Why do Christians have trouble with accepting Evolution?

miamited said:

Hi hieronymus,

Well, let's discuss this point of view. Why did Eve eat the fruit?

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Genesis 3
Read it carefully.
It's not the tree of science (the human endeavour to investigate and analyse God's Creation).

miamited said:

Hi hieronymus,

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Hi Ted.
(i forgot)

Hieronymus said:

Genesis 3
Read it carefully.
It's not the tree of science (the human endeavour to investigate and analyse God's Creation).

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Hi hieronymus,

No, of course it isn't. But I'm not speaking of the physical nature of the fruit or the tree. I'm addressing the thought process that Eve may likely have followed to cause her to reach out and take the fruit. Our actions are nearly always predicated by our thoughts.

If I see the sky overcast before I go out, I'll likely think to myself, "hmm, it may rain. I'd better carry an umbrella." When I'm driving, I may think to myself, "I've never seen the police enforcing the speed limits in this area and everyone else seems to be going a little faster than the speed limit. Let me go just a little faster." Or I may see a lot of other drivers going a little faster and think to myself, "Oh, those folks are looking for trouble and not obeying the speed laws." And look down and double check that I'm on or below the speed limit.

They say that curiosity killed the cat. It may well have ruined God's perfect creation as well. So, the question is: Is it really good for us to be so curious about the natural world around us? After all, that's what science is all about. We're curious to know things. The how and why that makes things the way they are. Of course, often times in searching out the answers for these questions we find things out that we believe are beneficial for us to know. We invent things because of this curiosity. Not all bad, but...

Regarding this issue, it seems obvious to me that this seeking of knowledge is the foundation of why we now, as a people, believe in evolutionary and old earth theories. In the case of Eve, she misunderstood the evidence. She thought the fruit was good and enjoyable and even took it to Adam and gave it to him to eat. She had no idea that the real result of her actions was that she had just signed her death warrant. Do we really understand what the real result of our similar thirst for knowledge is?

God bless you.
In Christ, Ted

miamited said:

Hi colter,

I can't speak for others, but for me, I don't ignore the many layers of fossils within the sediments. What I discount is the explanations that we are given as to 'how' they got to be there. Even you allow they may be the result of a flood, although you believe that they are the result of many floods. The question that we all have to answer is: What is the truth?

If we believe the Scriptures, there is only one flood spoken of with the coverage that would put fossils near the tops of mountains. If we believe, I guess, some of the testimonies that you have apparently found, then we are likely to believe as you believe. But, what is the truth? For me, the only written record of history that I know that I know to be the truth, are the Scriptures.

The accounts found throughout various cultures where one might think that there were many floods all came from the same family, according to the Scriptures. They originated either by the accounts given through Shem, Ham, Japheth, their wives and Noah and his wife. That's if we believe the Scriptures account that only eight people made it through the flood and, of course, it's highly unlikely that as the flood waters rose that some who drowned were busily scribbling down an account of the flood as the waters rose around them to be found later by these civilizations. But that all depends on what authority we allow for the Scriptures within our own minds and hearts.

God bless you.
In Christ, Ted

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You are right about the scripture, it teaches a 6 day, young earth creation, then God killed everybody and everything except a 600 year old Jewish ancestor and his family along with every living thing that, after a year of waiting for the water to disappear, rapidly repopulated the earth. It teaches that Noah's descendants became other races.

Returning now to the real world outside of scripture, the reason that seashells are found on top of mountains is because those mountain peaks used to be ocean floor before being elevated over long periods of time by way of the process of subduction.

ScottA said:

So, then, as you see it, do those men have providence over what is said of the truth of God as it is handed down from generation to generation...or does God?

You have already suggested that God does not have providence, nor is in control, and that sinful, stumbling men have had their way with history according to them. Therefore, I must disagree...for God is indeed, in control of [all] things.

If that does not describe your position...then please explain.

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Specifically, God delegates authority in his Son and his Sons, Sons, all the way down to the inhabited worlds.

You have a belief that God dictated the Bible through Moses and that has been kept inviolate from then until today. I do not believe that. But theoretically, IF that was Gods way, then yes, it would be perfect, inerrant, take it or leave it.


