Why do Christians entertain atheists?

[ChristCameBackFromTheDead]

The majority of the debates and discussions I see are atheists against Christians. Why?

I've been through many stages of life. I went through many years being an atheist and just over all rejecting the glory of Him. There was nothing anyone could tell me that would change my mind other wise. As "deep" and "complex" as I wanted to appear, I was not open minded in the least to divinity. It was self pride that prevented me from really asking myself the truth. I was angry, that anger was directed towards mainstream Christianity. I nit picked every wrong action every Christian did and used that as a representation towards Christ.

I also believe the majority of mainstream Christians are doing it wrong, horribly wrong.

What benefit do we as Christians get from debating with atheists? Is it not clear that their heart is hardened with self pride? Are they coming to you with a general desire to understand what you believe and why? They are coming to refute you, to embarrass you, degrade you, and ultimately turn you away from your faith.

Brothers and sisters, why?

Do not be yoked together with unbelievers. For what do righteousness and wickedness have in common? Or what fellowship can light have with darkness? "2 Corinthians 6:14"

I understand our goal is to turn sinners into believers, but shouldn't we first ask ourselves if the person we are talking to is willing to have an open mind towards what you are saying? What their intent is? We should pray before we enter into such debates and find out if it's for the glory of God.

 

[prov1810]

What benefit do we as Christians get from debating with atheists?

A good discussion is its own reward. What the other person takes away from it is beyond my control and it's not my business.

The Bible says that we should always be prepared to give an answer (1 Pet. 3:15) and that means we have to say something.

 

[Eudaimonist]

It was self pride that prevented me from really asking myself the truth. I was angry, that anger was directed towards mainstream Christianity. I nit picked every wrong action every Christian did and used that as a representation towards Christ.

You should not assume that all atheists are just like you were.

What benefit do we as Christians get from debating with atheists?

Hopefully, it is so that you realize what I had just mentioned above!

They are coming to refute you, to embarrass you, degrade you, and ultimately turn you away from your faith.

That is not why I am here. I have no intention to convert anyone away from Christianity, and I don't have the first clue about how that is even possible.

I am not here for evil purposes. Yes, I debate philosophical issues, but I am more here to allow for greater mutual understanding and to remove the stigmas that atheists often have, especially in American society.


eudaimonia,

Mark

 

[ChristCameBackFromTheDead]

eudaimonia[/I],

Mark

What stigmas do atheists have in American society?

 

[HerCrazierHalf]

I think it depends on the atheist /agnostic you are talking to. I can't speak for all nonbelievers but truth of it is that many aspects of the faith make no sense to me but at the same time i find our fascinating that you choose to our feel compelled to believe.

Now, discussing or debating your faith respectfully is probably a good thing for believers. I suppose conversion of a believer from another faith is more realistic but at the very least it gets the believer to think about why his faith has certain dogma and decide if it makes sense to them.

Wouldn't you agree that defending or explaining your faith strengthens it?

Also, it sounds like you ate describing "New Atheist" whom have a stated goal of ridiculing or working to the elimination of religion. I'm not that kind of atheist/agnostic but they seem to be the more vocal ones in the same way that Westboro most likely doesn't represent you but they are very vocal.

 

[Freodin]

What Mark / Eudaimonist said: that is not why I am here.

Over the years, I have come to find many reasons for talking to or debating with Christians.

One of them, as I just in this thread have found out again, was to find this very special Christian who makes the claim "I have been an atheist before! I have been like you!"... where I can really say "Yes, I can see that. You have been like me."

I have never claimed to understand Christians, and I cannot really say what kind of people they were "before".

But I can say, with complete honesty, to all these - including you: if you claim to have been an atheist like I am, you are wrong.

As long as you don't understand that, as long as you keep talking about your position instead of adressing mine... you will get me wrong.

 

[Eudaimonist]

What stigmas do atheists have in American society?

For example, that they are amoral and untrustworthy.

Study: Atheists distrusted as much as rapists ? USATODAY.com


eudaimonia,

Mark

 

[ChristCameBackFromTheDead]

Wouldn't you agree that defending or explaining your faith strengthens it?

Prayer strengthens me.


My debates with atheists are very brief. If they are sincerely asking me about Christ, my spirit weeps with joy at informing them of how much God loves them.

If they want to have a debate about timelines and carbon dating, I don't participate.

 

[ChristCameBackFromTheDead]

For example, that they are amoral and untrustworthy.



eudaimonia,

Mark

Ok, I don't need to even click on the link, I'm already laughing at how absurd that is.

Some of the nicest people I've ever met are atheists, with solid wordly moral compasses.

 

[Freodin]

Ok, I don't need to even click on the link, I'm already laughing at how absurd that is.

Some of the nicest people I've ever met are atheists, with solid wordly moral compasses.

But nonetheless all these nice people with their solid moral compass are "wicked", aren't they?

You know what that term means, don't you?

 

[ChristCameBackFromTheDead]

What Mark / Eudaimonist said: that is not why I am here.

Over the years, I have come to find many reasons for talking to or debating with Christians.

