Why do Christians pray?

[Wiccan_Child]

What do Christians mean when they say, "I'll pray for you", or more generally, "I'll pray for X", be X a person or a desired outcome (a speedy recovery, a religious conversion, etc)? What, exactly, does a person think will occur after such a prayer is uttered?

Do they believe God will do something that he might otherwise not do? Is a prayer for a speedy recovery a request to God to make something happen (God willing)?

Or, is there no intention of an actual change? Does the phrase, "I prayed for you", not refer to a request to God for real-world change?

 

[Wiccan_Child]

No one?

 

[Wiccan_Child]

It's not a trap - I'm genuinely curious if Christians who say "I'll pray for you" are simply talking to God with no expectation of change, or are petitioning him to enact a real change in the world that might otherwise not happen.

 

[Faulty]

God answers prayer. We pray to Him because He hears and answers us.

 

[Wiccan_Child]

God answers prayer. We pray to Him because He hears and answers us.

OK. I have some follow-up questions: does God answer all petitioner prayers, or just some? My understanding implies the latter, but your answer implies the former.

 

[Faulty]

OK. I have some follow-up questions: does God answer all petitioner prayers, or just some?

Scripture teaches He hears the prayers of those who belong to Him, those who heve been washed by the blood of Christ, forgiven and reconciled to Him.

Scripture tells us our prayers are before His Throne,

And another angel came and stood at the altar with a golden censer, and he was given much incense to offer with the prayers of all the saints on the golden altar before the throne, and the smoke of the incense, with the prayers of the saints, rose before God from the hand of the angel.
Rev 8:3-4
​

And also, "The prayer of a righteous person has great power as it is working" James 5:16

And again, "The sacrifice of the wicked is an abomination to the Lord, but the prayer of the upright is acceptable to him." Prov 15:8

And, "The Lord is far from the wicked, but he hears the prayer of the righteous" Prov 15:29

There is no promise He would give audience or respond to the prayer of one who is not His.

 

[Wiccan_Child]

Scripture teaches He hears the prayers of those who belong to Him, those who heve been washed by the blood of Christ, forgiven and reconciled to Him.

Scripture tells us our prayers are before His Throne,

And another angel came and stood at the altar with a golden censer, and he was given much incense to offer with the prayers of all the saints on the golden altar before the throne, and the smoke of the incense, with the prayers of the saints, rose before God from the hand of the angel.
Rev 8:3-4
​

And also, "The prayer of a righteous person has great power as it is working" James 5:16

And again, "The sacrifice of the wicked is an abomination to the Lord, but the prayer of the upright is acceptable to him." Prov 15:8

And, "The Lord is far from the wicked, but he hears the prayer of the righteous" Prov 15:29

There is no promise He would give audience or respond to the prayer of one who is not His.

OK. So, there are some whose prayers are ignored (perhaps those whose prayers are ingenuine), but real Christians always get their prayers heard.

Do all heard prayers get a positive response (a 'yes'), or do some genuine prayers get rejected?

 

[suzybeezy]

God answers all prayers, but its not like a wishlist. You can pray, Lord give me a million bucks, but that doesn't mean he's going to give it to you. He knows your future, so he knows what's best for you. Or you may pray, Lord don't let this person die, yet he may take them home anyway for a multitude of reasons including their remaining on earth may have meant they would have endured living in more pain or whatever. Sometimes God answers yes, sometimes he answers no, sometimes he answers wait. As you grow in your faith you learn a discernment for understanding how the Lord is working in your life and how he's answering your prayers. When you talk to most Christians they will tell you that they definitively have examples in their lives where they know beyond any shadow of a doubt that the Lord directly answered their prayers. One thing I know for sure - the Lord always knows best. I pray cause I enjoy having that dialogue with the Lord and developing the relationship with him so that I can recognize him in my life.

 

[secondtimearound]

What do Christians mean when they say, "I'll pray for you", or more generally, "I'll pray for X", be X a person or a desired outcome (a speedy recovery, a religious conversion, etc)? What, exactly, does a person think will occur after such a prayer is uttered?

