Why do churches give into CCM

Proper Worship? I'm not so sure there is one answer. The highest priority probably lies with the worshipper's heart and his / her offering to God. There are Biblical issues and implications, and tied to that are the worshipper's understanding, maturity, etc. I also believe there are cultural implications - different expectations in western culures, vs eastern cultures - differences in youth subcultures, gen x, newly-weds and nearly deads, etc... How big is my God? Big enough to appreciate all the nuances of His children.

Hockley said:

Proper Worship? I'm not so sure there is one answer. The highest priority probably lies with the worshipper's heart and his / her offering to God. There are Biblical issues and implications, and tied to that are the worshipper's understanding, maturity, etc. I also believe there are cultural implications - different expectations in western culures, vs eastern cultures - differences in youth subcultures, gen x, newly-weds and nearly deads, etc... How big is my God? Big enough to appreciate all the nuances of His children.

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I'm in agreement with you on that one.

While some might think traditional hymns and a pipe organ to be the way, up until the 10th century, the organ was held in very low regard by the church. A friend of mine goes so far to say "what is this god of pipes we see in so many churches?" He views it as an idol, stating that it opens the door for people to worship the music, rather than Jesus. While I disagree with his viewpoint, to some extent, we need to be careful not to let our desires for a style of music, whether it be traditional, CCM, or even chanting, take us away from our true focus, Jesus Christ.

Imho, worship music must be chosen to match the needs of the congregation, and am a fan of multiple services where practical. If music is used, it must draw us to the Word, and God has given us this wonderful diversity within the body of believers as well as diversity in worship of Him.

Ron

Looks like everyone has given up or agrees with the last few posts...

to be perfectly honest, I couldn't care less what style of music the service has as long as it presents sound doctrine that is actually worshipful to the Lord.

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Amen!!

Thank goodness someone has found the real issue. The style of your worship dosen't matter but the doctrine presented in the worship does. TO say that the styles matter is not fair since hymns and "CCM style worship" both come from the western church. Look at other parts of the world and you will find very differnet worship. So all styles are okay if the doctrine is good.
That said, I want to add one little thing. I grew up in a church that does mix hymns and modern worship. However, the vast majority is modern. I myself lead worship in our youth group and do a equal mix of modern music and hymns (believe it or not most of the other youth love hymns also). The reason I prefer hymns is because in general, again in general, they have much more sound doctrine. Many of the modern songs do not go anywhere near as deep into theology as hymns do. They are designed to ellicite an emotional response. This can be dangourous if over used (I believe in many church includeing my own they are over used). I do not think modern songs are bad. I just think that we to get our churchs off of milk and on to meat.

I think that Christian rock is great. It is a way to reach people who don't like the standard hymns. If they see that they can listen to their favorite type of music and still praise God, they may change a lot of the bad things that they listen to. Some types of music just aren't for everyone.

What? Are you talking about? Worship music is for entertainment. Then you better read some of your bible because alot of the contemporary music (ex. Hillsongs, Delirious, Integrity Music) take scriptures and use it for worship.. I think people get too caught up in the sound instead of the meaning of the song. "I'm coming back to the heart of worship" is a song by Sonic Flood.. That is what should take place during worship.. Whether there is music or not.. We should still be able to worship..

Well you need to be very very careful with CCM Music because some might be for Satan. I am not saying you can't listen to it but be careful with Wolves in Sheeps clothing.

Rich48 said:

I see nothing wrong with ccm in a church setting. Why not? If it praises the Lord, why not use it? If it uplifts one's spirit, why not use it? Our church uses all types of music for praising the Lord. Yes, we use some ccm; we also use praise and worship music, and yes, we use hymns.

Rich

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I'd like to see Ozzy do a Christmas carols album.

Well you need to be very very careful with CCM Music because some might be for Satan. I am not saying you can't listen to it but be careful with Wolves in Sheeps clothing.

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the same thing can be said for pretty much all Christian music. The key thing is to be able to discern between worshipful, sound music, and outright heretical music being passed off as worship music.

Correct me if I'm wrong (I'm sure I didn't need to say that). I don't listen to much CCM because I live in a rural area & the only Christian Music radio station I can get plays Southern Gospel. I have a 13 year old daughter that is very sensitive to songs that deal with death...whether it be hers, mine or Christ's...it is very upsetting to her. I think a lot of "old traditional hymns" deal with death & afterlife, where possibly CCM deals more with living & life. My husband & his singing partner sing Southern Gospel & she refuses to go listen to them sing if they are going to sing anything dealing with death. They have to sing the "happier isn't is wonderful to be alive & let's enjoy life" songs rather than the "it's going to be wonderful when the world ends & we all die" songs(that's how the young children see it).

alright.

first off, I want to thank Rich48 on post #20, you have lots of good points there.

On to the rest...