I have children, I love them dearly, they have free will. I don't control everything they say, do and think. I hope for their future.

Colter said:

Specifically, God delegates authority in his Son sand his Sons, Sons, all the way down to the inhabited worlds.

You have a belief that God dictated the Bible through Moses and that has been kept inviolate from then until today. I do not believe that. But theoretically, IF that was Gods way, then yes, it would be perfect, inerrant, take it or leave it.


I have children, I love them dearly, they have free will. I don't control everything they say, do and think. I hope for there future.

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Where do you draw that conclusion from, how did you arrive at it?

miamited said:

Hi hieronymus,

Well, let's discuss this point of view. Why did Eve eat the fruit?

She was curious. She wanted more knowledge than God gave her. She saw the fruit, that it was pleasing to the eye and likely said to herself, "I wonder what it's like?"

Now, I hate to go to this place, but I feel compelled to offer this as an explanation. The reason I hate to go to this place is that I just know without a doubt there be an uproar against me and claims that I'm some fundamentalist, head in the sand believer, but...

What is science? It is man's gathering of evidence to find explanations for the natural that God hasn't given us. People say that God gave us a mind and expected us to use it. Really? Isn't that exactly what Eve did? She studied the fruit and questioned how it could be so pleasing and wanted to get the answer to her question.

Yes, we live in a world that enjoys a lot of seemingly wonderful things that the various sciences have given us, but...

Is that really why God created us? That He wanted us to spend all our time and devote all our attention to trying to figure out how everything works? I'm not so sure.

God bless you.
In Christ, Ted

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The real sin of Eve, that people often miss, is that she disobeyed Gods instruction. Its just that simple. WE do this today, by not obeying the apostles instruction. We instead get involved in worldly disputes over politics and science, and we divide ourselves over that and over religious denomination as well. THe simplicity in Christ is that we live simple holy lives, free from all that contentious strife and division. However, some have taken liberty too far and created their own doctrine, and others have not taken that liberty far enough and have created their own doctrine. Its because we love the world, and it blinds us, and we create doctrine that makes Gods command (to be holy), void through our traditions

ScottA said:

Where do you draw that conclusion from, how did you arrive at it?

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The Bible books and the Urantia Book.

Hoghead1 said:

Yes, Ted, but the problem is that you are presenting only man's wisdom, your POV, about how God works and what Scripture really is about. . . . .

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But the trouble with that statement is, clearly YOUR posts are ALSO a man's wisdom and point of view about how God works and what Scripture really is about, and therefore your posts may be subjected to evidentiary testing.

Extraneous said:

And now satan controls this fallen world. Why would we want to follow its fallible theories then? Dont you see that ToE is yet another deception from the enemy? This world is deceived by the enemy, and thats why they misinterpret data. They cannot see clearly, because their love is for this world, not the next, and not for God. All men are deceived and only Christ can open our eyes. Even Christians get deceived. There is only one way, and that is to forsake our love for this life, and to seek the one to come.

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I don't believe for a second that our Father in heaven would ever create a world and allow a rebel to have the kind of control that some people believe he had or has now. In my theology Satan and the other evil ones were defeated, Christ Michael won the "war in heaven" while incarnate on earth as Jesus of Nazareth. They have been removed. And when they were here they NEVER had the power to invade a persons will against their will. Demons were just little rebel angels that got into unstable people and caused fear. Soooooooooooooooooooooo much of what people blame on the devil is their own willful behavior!!!!!!!!!!!

Satan is a cigar butt!!!! He along with the others had become Atheist.

Colter said:

I don't believe for a second that our Father in heaven would ever create a world and allow a rebel to have the kind of control that some people believe he had or has now. In my theology Satan and the other evil ones were defeated, Christ Michael won the "war in heaven" while incarnate on earth as Jesus of Nazareth. They have been removed. And when they were here they NEVER had the power to invade a persons will against their will. Demons were just little rebel angels that got into unstable people and caused fear. Soooooooooooooooooooooo much of what people blame on the devil is their own willful behavior!!!!!!!!!!!