We mean we are going to talk to G-d, with Jesus as our intercessor. A Christian should expect G-d's will, as G-d is not a genie in a bottle.

Do they believe God will do something that he might otherwise not do? Is a prayer for a speedy recovery a request to God to make something happen (God willing)?

James 4:2 - You desire and do not have, so you murder. You covet and cannot obtain, so you fight and quarrel. You do not have, because you do not ask.

This does not mean G-d will leave us in want, if He does it is to bring us closer to Him as we have gone astray. G-d wants nothing more than a relationship with us and prayer is how you obtain, develop and maintain said relationship.

Or, is there no intention of an actual change? Does the phrase, "I prayed for you", not refer to a request to God for real-world change?

We are requesting something from G-d.

 

[Wiccan_Child]

God answers all prayers, but its not like a wishlist. You can pray, Lord give me a million bucks, but that doesn't mean he's going to give it to you. He knows your future, so he knows what's best for you.

So, if you pray for something, he's more likely to grant it if it's in your best interests?

Or you may pray, Lord don't let this person die, yet he may take them home anyway for a multitude of reasons including their remaining on earth may have meant they would have endured living in more pain or whatever.

So, diminishing someone's suffering is one of the reasons God will say "Yes" to prayers of petition or request?

Sometimes God answers yes, sometimes he answers no, sometimes he answers wait.

But he does, at least some of the time, answer, "Yes"?

As you grow in your faith you learn a discernment for understanding how the Lord is working in your life and how he's answering your prayers. When you talk to most Christians they will tell you that they definitively have examples in their lives where they know beyond any shadow of a doubt that the Lord directly answered their prayers. One thing I know for sure - the Lord always knows best. I pray cause I enjoy having that dialogue with the Lord and developing the relationship with him so that I can recognize him in my life.

So, prayers of petition that are answered with, "Yes", can be known and identified, at least by the petitioner?

 

[Wiccan_Child]

We mean we are going to talk to G-d, with Jesus as our intercessor. A Christian should expect G-d's will, as G-d is not a genie in a bottle.

So you believe that any prayers of petition are futile? That prayer is only a way to talk to God, not ask him to do something?

James 4:2 - You desire and do not have, so you murder. You covet and cannot obtain, so you fight and quarrel. You do not have, because you do not ask.

This does not mean G-d will leave us in want, if He does it is to bring us closer to Him as we have gone astray. G-d wants nothing more than a relationship with us and prayer is how you obtain, develop and maintain said relationship.

So, he'll grant a prayer of request if it brings the person closer to God?

We are requesting something from G-d.

Do you believe these requests are ever granted?

 

[ebia]

What do Christians mean when they say, "I'll pray for you", or more generally, "I'll pray for X", be X a person or a desired outcome (a speedy recovery, a religious conversion, etc)? What, exactly, does a person think will occur after such a prayer is uttered?

Do they believe God will do something that he might otherwise not do? Is a prayer for a speedy recovery a request to God to make something happen (God willing)?

Or, is there no intention of an actual change? Does the phrase, "I prayed for you", not refer to a request to God for real-world change?

God changes his mind in response to petitions in scripture, why not now?

 

[secondtimearound]

So you believe that any prayers of petition are futile? That prayer is only a way to talk to God, not ask him to do something?

No on both accounts. I say that in order to be granted it must be in accordance with G-d's will. In regards to your second question, if I ask you for something than I am talking to you am I not? In prayer the Christian should not be a spoiled child, only asking for gain, but also thankful.

So, he'll grant a prayer of request if it brings the person closer to God?

If it is in accordance with his will, than yes. If it brings a person farther from God than no. Our Father knows best.

Do you believe these requests are ever granted?

I have experienced G-d in prayer, so yes, without a doubt in my mind and with all of my heart G-d grants requests.

 

[Wiccan_Child]

No on both accounts. I say that in order to be granted it must be in accordance with G-d's will.