This-

Jenda said:

I think it is a fine line to tread when using music that is way out, one way or the other. If CCM music turns many people off (and I know I am not too keen on it), as well as some of the old hymns that many feel weight down the service, why not have special services for those specific types of worship? It might be a drawing point to bring in others who like that type of music, but have been turned off of worship in the past, to begin to find a way to worship Christ.

Just a thought.

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is a DANGEROUS popular line of thought! How are we to be united as the body of Christ if we're separated by musical genre preference? This is like splitting churches up over carpet colors!!!

Before I go ANY further, some questions must be answered.

What is worship? Where is the Biblical basis of worship? What is the history of worship? **Is there a difference between praise and worship?** Is there a reason the entire weekly gathering together of a church is called a worship service and not a praise and worship service? (assuming it's called so wherever you are).

These are CRUCIAL issues, and yet how many have taken the time to investigate them!?

In everyone's defense, I hadn't until college made me in my Introduction to Christian Life class.

I don't really have time to elaborate on these questions, but a book i recommend reading is Worship Old and New by Robert E. Webber. This is a great introduction to the core of worship.

Here also is a great thought to ponder: Should any part of worship be dependent upon emotion? Since song is a very popular type of worship, should we be singing songs that depend upon emotion? i.e. (from I Could Sing of Your Love Forever) "I'm happy to be in the truth, and I will daily lift my hands, for I will always sing of when your love came down" How many of us could truthfully sing that song? I can't even sing the happy part every Sunday! Are then we to be lying to God as a community? (the lyrics are exaggerated here, but lots of lyrics are lyrics of "emotion" and not as much "truth.")

answers, please.

I don't think I need to apologize for having an emotional response. What Christ has done for me is pretty overwhelming - I feel it. Emotions are a part of the human experience. I choose with my head to embrace with my heart.

The validity of worship is about truth, not necessarily in the style, although it does seem to me that musch of CCM is shallow and filled with fluff, though that's not to say there isn't any meaningful CCM.

I've struggled with the emotion part of worship myself, I tend to be a contemplative and I don't often get jump up and down excited about anything. Emotion does play a part in worship though. We were called to worship in spirit and in truth. God is worth getting excited and emotional about, if our relationship with God doesn't impact us on that level then I think we should examine our relationship with God. However, our faith and relationship with God should not depend on emotion. The Bible makes clear that we won't always feel warm fuzzies about God or about anything, but our relationship with God must still remain true even in our Gethsemanie (which was still highly emotional). Read the Psalms, about half are positive in tone and half cries of help and despair. All are full of passion. You can't say that any of them are unemotional.

A year or so ago I went to a Passion worship conference and had an interesting worship experience. Most of the people were singing at the top of their lungs, eyes closed, hands in the air. As much as I tried to get in the worship, I felt really distracted and really wrestled with why I could not really get into the worship experience. I prayed and I tried to get my heart to engage the way those around me were. Later that week I dropped an email to an older woman in the church whom I've found to be a person with some wonderful insight into our relationship with God. I shared with her my struggle in my worship experience at Passion. Her reply that I was engaged in worship, and maybe a deeper worship than many of those around me. That's not to question the authenticity of the worship of other people there, none of us have any right to question whether someone really was engaged in worship of the Lord (I believe God is the One that knows the heart, none of the rest of us do). But that I was really seeking to connect with God in a way that was meaningful, the desire itself is worship. Worship is not the singing of our songs, it is the living of a God focused life filled with a desire to know God, to love Him.

There are lots of times when our church sings songs that maybe at that moment I can't say I honestly feel that. So what I often do is sit and pray that though I may not be able to honestly say that, that I desire to be able to say that honestly. I pray that my heart may be conformed to what I know to be True.

BTW, in church several years ago someone spoke up after singing "I Could Sing of Your Love Forever" and told the worship pastor that the words were wrong, he said it should be "I WILL Sing of Your Love Forever". That's how I sing that song, and if I don't feel that I can say it honestly I pray for that. But whether I feel like it now or not, I'm going to be singing of the love of Christ for the rest of eternity, no if's, and's, or but's about it

My email question about worship:

I had this come up on Saturday night and it's been troubling me some. I know there's some stuff I need to look at in myself, but I want to get a feel for what's my deal and what's other people's unreasonable expectations of how we're supposed to respond in worship. Going to the Passion show on Saturday night I was really troubled by my inability to really get into a spirit of worship. There were some things externally that I really feel like blocked me. Just the whole setup I felt like distracted me, the videos, the lights, the sound. I reminded me of when I went to see Aerosmith. There were a lot of new songs and I always find it difficult to worship if I have to stop and read the words and try to figure out the tempo of the song. I'm also always on guard if I feel like something is aimed at an emotional experience, and I really felt like that's what Passion was aimed at. What they said was solid, but it felt aimed at an emotional high. So Saturday night my mind was going overtime and my heart never really engaged in worship. I came close a couple of times on songs I was familiar with. At the same time I was thinking, why should any external thing keep me from engaging in worship? I should be able to worship anywhere, anytime, and not be distracted if things aren't perfect. I know I'm not a real excitable person, Ramin and I are polar opposites. So I'm not likely to be jumping up and down screaming. But my heart should be able to engage in worship despite distractions. I worship better Sundays at church, I always have a tough time worshiping in growth group.