Satan is a cigar butt!!!! He along with the others had become Atheist.

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God cast satan down to earth, and he is still here. The scriptures teach us to resist satan and he will flee. We resist him by resisting our love for this world because thats the power of satan, and we instead focus on heaven, where Christ is. The scriptures say we have died and our life in hidden with Christ in God. (Colossians 3) If you believed scripture, instead of leaning on your own understanding, you might see this.

Colter said:

I don't believe for a second that our Father in heaven would ever create a world and allow a rebel to have the kind of control that some people believe he had or has now. In my theology Satan and the other evil ones were defeated, Christ Michael won the "war in heaven" while incarnate on earth as Jesus of Nazareth. They have been removed. And when they were here they NEVER had the power to invade a persons will against their will. Demons were just little rebel angels that got into unstable people and caused fear. Soooooooooooooooooooooo much of what people blame on the devil is their own willful behavior!!!!!!!!!!!

Satan is a cigar butt!!!! He along with the others had become Atheist.

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I'm not sure where you got the idea that the devil and the other fallen angels have been neutralized. It seems like your theology is whatever makes sense to you, and not the clear teachings of Scripture. Could it be that you are deceived by him whom you believe to be defeated?

Now look at what the Bible says. (BTW, Satan is not an atheist. He knows God exists, but he just hates Him.)

The devil tries to interfere with people being saved:

Luke 8:11–12 (NKJV)
11 “Now the parable is this: The seed is the word of God. 12 Those by the wayside are the ones who hear; then the devil comes and takes away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved.


1. The devil and his fellow fallen angels wage war against Christians:

Ephesians 6:10–18 (NKJV)
10 Finally, my brethren, be strong in the Lord and in the power of His might. 11 Put on the whole armor of God, that you may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil. 12 For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this age, against spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places. 13 Therefore take up the whole armor of God, that you may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.
14 Stand therefore, having girded your waist with truth, having put on the breastplate of righteousness, 15 and having shod your feet with the preparation of the gospel of peace; 16 above all, taking the shield of faith with which you will be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked one. 17 And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God; 18 praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, being watchful to this end with all perseverance and supplication for all the saints—

2 Timothy 2:24–26 (NKJV)
24 And a servant of the Lord must not quarrel but be gentle to all, able to teach, patient, 25 in humility correcting those who are in opposition, if God perhaps will grant them repentance, so that they may know the truth, 26 and that they may come to their senses and escape the snare of the devil, having been taken captive by him to do his will.

1 Peter 5:8 (NKJV)
8 Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil walks about like a roaring lion, seeking whom he may devour.


2. The devil is permitted to test the faith of some through applying suffering and persecution. He did this with Job (see Job 1) and Peter (Luke 22:31). He has to ask permission from God, though.

Revelation 2:10 (NKJV)
10 Do not fear any of those things which you are about to suffer. Indeed, the devil is about to throw some of you into prison, that you may be tested, and you will have tribulation ten days. Be faithful until death, and I will give you the crown of life.


3. Not only does he deceive the whole world, he accuses the brethren until the point here in Revelation when he will be expelled from heaven permanently.

Revelation 12:9–12 (NKJV)
9 So the great dragon was cast out, that serpent of old, called the Devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world; he was cast to the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
10 Then I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, “Now salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of His Christ have come, for the accuser of our brethren, who accused them before our God day and night, has been cast down. 11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb and by the word of their testimony, and they did not love their lives to the death. 12 Therefore rejoice, O heavens, and you who dwell in them! Woe to the inhabitants of the earth and the sea! For the devil has come down to you, having great wrath, because he knows that he has a short time.”


4. The devil will be shut up so he should deceive the nations no more for a thousand years, but this won't happen until Jesus returns (Revelation 19):

Revelation 20:1–3 (NKJV)
20 Then I saw an angel coming down from heaven, having the key to the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand. 2 He laid hold of the dragon, that serpent of old, who is the Devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years; 3 and he cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal on him, so that he should deceive the nations no more till the thousand years were finished. But after these things he must be released for a little while.