OK. This would seem to imply that prayers of request can't change God's mind: if something is God's will, it's going to be done anyway. If we pray for something, we'll get 'yes' if it's God's will and 'no' if it's not, but the actual outcome doesn't change - God's will is done, what he wants to happen will happen, regardless of whether or not we pray for it. If we pray for something to happen, and it happens to coincide with what God has already planned, then the request will presumably be 'yes' - not because God's mind has been changed, but because the request will be granted by virtue of the fact that it was already going to happen.

So, if I've understood that correctly, it doesn't seem that prayers of request are actually ever granted. A mother's desperate pleas for her son's survival is granted only if it fits in with God's will, and if it fits God's will it is already going to happen.

So, your belief that prayers of petition are answered with a 'yes' seems to contradict with your belief in the supremacy of God's will. That is, a 'yes' is contingent on the request meeting God's will, which is presumably already going to happen.

In regards to your second question, if I ask you for something than I am talking to you am I not? In prayer the Christian should not be a spoiled child, only asking for gain, but also thankful.

Certainly, but prayers of petition aren't just, "God, let me score with that chick!". A mother praying for her son to survive the car accident, a son praying the shadow on his mother's breast x-ray isn't the big-C, a homeless man praying for shelter for his wife and kids, a young girl praying for the rape to stop - these are not the prayers of spoiled children. Prayers of these sort are arguably more common than the more materialistic variety.

 

[Faulty]

OK. So, there are some whose prayers are ignored (perhaps those whose prayers are ingenuine), but real Christians always get their prayers heard.

They may all be genuine prayers, but no one who has not believed and embraced Jesus, as revealed in the Bible, as the sole source of their salvation, has any reason to be confident their prayer will be heard. They have been given no such promise at any time.

Does that mean God will ignore them in all instances? Certainly not. God is sovereign and does as He desires.

It's far better for one to come to Him in genuine faith and repentence, believing in Him and being born again, then making their prayers known to Him.

Do all heard prayers get a positive response (a 'yes'), or do some genuine prayers get rejected?

Some are answered right away, some are answered but deferred, and others are rejected. Examples are...

Answered:
Fear not, Daniel, for from the first day that you set your heart to understand and humbled yourself before your God, your words have been heard, and I have come because of your words.
Dan 10:12

Deferred:
When he opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain for the word of God and for the witness they had borne. They cried out with a loud voice, “O Sovereign Lord, holy and true, how long before you will judge and avenge our blood on those who dwell on the earth?” Then they were each given a white robe and told to rest a little longer, until the number of their fellow servants and their brothers should be complete, who were to be killed as they themselves had been.
Rev 6:9-11


Rejected:
You ask and do not receive, because you ask wrongly, to spend it on your passions.
James 4:3
​

 

[Faulty]

OK. This would seem to imply that prayers of request can't change God's mind: if something is God's will, it's going to be done anyway. If we pray for something, we'll get 'yes' if it's God's will and 'no' if it's not, but the actual outcome doesn't change - God's will is done, what he wants to happen will happen, regardless of whether or not we pray for it. If we pray for something to happen, and it happens to coincide with what God has already planned, then the request will presumably be 'yes' - not because God's mind has been changed, but because the request will be granted by virtue of the fact that it was already going to happen.

So, if I've understood that correctly, it doesn't seem that prayers of request are actually ever granted. A mother's desperate pleas for her son's survival is granted only if it fits in with God's will, and if it fits God's will it is already going to happen.

So, your belief that prayers of petition are answered with a 'yes' seems to contradict with your belief in the supremacy of God's will. That is, a 'yes' is contingent on the request meeting God's will, which is presumably already going to happen.

No. Consider this exchange after the Israelites made and worshipped the golden calf. I cut some of the prayer of Moses out for brevity's sake.

"Now therefore let me alone, that my wrath may burn hot against them and I may consume them, in order that I may make a great nation of you.”

But Moses implored the Lord his God and said, “O Lord, why does your wrath burn hot against your people, whom you have brought out of the land of Egypt with great power and with a mighty hand?... Turn from your burning anger and relent from this disaster against your people..."

