers,

Proverbs 6
16 These six things the LORD hates,
Yes, seven are an abomination to Him:
17 A proud look,
A lying tongue,
Hands that shed innocent blood,
18 A heart that devises wicked plans,
Feet that are swift in running to evil,
19 A false witness who speaks lies,
And one who sows discord among brethren.

 

[seabe]

Okay so why do denominations exist?
Because of the expansion of the kingdom. Straight from the genesis of the church in the book of Acts. you'd see that Paul the apostole founded quiet a number of denominations.
These include a church at Corinth, Thessalonica, Colossa etc.

John the apostole also had "children of his own"
3 John 1:4
I have no greater joy than to hear that my children are walking in the truth.

2 John 1:1
To the lady chosen by God and to her children, whom I love in the truth—and not I only, but also all who know the truth

The apostoles were overseers for quiet a number of denominations.

With time i think denominations became independent and expanded ''exponentially''. There were missionaries, who spread the word and founded churches world wide and the result multiplication.

3 John 1:10
So when I come, I will call attention to what he is doing, spreading malicious nonsense about us. Not satisfied with that, he even refuses to welcome other believers. He also stops those who want to do so and puts them out of the church.

You'd find that in some cases, leaders don't do that which is good hence there'd be strife in congregations leaving others with no option but to found their own ministry. Some are "profit making" organisations and all sorts of evil. Result:yet more and more denominations.

If the bible is meant to interpret itself then why are there hundreds if not thousands of denominations? Also how do you know which ones are right and wrong?

I hope that the first part of the question is appropriately addressed above. For the second part,
1 John 3:12
Demetrius is well spoken of by everyone—and even by the truth itself. We also speak well of him, and you know that our testimony is true.

If you are in the truth, it will also testify. The truth does not change, nor established by the will or the wisdom of man. But it's in the word of God.
At some particular congregation, so we hear; they want to amend some laws so that they may be suitable for this generation. their foundation of the truth is questionable

If Catholicism prays to Mary and Saints is that enough to cross it off the list and call it an abomination or ungodly?

Only God almighty deserves our worship. If i was to define the hierachy, it's God (above) and men (lower), nothing like God Almighty, Mary, Pope, then Poor me!

Romans 3:23-24
for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 and all are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus.

If at all they deserve worship, then all would have sinned except them i.e. Mary, Pope etc.
So praying to another individual is Abomination and it's Ungodly.

We worship Jesus Christ, The Father of all Spirits, the Holy Spirit only. And we come to the Father in the name of Jesus Christ by the presence and the help of the Holy Spirit.

And what about the others? I went to Catholic school and gradually everyone who went became atheist. So I'm inclined to believe the holy spirit isn't in Catholicism at all.

The Holy Spirit does not bear any religion, he is not a christian either!. he is God almighty! All things are subject unto him. He is the God of life and he is no respector of persons. He created man in his image. He saves all who come to him, he opens our eyes so that we may see his truth
Any opinions on this?
Thanks

there you are.

 

[Dark_Lite]

1st time poster. Found this forum today, lurked for a bit, a lot of useful information here. I leveled up substantially within minutes.

Okay so why do denominations exist?
If the bible is meant to interpret itself then why are there hundreds if not thousands of denominations? Also how do you know which ones are right and wrong?
If Catholicism prays to Mary and Saints is that enough to cross it off the list and call it an abomination or ungodly?

And what about the others? I went to Catholic school and gradually everyone who went became atheist. So I'm inclined to believe the holy spirit isn't in Catholicism at all.

Any opinions on this?
Thanks

Well I see some people have already spread some misinformation about Catholicism. Ignore all that, unless you're looking for a laugh. Catholicism is historical Christianity, despite how much some fundamentalists try to deny it. From the year 33 to the year 1500, Christianity in the West was Catholicism. There were two schisms during this period, resulting in the Orthodox and Oriental Orthodox Churches in the east. But in the West, it was always Catholicism. It wasn't until the Protestant Reformation and Luther that Protestantism showed up.

Why are you "inclined to believe the holy spirit isn't in Catholicism at all" because all the people you know from Catholic school became atheists? Aside from having a very tiny sample size, why would you even use that as criteria? We could just as easily say the same thing about Fundamentalism because of how many people deconvert from that.

The questions you raise in this thread are why Protestantism doesn't have a historical leg to stand on. You have discovered the innate problem with Sola Scriptura. Before Luther, the Church decided and promulgated doctrine/dogma/disciple through Councils by examining the living Tradition of Christianity.

A house divided cannot stand. There is one Lord, one faith, one baptism. There is not one (sometimes three!) Lord(s), several thousand variations on the faith, and as many baptisms as are necessary. There is not true unity found in the false unity of the "invisible Church" where all its members embrace contradictory beliefs. True unity requires unity of belief. One faith means no doctrinal differences. Denominations exist because Luther and those who followed him thought they could reinvent Christianity in their own images. And they were somewhat successful, unfortunately.

 

[timf]

Why do denominations exist?

1 Corinthians 1:10-13 Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment. For it hath been declared unto me of you, my brethren, by them which are of the house of Chloe, that there are contentions among you. Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ. Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul?

The book of Galatians was written to a church that was starting to follow the flesh rather than the Spirit. In the list of works of the flesh is the word HERISIS from which we get heresy, but at the time simply meant division.

The reason so many denominations exist is because Christians love to be "right" more than follow truth. The Pharisees thought they were "right". Jesus called this "leaven" for its infectious nature.