Her response:

Now, about worship. Here's what I've come up with since yesterday. To answer Ramin's question, I don't think many people carry the high they get from something like a Passion concert out into the world with them, mainly because the high they got wasn't really spiritual at all. It was high, yes, but mostly generated by exciting things that were good but not a result of being filled with the Spirit. However, I don't think it's bad to have that kind of fun, because those are the kinds of things that God uses to teach us about desiring and experiencing Him. When our experience is good, we can know that when we experience God it will be similar but even better. God has designed so many things like that into the world: natural wonders, the beauty of music and art, romance, even sex -- they all have hints of the awesomeness of being united with God. So stuff like that concert can be great teaching tools for many people. They just don't move everybody, and that's nothing to be worried or ashamed about. Sometimes the worship songs do move me, and that's a gift of God's choice for me at that moment. When I don't feel moved, that is also what God has decided is right for me at that moment. Yes, when I feel unmoved I do ask God to examine me and reveal anything that is blocking my worship, but if nothing comes to mind I don't keep worrying about it. I just keep praying and worship in the way that my feelings lead me that day. I also know that God may wait until later to show me that I had a problem. So what I decided yesterday is that I would rather have just one true worship experience in the midst of many days that feel "dry," instead of many, many days of being emotionally moved without actually experiencing God. ("Better is one day in Your house...")

I'm sure that concerts, etc., can be just fine, but there are some people who can get hooked on the idea that worship always makes us feel up, and they follow bands or look for things like healing services or something that generates those feelings. To be honest, I even resent people insisting that the congregation respond with a perky "good morning!" first thing on Sunday. There are quiet ways to worship, too, and I have had some really emotionally painful days that I look back on as some of my deepest days of worship. On those days I feel totally dependent on God, surrendered to Him and looking to Him for every word I say and everything I do. Those who don't understand the way God works would want to "cheer me up" and get me to stop being so "depressed." I can't explain it to them. I just have to ignore them and lean even more on God, and pray for Him to show them what He wants them to know in His own time.

So what does it mean to worship? I think I am worshipping God any time I desire Him, and even any time I wish I desired Him but have to admit that I don't right now. Whenever I think of Him and long for Him and want to be like Him and want to see Him and reveal Him to others in the midst of my circumstances, then I am putting Him above all else, and that is worship. So when you were at that concert and you wanted to be drawn toward Him by the things that were happening, you were worshipping Him, even if it didn't "feel" like it, and even if the people around you thought you were unmoved by it. After all, you were moved, weren't you? Didn't you leave there feeling even more aware of the depth of your longing for God and the hugeness of the hole in your soul that only He can fill? The bigger that hole gets, the more of Himself He can give you. We can't let other people's opinions of what worship looks like affect us in ways that make us miss what is happening in our own souls. Just engage with God, and if the worship music and all that is going on enhances that, great; if not, ignore it. I'm even getting to the point where I sing very selectively -- I only sing when my soul really agrees with what is being said. I'm sure some people might really wonder about me if they could see that my lips aren't moving with everyone else's!

Way Cool. And with grace.

boilerblues said:

I'm even getting to the point where I sing very selectively -- I only sing when my soul really agrees with what is being said. I'm sure some people might really wonder about me if they could see that my lips aren't moving with everyone else's!

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I have also started to come to that point. I feel very awkward in the service, but I guess I'm just trying to worship honestly. I used to more, but if I can't sing something like "I've got the joy joy joy joy down in my heart" I should be asking God why I can't and trying to resolve it.

In response to Hockley-

I'm not saying emotions are bad or that you can't sing with emotion when worshipping, I'm only saying that singing songs that require a specific emotion might not be suitable for a worship experience. This is an issue that cannot be contained by one simple answer, at least as far as I can see.


boilerblues -

Yes, the psalms are passionate. I guess I also have a beef that the only ones we choose to sing are the "happy" ones and songs along that line. There must be a time for the others. I have yet to come to an understanding about the role of such songs in worship. Like I said, these questions cannot be contained by a simple answer.


I have yet to truly come to an understanding of song in worship at all, but something tells me that alot of what I'm experiencing is not what song was meant for.

iamtheproblem

Like what you say. The human experience has quite the spectrum and the happy sappy is not always where everyone is. Perfectly happy to say that sometimes a worship time is more meaningful / moving than other times - depending where one is at at the moment. And yet one can worship, or be as worshipful as he / she can be. Know what I mean???? Its still there! As a child of God, just lay it before him.

Most churches probably employ this as a strategy to make their services more attractive to the youth. The kids of today, the quote unquote "MTV generation" are more apt to be attracted to music that speaks to them in a musical language that they are familiar with, and Churches and Youth Groups probably find that this type of music keeps kids away from the "Evil alternatives" out there.