One of them, as I just in this thread have found out again, was to find this very special Christian who makes the claim "I have been an atheist before! I have been like you!"... where I can really say "Yes, I can see that. You have been like me."

I have never claimed to understand Christians, and I cannot really say what kind of people they were "before".

But I can say, with complete honesty, to all these - including you: if you claim to have been an atheist like I am, you are wrong.

As long as you don't understand that, as long as you keep talking about your position instead of adressing mine... you will get me wrong.

I'm sorry, but I don't think I ever claimed to address your position?

There is a strong possibility that I was never an atheist like you. You could have a completely different set of beliefs than I had.

My post was looking for responses from Christians and what they got out of it. Possibly even for my own guidance on if I should engage in these debates for a higher purpose.

It probably did sound a bit caustic, because I am only reflecting on my own time as an atheist and what my mindset was.

************************************************

For me to label you as wicked is difficult because I am a wretched person of this world who does not deserve His grace. I still have wordly perspectives so I would find it hard to find someone to be wicked without doing something wicked in actions.

Someones disbelief in Him is doing so against an eternal God, that perspective would be VASTLY different from my own.

 

[agua]

The majority of the debates and discussions I see are atheists against Christians. Why?

I've been through many stages of life. I went through many years being an atheist and just over all rejecting the glory of Him. There was nothing anyone could tell me that would change my mind other wise. As "deep" and "complex" as I wanted to appear, I was not open minded in the least to divinity. It was self pride that prevented me from really asking myself the truth. I was angry, that anger was directed towards mainstream Christianity. I nit picked every wrong action every Christian did and used that as a representation towards Christ.

I also believe the majority of mainstream Christians are doing it wrong, horribly wrong.

What benefit do we as Christians get from debating with atheists? Is it not clear that their heart is hardened with self pride? Are they coming to you with a general desire to understand what you believe and why? They are coming to refute you, to embarrass you, degrade you, and ultimately turn you away from your faith.

Not all Christians are suited for apologetics and if you feel that debating with a non believer hinders your faith it's best to avoid it. Imo though it tends to strengthen faith rather than hinder it because, as Prov1810 noted, being able to defend your faith is important.

Brothers and sisters, why?

Do not be yoked together with unbelievers. For what do righteousness and wickedness have in common? Or what fellowship can light have with darkness? "2 Corinthians 6:14"

Being yoked together implies a relationship of like mindedness or common goal imo. ( a closeness akin to to oxen pulling the plow side by side etc ) Debating/discussing or even socialising with atheists doesn't imply being yoked together. Paul said in 1 Cor 5 that we shouldn't associate with people who are caught in unrepentant sin that call themselves brethren, but allows that we need to associate with unbelievers else "for then must ye needs go out of the world."

1Co 5:9-11 KJV I wrote unto you in an epistle not to company with fornicators: (10) Yet not altogether with the fornicators of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or with idolaters; for then must ye needs go out of the world. (11) But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.

I understand our goal is to turn sinners into believers, but shouldn't we first ask ourselves if the person we are talking to is willing to have an open mind towards what you are saying? What their intent is? We should pray before we enter into such debates and find out if it's for the glory of God.

Yes we need to assess every situation on its merit and pray pray pray. Remember though we can only plant and water; Yahweh does the "turning sinners into believers" bit.

1Co 3:6-8 KJV I have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase. (7) So then neither is he that planteth any thing, neither he that watereth; but God that giveth the increase. (8) Now he that planteth and he that watereth are one: and every man shall receive his own reward according to his own labour.

 

[ChristCameBackFromTheDead]

Thank you agua for that post. It truly does give me a different view point on His word.

I think I came into this being judgmental based off who I was as an atheist.

I think the better question should be, what are atheists trying to receive from a debate with a Christian?

 

[keith99]

The majority of the debates and discussions I see are atheists against Christians. Why?

I've been through many stages of life. I went through many years being an atheist and just over all rejecting the glory of Him. There was nothing anyone could tell me that would change my mind other wise. As "deep" and "complex" as I wanted to appear, I was not open minded in the least to divinity. It was self pride that prevented me from really asking myself the truth. I was angry, that anger was directed towards mainstream Christianity. I nit picked every wrong action every Christian did and used that as a representation towards Christ.

I also believe the majority of mainstream Christians are doing it wrong, horribly wrong.

What benefit do we as Christians get from debating with atheists? Is it not clear that their heart is hardened with self pride? Are they coming to you with a general desire to understand what you believe and why? They are coming to refute you, to embarrass you, degrade you, and ultimately turn you away from your faith.

Brothers and sisters, why?

Do not be yoked together with unbelievers. For what do righteousness and wickedness have in common? Or what fellowship can light have with darkness? "2 Corinthians 6:14"

I understand our goal is to turn sinners into believers, but shouldn't we first ask ourselves if the person we are talking to is willing to have an open mind towards what you are saying? What their intent is? We should pray before we enter into such debates and find out if it's for the glory of God.