5. And he will go to his place in the Lake of Fire, but this hasn't happened yet.

Revelation 20:7–10 (NKJV)
7 Now when the thousand years have expired, Satan will be released from his prison 8 and will go out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle, whose number is as the sand of the sea. 9 They went up on the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city. And fire came down from God out of heaven and devoured them. 10 The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

Colter said:

The Bible books and the Urantia Book.

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Sure sounds like you have gone from the frying pan to the skillet (from one human problem as you describe it, to another source of human knowledge). Good luck.

Extraneous said:

The real sin of Eve, that people often miss, is that she disobeyed Gods instruction. Its just that simple. WE do this today, by not obeying the apostles instruction. We instead get involved in worldly disputes over politics and science, and we divide ourselves over that and over religious denomination as well. THe simplicity in Christ is that we live simple holy lives, free from all that contentious strife and division. However, some have taken liberty too far and created their own doctrine, and others have not taken that liberty far enough and have created their own doctrine. Its because we love the world, and it blinds us, and we create doctrine that makes Gods command (to be holy), void through our traditions

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Hi extraneous,

Yes, Eve disobeyed Gods instruction. But why? I just have a hard time believing that Eve just woke up one day and determined in her heart that she just wanted to disobey God. No. There's a thought process behind her decision and it isn't likely that she just said to herself, "I want to disobey God." It is this thought process that I'm seeking. I believe that it is very similar to our same thought processes that make us desire to know everything.

God bless you.
In Christ, Ted

Hi colter,

You wrote:

Colter said:

He along with the others had become Atheist.

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Correct me if I'm wrong please, but doesn't the atheist say in his heart that there is no God? I don't think that Satan believes in his heart there is no God. He just thinks he can be on the same level as God.

God bless you.
In Christ, Ted

Look, EastCoast, personal attacks, such as you just sent me in 1853 are totally inappropriate in a theological discussion.

miamited said:

Hi extraneous,

Yes, Eve disobeyed Gods instruction. But why? I just have a hard time believing that Eve just woke up one day and determined in her heart that she just wanted to disobey God. No. There's a thought process behind her decision and it isn't likely that she just said to herself, "I want to disobey God." It is this thought process that I'm seeking. I believe that it is very similar to our same thought processes that make us desire to know everything.

God bless you.
In Christ, Ted

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I suppose that would agree with what i mentioned about obeying the apostles instructions, which teach us to flee from worldly contentions and strife, and to live quiet and peaceful lives. Contentions come through divisions in politics, denominations, science and other such things, it seems. WE are supposed to let our conduct be without covetousness and contention, because the Lord is our help. There is no need to worry about politics or anything that would cause contention, covetousness, and division. Desiring to know more, to have more and to have power, these things cause all those unspiritual flesh works. However, to let God be in control of all things, this is how we bear fruit and not walk in the flesh.

Hoghead1 said:

Look, EastCoast, personal attacks, such as you just sent me in 1853 are totally inappropriate in a theological discussion.

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Look Hoghead, you are guilty of that as well. Its good to remain civil, i agree, but you are not guiltless are you?

Extraneous said:

ToE is a fallible theory, not the holy truth of mans origin. Calling ToE reality is like calling unfinished work finished. Its like taking a huge jigsaw puzzle, with half the pieces missing, and pieces from other puzzle mixed in as well, and saying it is complete

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TOE is a scientific finding, it's not a holy truth, its merely true. Its like taking a huge jigsaw with half the pieces missing, getting most of them put together, and having therefore a good idea what the rest of the pieces looked like. The YEC crowd would be like an onlooker saying those pieces that are matched together can't really match together it just looks like they matched together.

Also, EastCoast, yes, the purpose of science is to test out all beliefs. That includes what one believes about Scripture. Now, you believe Scripture is an inerrant geophysical witness. Well, is that belief valid or not? As far as Scripture being an accurate geophysical account no, it isn't valid. My conclusion is that Scripture is not a book of science, does not use any scientific language, and was not intended by God to be a geophysical witness. Is science greater than Scripture? In terms of geophysics, yes. But that is in unfair compassion, as Scripture, as I just said, is not intended to be a work in science. Pitting Scripture against science is abuse of Scripture.