And the Lord relented from the disaster that he had spoken of bringing on his people.
Ex 32:10-14
​

 

[an oddity]

We Christians pray because of James 4:2 which reads;
Ye lust, and have not: ye kill, and desire to have, and cannot obtain: ye fight and war, yet ye have not, because ye ask not.

We have not because we ask not. When we pray we are aware that God sees things as they will be after they are worked through. We do not have that ability, so we know that he will answer our prayer in the manner that works according to his will, because that is the best outcome that can happen. Sometimes we may pray for him to heal someone, and he does heal them, but by calling them home to Him self.

 

[Wiccan_Child]

They may all be genuine prayers, but no one who has not believed and embraced Jesus, as revealed in the Bible, as the sole source of their salvation, has any reason to be confident their prayer will be heard. They have been given no such promise at any time.

Does that mean God will ignore them in all instances? Certainly not. God is sovereign and does as He desires.

It's far better for one to come to Him in genuine faith and repentence, believing in Him and being born again, then making their prayers known to Him.

OK, but my question was about whether genuine Christians get their prayers heard, not non-Christians. If a genuine Christian prays, are his or her prayers always heard?

Some are answered right away, some are answered but deferred, and others are rejected. Examples are...

Answered:
Fear not, Daniel, for from the first day that you set your heart to understand and humbled yourself before your God, your words have been heard, and I have come because of your words.
Dan 10:12

Deferred:
When he opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain for the word of God and for the witness they had borne. They cried out with a loud voice, “O Sovereign Lord, holy and true, how long before you will judge and avenge our blood on those who dwell on the earth?” Then they were each given a white robe and told to rest a little longer, until the number of their fellow servants and their brothers should be complete, who were to be killed as they themselves had been.
Rev 6:9-11


Rejected:
You ask and do not receive, because you ask wrongly, to spend it on your passions.
James 4:3
​

No. Consider this exchange after the Israelites made and worshipped the golden calf. I cut some of the prayer of Moses out for brevity's sake.

"Now therefore let me alone, that my wrath may burn hot against them and I may consume them, in order that I may make a great nation of you.”

But Moses implored the Lord his God and said, “O Lord, why does your wrath burn hot against your people, whom you have brought out of the land of Egypt with great power and with a mighty hand?... Turn from your burning anger and relent from this disaster against your people..."

And the Lord relented from the disaster that he had spoken of bringing on his people.
Ex 32:10-14
​

Then are you saying God does something contrary to his will? That seems to make no sense. If God's mind can be changed by prayer, but only if the request fits in with God's will, then that implies that God's intended course of action isn't his will - but surely what he already intends to do is, by definition, his will?

Suppose no one ever prays for anything to happen. God does whatever it is God does - this is his will. If someone prays for something to happen, you say it will only be answered with a 'yes' if it fits in with God's will - but God's will is already going to happen, as it's God's will (that is, something that isn't God's will won't happen).

Or, are you saying that something can happen that God doesn't want?

 

[Wiccan_Child]

We Christians pray because of James 4:2 which reads;
Ye lust, and have not: ye kill, and desire to have, and cannot obtain: ye fight and war, yet ye have not, because ye ask not.

We have not because we ask not. When we pray we are aware that God sees things as they will be after they are worked through. We do not have that ability, so we know that he will answer our prayer in the manner that works according to his will, because that is the best outcome that can happen. Sometimes we may pray for him to heal someone, and he does heal them, but by calling them home to Him self.

OK. Are you saying that God does, occasionally, respond to a prayer request for healing by saying "OK, yes, I'll make that happen. I hadn't planned to, but I've changed my mind and will make it happen"?

What I'm trying to suss out is whether prayer can change God's mind. If someone prays and happens to change God's mind, then presumably something different would happen if he hadn't prayed. That seems to run counter to the idea that God is sovereign and only his will is done.

 

[ViaCrucis]

I pray because I want to immerse myself in God, to seek God, and to be conformed to His will and His purposes.

I pray not to turn God toward me, but that God might turn me toward Himself.

-CryptoLutheran