Bolding mine

You do realize that Paul was writing that in response to those who claimed one must become a Jew (including circumcision, a rather painful process for grown man) before they could be Christians, don't you?

Or do you?

Seems to me Paul was speaking against the very attitude you are displaying here.

 

[agua]

Thank you agua for that post. It truly does give me a different view point on His word.

I think I came into this being judgmental based off who I was as an atheist.

I think the better question should be, what are atheists trying to receive from a debate with a Christian?

I think the better question should be, what are atheists trying to receive from a debate with a Christian?

Yeah and this is tricky. Some atheists are determined to stir up trouble and mock etc but Jesus told us to expect that. I don't think we're called to be mind readers but we are called to react in a peculiar way.

Mat 10:16 KJV Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves: be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves.

 

[ChristCameBackFromTheDead]

Bolding mine

You do realize that Paul was writing that in response to those who claimed one must become a Jew (including circumcision, a rather painful process for grown man) before they could be Christians, don't you?

Or do you?

Seems to me Paul was speaking against the very attitude you are displaying here.

This is the very thing I was worried about with having debates with atheists.

"Or what harmony has Christ with Belial, or what has a believer in common with an unbeliever?" 2 Corinthians 6:15

Is the following verse.

 

[Somber Warrior]

You do realize that Paul was writing that in response to those who claimed one must become a Jew (including circumcision, a rather painful process for grown man) before they could be Christians, don't you?

I'm afraid I would have to disagree with you on that point. Corinth was a Greek city, and there were several Jews there, but not many, if any at all, who made the claim you attribute as Paul's motivation.

Paul was actually writing about the vastly diverging cultures commonly come upon in Corinth. well known for its wild lifestyle. It was a major seaport (nearby at Lechaion) and a crossroads of the northern Mediterranean. The Middle Eastern practice of sacred prostitution in pagan temples was readily accepted in such a climate, as well as in some of the Greek temples that stood there in the first century. The church at Corinth faced the difficulty new converts there had in living out Christianity ethically in everyday actions. This concept of boundaries and order in terms of everyday living was a good way to illustrate the ethical demands of relationship with God without resorting to legalism.

A second major problem that Paul is addressing is the problem of spiritual pride that had led some in the community to pervert Paul's teaching about spiritual freedom. Paul maintained that we have freedom in Christ, that relationship with God is not a matter of obeying law but of the motivation of love from the heart. Yet some Corinthians had taken that to the point of maintaining that nothing they did mattered since they were free from the law, which directly contravenes the concept of God-inspired and imbued love. They concluded, what their body did had nothing to do with their relationship with God since that was a "spiritual" matter. Paul had already addressed this issue quite strongly throughout the first letter, especially the implications of their libertine views in sexual matters that included sacred prostitution.

It addresses a broader sexual subject that marriage, but adultery/fornication, particularly in light of the propensity for the Corinthians to attempt to mix worship of God with the pagan rituals many of them came out of when they came to Christ in faith. It in essence blended faith in Christ with paganism, or unbelief. In that respect, I believe the poster has some valid point in that those solidly committed to atheism will "practice" what they do not believe and ridicule our faith with impunity, and in so doing are putting up a barrier to the Gospel that an attitude of debate will not overcome.

The truth must be spoken in love.

 

[PsychoSarah]

What stigmas do atheists have in American society?

I hope you are joking? Depending on how religious of an area you live in in the U.S., you can actually end up being run out of the community should people find out you are an atheist. #2 most hated group in the country, only recently dethroned at number one by the Tea Party.

 

[ChristCameBackFromTheDead]

I hope you are joking? Depending on how religious of an area you live in in the U.S., you can actually end up being run out of the community should people find out you are an atheist. #2 most hated group in the country, only recently dethroned at number one by the Tea Party.

I've never heard of anything like that happening... if anything I thought it was becoming more socially acceptable to not be a Christian.

Understand that I believe that a large percentage of "American Christianity" is comparable to new age self help classes. If the majority of Americans are Christian as they say, then this country would be a lot different. Christianity has always been used by the higher ups to obtain social status.

My position is that even though you do not believe in Him, I still love you and would never condemn you.

Also, atheists are usually tied to anti status socialism which threatens the American money making machine.

 

[bhsmte]

Thank you agua for that post. It truly does give me a different view point on His word.

I think I came into this being judgmental based off who I was as an atheist.

I think the better question should be, what are atheists trying to receive from a debate with a Christian?

Could be various things:

-the simple enjoyment from intellectual discussion of varying views
-the discussion of scientific evidence that explains realities about our universe and world we liven in
-an understanding of why the Christian believes as they do and an understanding of why the non-believer does not believe as the Christian does

If we are talking about a fundamentalist Christian, who believes in young earth creation, the debate is likely going to be driven by well evidenced realities about our world and how that relates to a young earth creation view. Since most Christians are not of the young earth creation ilk and they agree with the theory of evolution, some of the debates then revolve around specific biblical interpretations, etc..

Keep in mind, when we are talking about fundamentalists Christians, there are just as many debates between this group and atheists, as there are between fundamentalists Christians and other Christians who don't hold this view.