It is the elevation of self that is the hallmark of the flesh and the reason why so many Christians are so far from their Savior.

The purpose of the church is to help Christians become like Jesus (Eph 4). By this standard, it is difficult to think of any denomination that can honestly claim "success".

As the world becomes increasingly collectivized under Satan, most churches will be drawn along. This leaves the Christian who would rather follow Jesus than a denomination in a difficult position. There is an increasing darkness settling over our land. The Christian needs to hold high the light and love of Jesus for those few who would still follow Him. We need to seek out those older and wiser Christians who clearly show this light and love in their lives so that we can learn from them and have fellowship with them in a way similar to the early church.

As persecutions of Christians increase, we should see a disappearance of denominational distinctives as a "luxury" of the flesh that can no longer be afforded.

 

[Pal Handy]

1 Corinthians 1:10-13 Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.

Good info..thanks...

Many churches that pull away from other denominations quote
the first part of that verse...

They think that we should all think alike and their doctrines will help us
achieve the unity they think this scripture is refering to...

Rarely do they quote all of the word concerning division, strife,
and partisan thinking in the body of Christ.

To me many act as if Christ died and left the earth and so
we are all on our own and so we must figure it all out on
our own and so we must provide answers to questions
as best we can while picking out the text from the Bible
that would be our best guess.

Jesus said that it was good that He went away because then His Father
would send the Comforter, the Holy Spirit to lead us into all TRUTH.

So if we have the Bible and it contains all truth,
why do we need the Hoy Spirit.

The Holy Spirit leads....that is why we need Him.

The Holy Spirit is not going to pick one scripture out
of the Bible and build an unbalanced truth around it,
but men will...

The Holy spirit leads us into ALL TRUTH on a particular subject.
not a partial unbalanced truth that causes division and strife.

We all as God's people need to stop acting like God has abandoned us as
orpans and realize we have the Spirit of Truth at our disposal if
we would ask God to send the Holy Spirit to us so He can
sort half or partial truths from the whole truth.

The truth on many subjects is not always a simple one scripture
reply but often is more like a diamond with many facets.

To discover the whole truth on a subject the many facets must be examined
and then and only then can we see the beauty of the whole diamond
of truth as revealed by the Holy Spirit...

Men seek to wrangle and fight over the answers they choose but
the Holy Spirit brings peace and unity in the truth that He reveals.

This is how we can discern between the wisdom of men and of God.

God's wisdom through the Holy Spirit brings peace and unity to
the body of Christ.

 

[hedrick]

You'll get different answers depending upon the orientation of the people. Some people will say denominations exist because for one reason for another people don't all accept the true church, which of course is their church.

My answer is that denominations exist for a combination of reasons:
1) We don't all agree, here as on politics or anything else
2) Christianity developed fairly early (within a century or so) the idea that everyone had to agree in order to be in a church.
3) Since the 16th Cent most countries are no longer willing to outlaw every Church except one.

When you put these three things together you are bound to have lots of churches. Whether that's a problem of not depends upon your answer to 2 other questions:

1) Do you think Jesus wants one denomination in the first place? Many people think that in the NT, the basis unit is the congregation, and larger units as there for convenience and cooperation on projects too big for one congregation.
2) When Paul calls for unity, do you think he means everyone agreeing, or people accepting each other despite somewhat different ideas?

If you think Jesus wants a single denomination with fairly narrow limits on what is acceptable, I think you have to conclude that we have a big problem. And I see no real prospect for fixing it other than asking everyone else to accept our own approach. If you think Jesus left a lot of leeway for us to make decisions, that congregations are the basic unit and denominations exist to support them, and Paul's pleas for unity are actually pleas for mutual tolerance, then the only problem we have is that a lot of people don't believe that.

I think over the last century or two Christianity as a whole has moved a significant way in the direction of the second approach. And surveys suggest that ordinary members have moved a lot further than leaders. Theology groups in a site like CF are probably the most divisive, because people who participate in theology discussions here by definition care more about theology than the typical Christian.

 

[bluegreysky]

Because everyone thinks to get to heaven you have to put emphasis on something specific.

 

[bobafett1701]

the simple answer? its an unfortunate bypoduct of God giving us freedom of choice, there are so many because not everyone can agree how to worship and honour God. think on it, we don't all like the same color, tv shows, food, etc

is it any wonder we all can't all do things the same way, an no offence to anyone who is non demoninational, but surely b being part of an non demoninational church..you have unwittingly created another demonination? just saying

 

[paul1149]

Some of the reasons are simply logistic. A family of churches will spring up and they tend to band together. It's easier to administer a smaller unit. But other divisions are due to less justifiable reasons, such as different minor interpretations and practices, ego and ambition.

A lot of the division is ok, as long as we still regard the guy down the road as our Christian brother and work together with him for the sake of the Kingdom. But when denomination becomes denominationalism, we get into trouble. Denominationalism is a proud, ignorant, separatist dynamic that works counter to Kingdom-building, and therefore, counter to Christ.

I'm personally not enamored of the RCC, but when I did a study on it several years ago, and visited one weekday mass, I was shocked to see the presence of the Lord in the liturgy. I'm not a liturgy guy. That put my doctrinal smugness in its place, and I've been more accepting of the entire Body ever since. But that's not to say I'm in agreement on all points of doctrine. But that's pretty much the way it goes for now down here.